College refusal - where do we go from here?

[anp1215]

You said earlier that he scored a 1925 on the SAT? That’s not a bad score at all. I think you are estimating, because I think the scores go by 10s. That’s like the 90th percentile. The average score is 1509. It surprises me that he earned this score on the SAT but you say his grades are not great.

And his score on the reading/math was 1260…the average is 1016. That’s about the 85th percentile.

Those are good scores. Just so you know.

 

[Corki]

Well, unfortunately, more was revealed late last night after I asked him to show me the offer from UT…he started scrambling around on the computer, typing things in, clicking around, etc. and then started expressing surprise because the website for UT was asking him to submit his essays!! “What???” he feigned shock over this. More typing and clicking, and exasperated noises.

As if he could fool me into thinking there was some mistake. I knew immediately that he had never completed the UT application process. He had counted so much on getting into A&M that he gambled everything and lost. I was so disappointed, I can’t even tell you. He is sorry for the lies and the decision not to complete the on line application, but it does no good now. He has missed the deadline to apply for UT, and while I doubt that he would have been admitted to Austin, he really may have been offered San Antonio.

My heart is so heavy today. I still have to tell my husband, I could not do it last night or this morning. He is going to be extremely disappointed about this, and could get very angry at our son for his dishonesty. I don’t know whether we should also tell his guidance counselor - of course our son doesn’t want us to tell anyone, because he is ashamed of himself, but maybe the counselor will have some way to get him considered even at a later date. However it does not speak well of his character…in many ways.

It is incredible how much he can hobble himself with his character defects. Yet all lies come to the surface eventually and then the consequences are experienced.

I just don’t know what will happen from here on out. Most likely scenario now is community college from home. What a shame.

If A&M is still his dream, some of the Texas community colleges have reciprocity agreements with A&M. In any case, you already have an appointment set with the counselor at Strake. You may as well lay all the cards on the table for him and your son to work out a plan.

Sorry this is happening now.

 

[Corki]

No, HE needs to contact the college and find this out. Not his mom.

No, HE needs to contact the college and ask about transfer requirements. Not his mom.

No, HE needs to call the college and ask if changing to a different major would make a difference. Not his mom.

And, finally, HE needs to call and ask about wait-listing. Not mom.

While it is true this young man needs to step up and take responsibility for his process, the process has really become almost impossible to work alone while being in school full time. My nieces’ public school even has a for-credit class where the students are able to make all their calls and send email during the working hours of the admissions officers and a teacher to help them sort it all out. Other schools employ full time staff who do nothing but work the system for the students. What a change from when I was in school! My parents didn’t do anything with my applications other than write a check for the application fee. My counselor’s total contribution was sending my transcrips and writing one recommendation. Now many schools not only require a complex mix of applications, essays and test scores but they may have multiples. For example, some Texas schools use the Common application PLUS the Apply Texas application PLUS a supplemental ap for the specific school PLUS essays that must be completed separately.

I do some test prep work and am working with a young man who is applying for addmission to the service academies. One day I spent over three hours on the phone with various people trying to get a question answered for him. There’s no way a full-time student could do that during working hours.

Off my soap box now.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It is really, really hard when you find out a kid has been lying to you; I’m sorry. That combined with the college stuff has to be a major blow.

When I look at all the things your son has been doing put together – applying to only one college, dropping grades, doing badly on the SAT – he’s sabotaging himself. He doesn’t have to be explicitly saying “I am going to keep myself from going to college”; all he has to do is not-quite-get-around-to the things that he knows he has to do. He succeeded.

So the question is why? It’s easy to tell yourself “laziness” (I once did, in a different situation). In the end, after a lot of pain, it turned out my son had severe social anxiety and was being bullied in school. What I thought was the problem – not getting work done, not turning it in – was a symptom; it wasn’t the real problem at all.

I’m not saying your son is the same as my son; far, far, FAR from it. I am wondering if it would be useful for your son to go, not just to the college counselor, but to a family counselor. The reason I’m suggesting this is that your son might choose to sabotage himself again, if he doesn’t confront the reasons he did it this time. Once you know the reasons, your son can deal with them. It’s useful to confront the deep behaviors, not just the results.

Hang in there.

Actually his grades have improved TREMENDOUSLY this year, he’s been on the honor roll twice, and has kept his grades As & Bs and one C. But last year, he was still seeing his girlfriend until they broke up in November, and then it was a slow crawl back to self-confidence from that heartbreak. He really, really wanted A&M and said he prayed EVERY NIGHT, told God that was all he wanted, and God said “no.” The decision not to finish the UT application was stupid, it’s true. He said he still doesn’t want to go there, but the point is, he should have at least done it and not lied about it.

But overall, in spite of this disappointment, the really bad times are over. He is still immature for his chrono age, as this decision and the lies demonstrate. I mean, why lie? Why not just say, “Mom, Dad, I really do not want to go to UT in any case, I don’t even want to waste the time to apply, but I need at least one more college to apply to, is there something you approve of?”

We both love him so very much but we don’t understand his motives at all! He lies when nothing is at stake - he wasn’t going to get in any trouble if he chose not to apply, that would be his choice - but he needed another college or two to apply to in that case.

I really don’t want to spend any more money on therapy, I feel what he needs is someone who can kick him in the butt and tell him to get on the ball and take responsibility for himself. If the guidance counselor isn’t that person, then maybe the Dean of Students or the Admissions Director, or the Principal. Someone has to care enough to take this on - we as his parents are unable to help him get this done.

 

[Sugabee43]

Cupofkindness,

Yes, he’s at Strake. I have emailed his counselor but not gotten a response yet. Yes, they are on spring break. We let our son have some responsibility for himself this year and tried to keep hands off the process…he didn’t want us involved, so we aren’t sure what his counselor has done/not done. We really haven’t been helicopter parents, which is partly why his grades have been so low. You know how hard Strake is. That was my wrong assumption, also what we have been told all along, that the colleges count a Strake GPA differently than public schools. Seems not to be true.

Well, his mood isn’t bad today, and he’s going to talk to Mr. Roman and his counselor. Mr. Roman has been such a good friend and guide to him all through, I hope he will have some reassurance. We do need a plan and last night things looked rather black, but today there is some light around the edges.

I never thought about re-taking the SAT and ACT. He can do it if he wants to. He is alternating between cussing A&M out for not wanting him, and coming up with new ideas. Which is exactly what any normal person would be doing.

I love him SO MUCH.

Juliane,

We are closer together than we think!!! We should get together!

 

[kbachler]

Well, unfortunately, more was revealed late last night after I asked him to show me the offer from UT…he started scrambling around on the computer, typing things in, clicking around, etc. and then started expressing surprise because the website for UT was asking him to submit his essays!! “What???” he feigned shock over this. More typing and clicking, and exasperated noises.

As if he could fool me into thinking there was some mistake. I knew immediately that he had never completed the UT application process. He had counted so much on getting into A&M that he gambled everything and lost. I was so disappointed, I can’t even tell you. He is sorry for the lies and the decision not to complete the on line application, but it does no good now. He has missed the deadline to apply for UT, and while I doubt that he would have been admitted to Austin, he really may have been offered San Antonio.

My heart is so heavy today. I still have to tell my husband, I could not do it last night or this morning. He is going to be extremely disappointed about this, and could get very angry at our son for his dishonesty. I don’t know whether we should also tell his guidance counselor - of course our son doesn’t want us to tell anyone, because he is ashamed of himself, but maybe the counselor will have some way to get him considered even at a later date. However it does not speak well of his character…in many ways.

It is incredible how much he can hobble himself with his character defects. Yet all lies come to the surface eventually and then the consequences are experienced.

I just don’t know what will happen from here on out. Most likely scenario now is community college from home. What a shame.

Yes, but (hopefully) with the light shown on him, he’ll kick himself enough. Sit down and talk, hubby too. Ask him if he feels good about this. Ask him how to correct it. Make him make good decisions in front of you, and then help him carry them out. If need be, send him out of the room from time to time so you and hubby can talk and make joint decisions.

Good luck. But put it on him and keep it moving positively.

 

[In_Training]

don’t worry, things won’t be as difficult as you fear they will be.

i’m sure there are community colleges in your area or in neighboring counties. in my experiences, community colleges are more accepting, less expensive, and more accommodating than universities who are only interested in a select group of cookie cutter students. financial aid is more readily available too and easier to get than at universities. not that you will automatically qualify, necessarily, but community college is generally much more accessible than 4-year universities. they have a bad rep for not being “real schools,” but many people find that what they learned in “real school” (trigonometry, japanese 101, etc) is not as relevant as the knowledge taught in community colleges, most of which tend to focus on actual vocational skills (mechanic, paralegal, real estate, accounting, etc). i’m sure your son can get enrolled at a CC. from there, he may even find that he has the opportunity to transfer to a 4-year university if he wishes. getting bad grades does not mean you’re dumb or hopeless…there are many things it can mean, like maybe he’s simply a different kind of learner that slipped through the cracks, or he was negligent with his classwork.

as for mentioning that he has ADHD, please do not let that get in the way of him pursuing higher education. colleges are required to be just as accessible to people with disabilities as they are to people without disabilities. it’s not that those with disabilities can’t do something, it’s just that they have to do it a different way. please do not make your son feel like he is inferior or less capable just because he has a few obstacles. he does not have “character defects” but perhaps has made mistakes or been careless with college applications. so he didn’t get into the one college he wanted to go to, so what? there are others! and he will get over it. when you hit a brick wall sometimes you have to make an unexpected left turn to keep going straight. and i agree with another poster - it is perfectly normal for someone to ask for a little help making the transition to a new school (those applications can be frustrating), but in the end your son is the one who should be making the moves to get into school. if he is not doing this and is making no effort, maybe he’s trying to tell you that this isn’t something that he wants or feels is right for him at this time. there is probably a reason that he was dishonest with you about the work he’s been doing (or not been doing) to get into schools. and if he doesn’t end up going to college now, that doesn’t mean he can’t in the future - if ever there was a time to go back to school later in life while working and raising kids, it’s now - it was probably a lot harder, if not impossible, to do this as recent as 30 or so years ago. colleges are accessible more now than ever, so even if he doesn’t get into his favorite school, i’m sure he will be able to find one that is similar. although, if he is having such problems just finding the discipline to complete the application process, perhaps he won’t be willing to sit through semesters and semesters of bookwork and research papers!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

although, if he is having such problems just finding the discipline to complete the application process, perhaps he won’t be willing to sit through semesters and semesters of bookwork and research papers!

Yep, that is what we are very concerned about. He wants the easy way out - to have stuff simply drop into his lap, without any effort on his part. That is what it seems to us, from the outside, from things he says.

But as the days go by and reality sinks into all of us, he has done nothing else to try and remedy the situation. He thinks he deserved to get into A&M. Well, hate to break it to ya sunshine, but you really didn’t. He thinks his counselor has been useless. What will you bet me that when we go see his counselor tomorrow, we get told that our son blew him off most of the year? He thinks he’s “going somewhere” with his music. Really? Because 30 people downloaded a song you wrote? 30 people? And you think you are “going somewhere.” Uh-huh.

He is a puzzle to me. I don’t understand why he keeps saying “no” in effect, to everything we suggest. I guess he’s really just not interested enough to do what it takes, and maybe that is a blessing - we won’t invest a lot more in his education only to have him walk away. If and when he’s ready, he can pay his own way, like I did. And if he doesn’t go to college, he is going to work full-time and pay rent and expenses. No freeloading off mom and dad.

 

[kbachler]

LOL. He says no to your suggestions because they’re YOUR suggestions. Prior to age 21 (and even a bit later), the human brain - particularly the male brain - goes through a number of physical changes. He has an immature brain, and he’s developing an identity. Given him your rules - what you require - (For example - no school - he pays rent -less than what he can find a room for anywhere of course - what are the hours, etc.) and let him make decisions. When you want to make suggestions, offer multiple perspectives, and make sure he knows that its his decision in the end. If he needs finacial help, negotiate for what you need.

I’d also ask him if he thinks he is ready for college. It seems to you that this process has been a challenge, his grades are a challenge - so does he think he is ready? Again - be supportive - if he’s ready you’ll support him. If not, what can he do to get ready? (One of the learning centers - Huntington, Sylvan, etc. for example.)

Don’t be afraid to get some professional guidance for YOURSELF – its a challenging time and if you are concerned about doing the wrong thing, this may help you make good decisions with respect to him.

Best wishes, RJ. As he matures and deals with real life, you will become so much smarter.

 

[cjmclark]

Yep, that is what we are very concerned about. He wants the easy way out - to have stuff simply drop into his lap, without any effort on his part. That is what it seems to us, from the outside, from things he says.

But as the days go by and reality sinks into all of us, he has done nothing else to try and remedy the situation. He thinks he deserved to get into A&M. Well, hate to break it to ya sunshine, but you really didn’t. He thinks his counselor has been useless. What will you bet me that when we go see his counselor tomorrow, we get told that our son blew him off most of the year? He thinks he’s “going somewhere” with his music. Really? Because 30 people downloaded a song you wrote? 30 people? And you think you are “going somewhere.” Uh-huh.

He is a puzzle to me. I don’t understand why he keeps saying “no” in effect, to everything we suggest. I guess he’s really just not interested enough to do what it takes, and maybe that is a blessing - we won’t invest a lot more in his education only to have him walk away. If and when he’s ready, he can pay his own way, like I did. And if he doesn’t go to college, he is going to work full-time and pay rent and expenses. No freeloading off mom and dad.

My wife and I have agreed that when our son turns fourteen, we are going to sit him down and let him know that he has 4 years to figure out what to do. He can (in no particular order):

1.) Earn scholarships and go to college.
2.) Qualify for student loans and go to college.
3.) Join the military.
4.) Learn a trade and get a skilled labor job.
5.) Find menial work somewhere, if he has absolutely no motivation to do any of the other options.

Any way, he’s moving out at age 18. I think that we (especially in the US) have developed this notion that everyone’s entitled (in fact, practically required) to go to college and then get a job, which has (especially in recent years) been met with a swarm of kids going to college and then moving back home with mom and dad to “figure things out” because they didn’t get the job they wanted right out of the gate. While college grads are Occupying parks and government buildings, we have a skilled labor shortage that is almost unprecedented.

I recently read a pretty good zinger. One of the Occupy crowd said that when he was a kid growing up, he was always told “Make good grades and get into a good school, or else you’ll wind up working at McDonald’s!” After he graduated and didn’t get a job, he joined the Occupy movement, where he was mocked while protesting for thinking that he was too good to work at McDonald’s. Makes you think.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Oh, and sorry about the terminology I used, “character defects.” Everyone has them, but at age 18, it’s more difficult to sort out what is just pure ignorance/stupidity and what is a true character defect. And, at 18, you haven’t gotten into as many ruts as you might later on, so any habits/defects can be addressed more easily.

The term does not mean that you are stuck with that problem, and it is not as much a problem with your character as it is a quality that you struggle with. You might call it your “sinful nature.” Or your bad habits.

My greatest character defects right now are:

Laziness
Procrastination
Perfectionism
Negativity

All of which I work on, daily. None of which are like a birth defect that cannot be changed.

 

[Corki]

You know how hard Strake is. That was my wrong assumption, also what we have been told all along, that the colleges count a Strake GPA differently than public schools. Seems not to be true.

I am not sure how much this will help you at this juncture but I have a junior and have talked to a LOT of college admissions people in the last year and a half. What they told you about GPA is partially true. Most private colleges and many public ones (especially out of state) use multiple “fudge factors” when looking at GPA. They take the actual number and revise it depending on two main things - rigor of schedule and strength of curriculum. The former is a measure of how challenging the student’s classes were compared to what was offered. The latter is a measure of how hard the school itself is. So Strake students get a lot of consideration in the “strength of the curriculum” category.

BUT, not all schools use this weighting and I don’t know of any of the state schools in Texas that do. The only weighting that most TX state schools use is the extra point for AP and honors classes.

Along those same lines, you may want to check out some small private colleges in nearby states. They often have very generous aid packages. One girl I know (top 10%, automatic to all the TX schools) is going to a private college because their aid package made it cheaper than a state school and they didn’t qualify for any of the “need based” aid. One school we visited had an automatic scholarship (I think it was $7500) for anyone with a high school GPA of at least a 3.5. Since these smaller schools are often not as “full” as the big name schools, they might not only still take applications but also have some aid available.

Just some info that might be helpful when you meet with the counselor. Good luck!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am not sure how much this will help you at this juncture but I have a junior and have talked to a LOT of college admissions people in the last year and a half. What they told you about GPA is partially true. Most private colleges and many public ones (especially out of state) use multiple “fudge factors” when looking at GPA. They take the actual number and revise it depending on two main things - rigor of schedule and strength of curriculum. The former is a measure of how challenging the student’s classes were compared to what was offered. The latter is a measure of how hard the school itself is. So Strake students get a lot of consideration in the “strength of the curriculum” category.

BUT, not all schools use this weighting and I don’t know of any of the state schools in Texas that do. The only weighting that most TX state schools use is the extra point for AP and honors classes.

Along those same lines, you may want to check out some small private colleges in nearby states. They often have very generous aid packages. One girl I know (top 10%, automatic to all the TX schools) is going to a private college because their aid package made it cheaper than a state school and they didn’t qualify for any of the “need based” aid. One school we visited had an automatic scholarship (I think it was $7500) for anyone with a high school GPA of at least a 3.5. Since these smaller schools are often not as “full” as the big name schools, they might not only still take applications but also have some aid available.

Just some info that might be helpful when you meet with the counselor. Good luck!

Thanks, Corki, for the further info. If that is true, about the GPA not being weighted, then Strake has lied to us for nearly 8 years.

We are willing to consider in-state schools, but we feel that sending him to a private college would be rewarding him for bombing out in high school. We’ve already invested a ton of money in his education, only for him to get to this point and blow it. Grrrrrrr…

My husband is not willing to do more than an in-state school or community college.

 

[anp1215]

Thanks, Corki, for the further info. If that is true, about the GPA not being weighted, then Strake has lied to us for nearly 8 years.

We are willing to consider in-state schools, but we feel that sending him to a private college would be rewarding him for bombing out in high school. We’ve already invested a ton of money in his education, only for him to get to this point and blow it. Grrrrrrr…

My husband is not willing to do more than an in-state school or community college.

Colleges and universities definitely take the high school into consideration when looking at GPA. I don’t know if they use any hard and fast formulas, but they do take it into consideration. As in, a 3.5 GPA from Strake or The Woodlands means more than a 3.5 from Wheatley or Yates.

 

[faithfully]

Just wrote a long response and deleted.

I just got turned down for 2nd grade by 2 CATHOLIC schools. My kids are having a very hard time with their reading. Probably ADD… working with a pedi soon.

2nd (*&)(%&@)(#@%@#^!!! grade

This is insane. I was furious and really upset my children are being denied a Catholic education. They are totally grades focused! however, I’m happy they were honest enough to let me know the kids would FAIL in their environment.

Your son would fail in the environment he applied to. Most likely. At least based on past performance. So what does he need to do? He needs to go to a JC. He needs to figure out how to be qualified. Then DO IT. It will be hard. Does he have it in him? If so, he can do. If not, he needs to pick a new school.

You’re a good mama bear! I understand your pain and frustration on so many levels!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Just wrote a long response and deleted.

I just got turned down for 2nd grade by 2 CATHOLIC schools. My kids are having a very hard time with their reading. Probably ADD… working with a pedi soon.

2nd (*&)(%&@)(#@%@#^!!! grade

This is insane. I was furious and really upset my children are being denied a Catholic education. They are totally grades focused! however, I’m happy they were honest enough to let me know the kids would FAIL in their environment.

Your son would fail in the environment he applied to. Most likely. At least based on past performance. So what does he need to do? He needs to go to a JC. He needs to figure out how to be qualified. Then DO IT. It will be hard. Does he have it in him? If so, he can do. If not, he needs to pick a new school.

You’re a good mama bear! I understand your pain and frustration on so many levels!

Wow, the school is kicking your kids out in 2nd grade? Well, they probably put it more politely than that, but still…“We don’t feel that our environment is the best thing for Johnny and Mary…blah blah blah…” You’re right, it’s best to know that up front but we always feel our kids’ rejections like they were our own. Have you thought about home schooling? ADHD kids can do really well on their own - they can learn the way THEY need to and aren’t locked into a 7 hour school day (not their natural schedule).

Tonight, my husband’s father was over for dinner. He talked to our son, and since the two of them have a bond, our son listened. Our son actually brought up,“worst case scenario, I go to community college.” Now, I know and you know that is NOT the worst case scenario, but up to this point, he has not even wanted to allow that option. Then he also said he would apply to the University of Houston, which is my final alma mater. (I transferred twice before I finally finished my BA.) It would mean he would stay here for however long…(which has some real disadvantages for hubby and me!) but at least he is considering some options rather than just saying “No” to everything.

He also said he was going to talk to his counselor this week, maybe as soon as tomorrow.

I think Paw-Paw’s little pep talk helped him a lot, which is good, because Paw-Paw has a lot of making up to do for some of the other stuff he’s done.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Okay, I am struggling with this situation.

My husband has done extensive traveling over the last 2 years, being gone 2 weeks and back 2 weeks. When he was gone, he was mostly unavailable, and when he was here, he was getting ready to leave again. He actually would have stayed overseas but he had to limit his time over there or he’d have had to pay their taxes.

I know that I dropped the ball when it came to our son’s college plans. I didn’t follow up enough with him, I didn’t get enough information about what his chances were to attend the university he wanted, I didn’t make him go to any campus visits. I basically didn’t do anything. I asked him from time to time how things were going and was there anything else he needed to do, but I believed that he had a decent chance of getting admitted, so I was pretty relaxed about the whole process.

I know it’s ultimately his responsibility but I can’t help feeling sick and heart and guilty that I let him down again. EVERYONE’S parents are involved these days, helping their kid with everything, and when I didn’t, look at the result.

I don’t even know for sure if A&M is the right place for him - we didn’t go and look at any other campuses. He has seen UT and one other campus when we took his brother around, but none just for himself. How would he know when he didn’t consider anything else?

What do you do when you feel you have let your kid(s) down? When you feel that you could have done better, but didn’t?

 

[Irishmom2]

TRJ,

I know you have heard this before, but stop beating yourself up about this. You really do need to see that your son had a hand in all of this too.

But, no more blaming or taking credit for failures from anyone. Just gather together your forces and move on from here. As your son said, worse case scenario, he goes to community college and transfers. People do it all the time, and with great success. In the mean time, you take him around to see all the school you didn’t before.

And this time, you will ask what your son did and keep an eye on his progress, noting that he is in charge, but that you will definitely be breathing down his neck. And you know, perhaps this year at home will mature him more into a guy that will really be ready for some serious goal setting on his own.

Take a deep breath and remember to keep doing that!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I posted another thread about regrets. I have a lot, and I struggle with them. About my own life, and now especially about this son’s life. I’m in need of help.

Thanks for the kind words, Irishmom. Very much appreciated.

 

[Cupofkindness]

Juliane:

Young men are in a difficult place as high school juniors and seniors, and most of them are not inclined to seek advice from their parents. This is natural. God only knows why, but so be it. There are larger matters at stake here. Remember, the most important job your son has at this point in his life is separating himself from his parents, from his little boy ways, in a healthy fashion that lays down a good foundation for his future. Your most important job is to (sniff) let your baby go. So hard for us mothers to do so!

Juliane, listen. If you accept the blame, then how can he grow? If any teen is clever enough to log into a computer, solve a physics equation, or read classic greek literature, then they are capable enough to figure out the college application process. Let your son grow by allowing him to be responsible for this failure. Every parent can do more for their teen. Of course! And there is always that boy who allows his mom to do everything, and she gets him lots of $$$ in scholarships and he winds up at Harvard, and is a great guy. But that is a rare boy. I only know of one. The sooner you can stop blaming yourself, the faster your boy will mature because he will learn to sort out his own mistakes. Do not rob him of this important lesson!

Finally, I believe that Jesuit dropped the ball and if I were you, I would call the counselor this morning and set up an appointment for today. Don’t let any more time pass or wait on your son to do this. For this is also the time when the boys announce to their classmates where they were accepted, you don’t want this incident to turn into shame. Get a plan in action with the counselor and strongly encourage that counselor to work closely with your son, perhaps meeting once or twice a week until the situation is resolved. Remind the counselor that it was your son’s natural reticence or personal limitations that got him here in the first place, so he really needs the counselor to take a very active roll going forward. Just get that ball rolling and step back. I know you will be proud on graduation day, thank God for the wonderful gift you have in your son!