College Degree First?

[Pious_Mat]

If you are certain about your vocation (as certain as you can be), why waste time in college? Even a Catholic College is still “the world” as opposed to religious life, and the world is full of temptation. Also, why rack up degrees that you don’t need? If you join the FSSP seminary, you will study according to the traditional arrangement–that is, “college” seminary, where you study philosophy, is in the same building as the theological seminary, so going to a Catholic college first is pointless. The Legion of Christ provides 10 or so years of some of best education in the Catholic world, so a degree before joining them is even more pointless. Having an extra degree won’t make you a better priest, won’t make you holier, and will put more debt to your name, and will stall you from pursuing your destiny.

Imagine being ordained at 26 instead of 36. That’s ten years of Masses, ten years of confessions, ten years of spiritual direction, inspiring people, comforting people, and serving Christ. Ask an old priest what he wouldn’t give for ten extra years of saving souls! And you’ll be just as qualified at 26 as 36. In fact, you are probably better suited to the seminary now. Seminary life, especially at the FSSP, is based on the Trent model, which is designed for young men. Sometimes older guys have a hard time. I know of several Legion of Christ seminarians who entered in their thirties and just couldn’t handle it.

My spiritual Director is a Legionary, and he told me that he simply doesn’t see the point in pursuing a college degree before entering seminary. I don’t buy the “back-up” argument. That’s not what Christianity is about. What if Peter had said to Our Lord, “Sure I’ll follow you, but only in a few years, after I have an engineering degree.” Our Lord probably would have said “Come follow me now, Let bridges mend themselves.” Remember, let the dead bury the dead.

Also, remember that if you’re going to join the Legion of Christ, their formation is 10+ years. Guys who enter at 18 are usually ordained at 29 or 30. Entering the Legion at 30 or so means ordination at 40 at the very least. That’s a long time to wait!

I suggest you read Time and Eternity by Father Marcial Maciel, LC. It talks about how we have so little time here on Earth, and we need to make wise choices, and follow God’s will, not ours. You should get your Dad to read it too.

Surrender yourself to Christ, and Good things will happen. If you’re called, you need to start studying for the priesthood–unless you don’t feel ready, of course–that’s another story. But if you’re ready, go for it!

God Bless,

Mat.

 

[chicago]

In fact, you are probably better suited to the seminary now. Seminary life, especially at the FSSP, is based on the Trent model, which is designed for young men. Sometimes older guys have a hard time. I know of several Legion of Christ seminarians who entered in their thirties and just couldn’t handle it.

I may be getting slightly off topic, but could you elaborate, please as to the “Trent model” and how/why this is the case, kindly?

 

[Pious_Mat]

I may be getting slightly off topic, but could you elaborate, please as to the “Trent model” and how/why this is the case, kindly?

The concept of the Catholic seminary was born during the Council of Trent, and was created in large part by St. Charles Borromeo. St. Charles’ model, which is the “traditional” seminary model, involves young men living in the seminary (a closed community for the most part) for seven or eight years under semi-monastic conditions (rigorous prayer, some physical exercise, intellectual formation), first in spirituality, then in philosophy, and then in theology. There is generally little freedom. Traditionally, superior’s even read Seminarian’s mail, as is done at the LOC seminaries to this day. It is a demanding lifestyle that those who have been on their own in the world sometimes have a hard time adjusting to.

In the late 19th and 20th centuries, especially in the United States, the concept of the “cellege seminary” in which one did one’s philosophy studies at college while living like a seminarian (though certainly not in the strict conditions imposed in the wake of Council of Trent), became popular, especially in North America. Since V2, seminaries have continued to be less and less monastic (not that that is good or bad). The FSSP and other orders, however (particularly traditionalists) follow this Tridentine ideal of a rather monastic seminary.

Over the years, this model became increasingly directed at young men (most joined around 17 or 18), who are still youngsters. Hence they could not be treated the way a 30 year old could. This was standard. Even 50 years ago, entering at 22 would have been considered a “late vocation”. Hence the model itself seems almost biased toward youth. That’s not to say that older guys can’t be successful–a lot of men are ordained as old as 60, and do really well–but from what I’ve heard, it’s tough on them, especially in these traditional seminaries. The FSSP doesn’t accept applicants over 35, and the Legion, 40.

The “College Seminary” model is much more suited to older vocations, as they can be eased into seminary life, but for orders with that all-in-one traditional Tridentine formation, it can be an absolute shock after years of living in the world.

Hope this helps. I’m not an expert, but St. Charles Borromeo is my favourite saint, so I’ve read quite a bit about how he established seminary formation, and created a model for it.

Mat.

 

[Schnitz]

Thanks a lot Mat for your opinion. I will take a look at Time and Eternity by Fr. Maciel. Also, thank you for your explanation of the beginnings of the seminary, which was interesting.

 

[iviking]

I agree with you, in so far as applying immediately. But, in any case, he will need to complete college before attending major seminary. College is not optional. The only option is whether or not to be in a seminary program while attending college.

God Bless

College is the same as university, right? It is not required to enter FSSP’s seminaries. I don’t know with other seminaries.

 

[iviking]

The reason I recommend you start now, if that is what you feel the Lord is asking of you, is that I wanted to apply last year, but didn’t do so out of various reasons, and I took a year of “teaching studies” which isn’t where my head have been at all. It is hard to get motivated, when you really know what you want to do. It’s kind of like waiting on Christmas, all year long. Look at the Apostles, they left everything and followed Our Lord!

 

[Schnitz]

College is the same as university, right? It is not required to enter FSSP’s seminaries. I don’t know with other seminaries.

Right. You are also right about it not being required to enter FSSP seminaries, as well as the Legion of Christ. From what I understand, a college degree is required in most, if not all, diocesan seminaries. Also, in some orders you don’t have to have a degree to enter them and become simply a monk, nun, brother, etc., but you do have to have one to go on to become a priest.

 

[Schnitz]

It is hard to get motivated, when you really know what you want to do. It’s kind of like waiting on Christmas, all year long. Look at the Apostles, they left everything and followed Our Lord!

Very true. I feel that the Lord is calling me now, but my dad says that He will still be calling in 10, 15, 20 years down the road. While that is true, at the same time why wait if I know now? I don’t know what else to say to my dad. It is kind of frustrating.

 

[iviking]

Right. You are also right about it not being required to enter FSSP seminaries, as well as the Legion of Christ. From what I understand, a college degree is required in most, if not all, diocesan seminaries. Also, in some orders you don’t have to have a degree to enter them and become simply a monk, nun, brother, etc., but you do have to have one to go on to become a priest.

Look at St. Vianney e.g. The Patron Saint for Priests. He had a hard time learning what he had to in seminary. If a college degree was required, he would never have been able to enter. If you start applying now, I think you will be able to enter next year. If you are in doubt as to which society you are called to, you ought to visit them soon.

 

[Johndigger]

Do whatever your spiritual director says.

 

[Schnitz]

Do whatever your spiritual director says.

Well he says that I should enter a military academy, and then I should make a decision before I am committed to the military (i.e. owe them years, money, whatever). I think that if I went to the USAFA, after my second year there I owe them x number of years if I want to leave. Personally, though, I think that I would be entering an Academy only to leave, which isn’t a viable reason to enter it in the first place. Nor is that fair then to someone else who really did want to go to an Academy but didn’t get the chance because I went instead.

 

[bilop]

Very true. I feel that the Lord is calling me now, but my dad says that He will still be calling in 10, 15, 20 years down the road. While that is true, at the same time why wait if I know now? I don’t know what else to say to my dad. It is kind of frustrating.

If you are certain, you should pursue it now. Get a spiritual director, contact your diocese vocation director and start discerning seriously.

Tell you father, that you are sure this is what you are called to do, and there will be ample time (8-9 years) before ordination for continued discernment.

If you are inclined to compromise with him, agree to get a college degree, while fufilling your theology/philosophy requirements. You can still live in a seminary environment while attending college.

May God Bless you and your vocation abundantly!

 

[Johndigger]

Well he says that I should enter a military academy, and then I should make a decision before I am committed to the military (i.e. owe them years, money, whatever). I think that if I went to the USAFA, after my second year there I owe them x number of years if I want to leave. Personally, though, I think that I would be entering an Academy only to leave, which isn’t a viable reason to enter it in the first place. Nor is that fair then to someone else who really did want to go to an Academy but didn’t get the chance because I went instead.

I understand your enthusiam for wanting to “get to seminary”, I myself have the same desire and I am also young. I’m not sure about going to university, either.

However, many Saints became Saints by listening to the advice of their spiritual directors. God is talking to your through your spiritual director. Do what he says and be content that you are doing God’s will.

God will guide you.

I will pray for you.

In Our Lord,

JD

 

[Schnitz]

May God Bless you and your vocation abundantly!

Thank you Bilop! Please pray for me and my parents. You are in my prayers.

 

[bilop]

Well he says that I should enter a military academy, and then I should make a decision before I am committed to the military (i.e. owe them years, money, whatever). I think that if I went to the USAFA, after my second year there I owe them x number of years if I want to leave. Personally, though, I think that I would be entering an Academy only to leave, which isn’t a viable reason to enter it in the first place. Nor is that fair then to someone else who really did want to go to an Academy but didn’t get the chance because I went instead.

I agree with you. If you are not serious about a military career, and have little intention of graduating and serving, you are basically stealing money (service academies are very costly) from the government, and depriving someone else of a slot who is serious about a military career.

Why not enter a college seminary and get your BA that way, while you continue to discern?

God Bless

 

[Schnitz]

I understand your enthusiam for wanting to “get to seminary”, I myself have the same desire and I am also young. I’m not sure about going to university, either.

However, many Saints became Saints by listening to the advice of their spiritual directors. God is talking to your through your spiritual director. Do what he says and be content that you are doing God’s will.

God will guide you.

I will pray for you.

In Our Lord,

JD

Please do JD. My director is a Christian Brother, and he is a very nice man. We haven’t gotten to talk too much, because I just recently approached him. I will listen to him. Please pray that I have patience, and that I do the right thing. Know that I will also be praying for your vocation. Yours in Christ, JT

 

[Schnitz]

Why not enter a college seminary and get your BA that way, while you continue to discern?

I have already suggested this to my father, but he won’t pay for a college education so that I can then “just become a priest.”

 

[bilop]

I have already suggested this to my father, but he won’t pay for a college education so that I can then “just become a priest.”

Then you may have to go on without his financial support.

I did a quick Google search on “college financial aid for seminarians”

Here are two references I came up with from two highly regarded college seminary programs.

scs.edu/offices/financial-aid.htm

No man interested in Saint Charles Borromeo Seminary should hesitate to apply because of financial circumstances. The Financial Aid Services Office will help make it financially possible for an applicant to enroll.

ny-archdiocese.org/seminary/st-john-neumann-residence/general-information-and-application/

Tuition:
College students who enter the Neumann Program continue to assume the responsibility of financing their college education. However, college students who attend Fordham, Iona, Manhattan and St. John’s University receive a substantial reduction in their tuition as a donation to the Archdiocese from the respective schools. There is no cost for the courses you take at the Residence as a college graduate.

Both indicate there is substantial financial aid available for seminarians. I also know the K of C and the Serrans help seminarians financially.

I do not think this should be a barrier for you. If you have a vocation, God will provide.

If you were to attend Neumann (I don’t know where you diocese/order of choice sends college seminarians), I know the vocations director for NY, and would be willing to help you personally.

God Bless

 

[Schnitz]

Then you may have to go on without his financial support.

I did a quick Google search on “college financial aid for seminarians”

Here are two references I came up with from two highly regarded college seminary programs.

scs.edu/offices/financial-aid.htm

ny-archdiocese.org/seminary/st-john-neumann-residence/general-information-and-application/

Both indicate there is substantial financial aid available for seminarians. I also know the K of C and the Serrans help seminarians financially.

I do not think this should be a barrier for you. If you have a vocation, God will provide.

If you were to attend Neumann (I don’t know where you diocese/order of choice sends college seminarians), I know the vocations director for NY, and would be willing to help you personally.

God Bless

Thank you very much Bilop. You seem very knowledgeable about this. I have/will continue to look into both of those links. The Neumann Program looks like it would be very beneficial, and would provide me some more time to truly discern my vocation while I get a college degree. As far as your help with the vocations director of NY goes, if you don’t mind, I would really appreciate it. However, if I could first talk things over with my dad, and then get back to you, that would be amazing. Again, I can’t thank you enough for the links above. Yours in Christ, JT

 

[bilop]

Thank you very much Bilop. You seem very knowledgeable about this. I have/will continue to look into both of those links. The Neumann Program looks like it would be very beneficial, and would provide me some more time to truly discern my vocation while I get a college degree. As far as your help with the vocations director of NY goes, if you don’t mind, I would really appreciate it. However, if I could first talk things over with my dad, and then get back to you, that would be amazing. Again, I can’t thank you enough for the links above. Yours in Christ, JT

Of course, take your time. You should probably talk to your diocese vocation director first, unless you were specifically interested in NY.

God Bless