College refusal - where do we go from here?

[TheRealJuliane]

Cupofkindness, we are going today at 4 p.m. Yes, I think his counselor did drop the ball. He certainly wasn’t any sort of help that Jonathan could relate to. Maybe Jonathan blew him off too. But it’s his JOB to keep these boys on track for college. So yes, I am going to ask some very pointed questions and also pin him to a plan of action from now until May.

 

[Irishmom2]

Cupofkindness, we are going today at 4 p.m. Yes, I think his counselor did drop the ball. He certainly wasn’t any sort of help that Jonathan could relate to. Maybe Jonathan blew him off too. But it’s his JOB to keep these boys on track for college. So yes, I am going to ask some very pointed questions and also pin him to a plan of action from now until May.

Good for you, THJ. Tell them what’s done is done as far as blame, but you want to know what are they willing to do now?

Will say a prayer for you and your son.

 

[EasterJoy]

Cupofkindness, we are going today at 4 p.m. Yes, I think his counselor did drop the ball. He certainly wasn’t any sort of help that Jonathan could relate to. Maybe Jonathan blew him off too. But it’s his JOB to keep these boys on track for college. So yes, I am going to ask some very pointed questions and also pin him to a plan of action from now until May.

Do not be too hard on this counsellor. Someone could make the case that it is the PARENTS’ job to keep their college-bound children’s lives on track, that THEY are in the best place to keep track of what a student’s reticence and natural limitations might be doing to their admission processes, but the truth is that there gets to be a time when the training wheels come off and those who have not been careful in learning will lose some skin for their neglect. This is about your son’s future, he is old enough to take it into his own hands, or to bear the consequences for failing to do that, and the whole thing ought to be on your son’s plate.

It is the counsellor’s job to help students with the information they need to direct their own lives. He can’t keep them on track. He can only give them access and direction to keep themselves on track. If he gave your son bad advice about the importance of meeting deadlines or what was needed to get into college, that would be a counselling failure. If he simply didn’t dish up the information in a form that its intended target cared for, I think the intended target needs to wake up about whose “plan of action” is under discussion.

After all, he wants to be a college student. College students are expected to take charge of their own educations and their own career paths. College is the time for Mom and Dad to let go, save to make sure that as the “granting agency”, their money is not being squandered on a project that is making insufficient progress.

It’s your life and your dreams, Jonathan. What are you going to make of them?

 

[kbachler]

What do you do when you feel you have let your kid(s) down? When you feel that you could have done better, but didn’t?

I apologized, and owned up for the part that was my fault, but also pointed out that part of my job as a parent was to ensure that they understood and accepted the part that was their fault.

Then I ask “So any ideas how we get outa this mess?” and make them part of the solution.

 

[Irish_Girl_68]

I’m just going to pour out my heart and hope this thread helps someone else in a similar position.

Our son has had his struggles in high school. His grades were not stellar. He is at a difficult Jesuit college prep, and he’s got ADHD. He’s also gone through a rebellious phase where he wouldn’t listen to much we told him, but he turned that around after his girlfriend dumped him in the fall of last year. Unfortunately his GPA didn’t come up until this year.

He applied at 2 colleges, one of which he pretty much knew he wasn’t getting into. He didn’t apply out of state because of the cost - he has no chance of getting an academic scholarship and we are not in any category that would stand a chance of getting any other type of scholarship. He did his best on the SAT and we thought his score was pretty good. He didn’t take it a 2nd time.

Well, the college he had his heart set on has turned him down. There are things I would have done differently if I could go back and do them again, but now it’s too late. He is devastated, his pride is hurt, and he’s scared about what to do next.

My husband went through the English school system, and I didn’t start college until I was 25, and I went through community college first. We didn’t know all the ins and outs of applying, testing, etc. I guess that is no excuse but I feel that I have let him down pretty much his whole life, by just not doing things to help him. We have done the best we could but evidently, it hasn’t been enough.

Everyone has to go to college these days or there doesn’t seem to be anything else for them. He’s got a talent for music but not enough for something like Julliard - it’s not classical music or anything, not prodigy level.

He’s an average kid, and it seems no one wants an average kid anywhere. Even when I was searching for a military school or a boarding school, even THOSE places all said they wanted the “exceptional” students!!!

I feel like his school counselor failed him too. He put Biology as his major and someone said if he had just put General Studies or something really light, he might have gotten in. I can’t contact the school because it’s spring break. I want to do SOMETHING and I hate feeling helpless and hopeless.

Is it wrong to want your kid to catch a break? He’s got ADHD and celiac disease - both of which have impacted his life incredibly. He’s had his struggles but he’s come through difficult times and he’s an amazing guy now. He has a job, that he’s held for a year. He’s led 2 Kairos retreats and a freshman welcome retreat. He’s staying chaste.

I know I should have faith that God will take my son where he should go but I’m afraid for him. Where do we go from here? It seems too late to start applying anywhere else now. Community college? If he just starts working I fear that he will never go to college. And back to where I started - that everyone is expected to go to college now days, even people who will wash out after their first semester but the place they took is one he might have stayed in.

I feel that I have let him down.

You have not let your son down! You sound like a loving, concerned mother. I don’t have any particular advice or insight, but I will pray for your son. God Bless!

 

[kbachler]

In an attempt to add a bit of levity and give you a smile…

My husband went through the English school system, and I didn’t start college until I was 25, and I went through community college first.

OK, this could be completely off-base - but I suddenly pictured that your husband had an English accent, in Texas, wearing a cowboy hat, saying “Howdy y’awl”.

 

[HouseArrest]

I hope this doesn’t come across as rude or mean but I really don’t understand why you, or he, is this upset.

I understand the inital reaction. You and he thought he would get in and he didn’t. It’s his first choice of school and it was a disappointment.

First of all the school, even though he reaallly wants to go there, is a means to an end. It’s nice to go to a first choice school but in the end it is the degree a student is after and not the school. And I get it about A&M, I really do. I know it is a lifelong connection to others that went there, it is the school traditions, it is really an experience in and of itself. I know because I went to Penn State. We have the same connections and pride and lifechanging experiences. I can go anywhere in the world and scream out WE ARE and I’ll get PENN STATE. But in the end I was after an engineering degree and I could have gotten that a lot of places.

Second of all, he can possibly still go to A&M! What is the problem here? I know you and he are probably anxious if that can happen, but he’s never going to get there if he keeps pining away over what he didn’t get.

Third, many other things could happen to prohibit him from going to A&M. What if he got in and you got the financial aid package and you and he were asked to take out over $40,000 in loans every year? Would you kick yourself for working, not working, saving, not saving, the list goes on and on. This and other roadblocks happen to people all the time.

Have him, or you, or both of you, work on getting there another way. If it doesn’t work out, then maybe it’s really not for him and you just don’t see it. Maybe God is protecting him from something, I don’t know.

Like I said, I hope this doesn’t sound rude because I really don’t mean it to be. I really hope you can move on from this disappointment and move forward. You can write the same thing to me when I help my daughter figure out her college choices and I come on here with a problem. I am sure I will have one.

 

[SummerSmiles]

Do not be too hard on this counsellor. Someone could make the case that it is the PARENTS’ job to keep their college-bound children’s lives on track, that THEY are in the best place to keep track of what a student’s reticence and natural limitations might be doing to their admission processes, but the truth is that there gets to be a time when the training wheels come off and those who have not been careful in learning will lose some skin for their neglect. This is about your son’s future, he is old enough to take it into his own hands, or to bear the consequences for failing to do that, and the whole thing ought to be on your son’s plate.

It is the counsellor’s job to help students with the information they need to direct their own lives. He can’t keep them on track. He can only give them access and direction to keep themselves on track. If he gave your son bad advice about the importance of meeting deadlines or what was needed to get into college, that would be a counselling failure. If he simply didn’t dish up the information in a form that its intended target cared for, I think the intended target needs to wake up about whose “plan of action” is under discussion.

After all, he wants to be a college student. College students are expected to take charge of their own educations and their own career paths. College is the time for Mom and Dad to let go, save to make sure that as the “granting agency”, their money is not being squandered on a project that is making insufficient progress.

It’s your life and your dreams, Jonathan. What are you going to make of them?

Agree.

Those high school counselors have a LOT of students to guide. If the students have questions, it’s up to them to ask the counselors, and then the counselors can point them in the right direction. If the student doesn’t take the initiative to go to the counselor’s office and ask some good questions, the counselor doesn’t have to chase the student down and make sure they’ve got things under control. If the student doesn’t ask, the counselor will assume that means the student is taking care of what needs to be done.

This isn’t your fault. And unless the counselor was unable to answer your son’s questions or gave him bad advice, it’s not the school counselor’s fault either. The schools start talking about college applications early on; I believe it was sophomore year when I was there. Most kids had colleges picked out by the time they were juniors, and then senior year was just for doing the applications and tying up the loose ends. Your son has had plenty of opportunities to get his applications in. It’s risky to put everything into just one college, and your son has just learned that. Now it’s up to him to pick up the pieces and keep moving forward.

What’s done is done. He can’t go back and redo the whole process so that he can get in this time around. The important thing now is to help him get a plan so that he can figure out what he wants to do from this point forward. Whether that’s learning a trade, going to a community college for a year or two, or finding a different university will be up to him to decide. He can still get where he wants to go, he’s just going to have to find another way to get there. Don’t give up.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I hope this doesn’t come across as rude or mean but I really don’t understand why you, or he, is this upset.

I understand the inital reaction. You and he thought he would get in and he didn’t. It’s his first choice of school and it was a disappointment.

First of all the school, even though he reaallly wants to go there, is a means to an end. It’s nice to go to a first choice school but in the end it is the degree a student is after and not the school. And I get it about A&M, I really do. I know it is a lifelong connection to others that went there, it is the school traditions, it is really an experience in and of itself. I know because I went to Penn State. We have the same connections and pride and lifechanging experiences. I can go anywhere in the world and scream out WE ARE and I’ll get PENN STATE. But in the end I was after an engineering degree and I could have gotten that a lot of places.

Second of all, he can possibly still go to A&M! What is the problem here? I know you and he are probably anxious if that can happen, but he’s never going to get there if he keeps pining away over what he didn’t get.

Third, many other things could happen to prohibit him from going to A&M. What if he got in and you got the financial aid package and you and he were asked to take out over $40,000 in loans every year? Would you kick yourself for working, not working, saving, not saving, the list goes on and on. This and other roadblocks happen to people all the time.

Have him, or you, or both of you, work on getting there another way. If it doesn’t work out, then maybe it’s really not for him and you just don’t see it. Maybe God is protecting him from something, I don’t know.

Like I said, I hope this doesn’t sound rude because I really don’t mean it to be. I really hope you can move on from this disappointment and move forward. You can write the same thing to me when I help my daughter figure out her college choices and I come on here with a problem. I am sure I will have one.

There is very little someone can say here that I would take as rude or mean. I figure if I ask a question on a forum, I am accepting all opinions, including critical opinions. I really don’t just want people to soothe my feelings, I want TRUTH. It’s why I am a Catholic, after all. I crave the TRUTH.

And your post doesn’t qualify as even a little bit rude or mean. In fact, it is a very good point. I think I am the one who had this dream, even more than my son.

I am going to ask the counselor to ask our son, “What is your battle plan now?” And make sure he knows deadlines, etc. And then I am going to LET GO AND LET GOD! If it kills me.

 

[Irishmom2]

TRJ, remember:

Whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

TRJ, remember:

Whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger!

LOL, I have also heard it, “Whatever doesn’t kill you makes you MEANER!” LOL

Or,

“Whatever doesn’t kill you…doesn’t kill you.”

 

[Irishmom2]

LOL, I have also heard it, “Whatever doesn’t kill you makes you MEANER!” LOL

Oooo! I like that! But sometimes, it isn’t possible for some people to get meaner. Luckily, we don’t often run into them!

 

[petitfleur]

I don’t have advice really, just sending prayers your way.

 

[HouseArrest]

LOL, I have also heard it, “Whatever doesn’t kill you makes you MEANER!” LOL

Or,

“Whatever doesn’t kill you…doesn’t kill you.”

Funny!

I am glad I didn’t offend. I will pray for a great outcome for your son!

 

[faithfully]

Wow, the school is kicking your kids out in 2nd grade?

Well, they weren’t KICKED OUT… they just were not accepted. We’ve been in public school so far. And one is apparently still a possability. Depends on what happens over the summer. But yeah, it’s a crazy world we live in?

 

[In_Training]

i’d let it go. your son is an adult and you can’t force an adult to do anything. it sounds like he’s made his decision. if he asks for your advice you can give it to him, but it doesn’t sound like he wants it, and he is allowed to make his own decisions. we have 18 years to raise our kids and impart values in them so that when they grow up they will hopefully have the knowledge they need to make decisions on their own without help. if he doesn’t go to college, there’s nothing wrong with that! if 5 or 10 or 15 years from now he finds that he made a mistake and should have gone to college, no harm done - it’s pretty easy to go to college today unless you pick something like an ivy league and nothing else. a person can only be as successful as their options. maybe your son will learn for himself why he has been limiting himself. he has many options to be successful, and if he isn’t acting on any of them right now, that’s his choice and he’ll live with the consequences, good and bad. mommy can’t be making decisions for him forever. he’ll be just fine, and if he needs advice in the future, he’ll know exactly who to go to.

as for children being rejected from catholic grade schools…it happens. sometimes for good reasons (placement test scores, income, whether your residence is officially in the school district, no more spots left for new students this year), but sometimes for extremely prejudice ones. i know it seems like a catholic school should be one of the safest places in the world for children, but humans are flawed even in their attempt to do god’s work. in know it’s 2012 but prejudice still exists. not sure if that’s the case with the catholic schools in your area, but i do know of catholic schools in some states that won’t admit students based on color, marital status of the parents and family members, religion of family members, what kind of schools they went to in the past, etc… i know it’s illegal but if they don’t give you a real “reason” for turning you away then you can’t prove anything, right?

if your family is too “different” from the type of people they’re looking for, you also have to monitor your kids’ school days as well to be sure they are not being treated differently by teachers who do not like your kids. i’m not saying that’s the case, but it has happened to other families so it is a possibility. teachers can seem like the nicest people and then you realize that every time your kid comes home crying it always seems to be right after mrs. so-and-so’s class… i do think that kids are taught to be too sensitive these days but there is a line between your kid being sensitive and a teacher doing/saying extremely inappropriate things to your kids. if i have kids my personal preference would be to send them to public school and then teach them about religion myself when they come home.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

So we went to visit the guidance counselor yesterday afternoon.

First, he told us right off the bat that the offer from A&M wasn’t a bad one, but a very good one. That not everyone does get any offer, some people get a flat-out refusal. And that actually, his offer was much better than being offered the feeder community college in the next town over. If you go to the feeder community college, you must take the entire 2 years, so 45 credit hours. While you can take one course on the 4 year campus per semester, and go to sporting events, etc. the reality is that you are a community college enrollee for 2 full years, and transfer in as a junior.

The offer our son got was to go to a system branch school, maintain a B average and get at least a B in every class for ONE year, then transfer to the main campus. Now, that is a tall order for him, because his grades tend to be up and down, like most kids with ADHD, somewhat unpredictably. But ONE year is better than TWO years. He only has to take 4 classes per semester to fulfill 24 credit hours. If he works hard, he can do it.

These branches are farther away from home, it’s true, and some of them are in remote locations, but at least one is a viable choice. The campus is smaller than the main campus, with higher teacher to student ratios, so more attention and smaller freshman 101 classes.

If he accepts this offer, he doesn’t have to do anything else such as apply all over again, write any more essays, etc. Just accept, pick the campus, and get housing.

The other thing the counselor said is that a personal appeal might help his case. I am not going to count on this, but our son said he would be up for doing that. He has nothing to lose as long as he understands that it’s a long shot.

Next time something like this happens, I am going to remember to CHECK with a person who knows more than I do about what has happened, before I jump to a conclusion. I did not know that the offer our son got was actually better than the 2 year community college. I ASSUMED that was true. CHECK with the person who knows, in this case, the guidance counselor.

And the counselor was sorry to hear that our son never completed the application for the other college. He said he suspected something like that had happened, because everyone else had heard from the school long before that. But done is done, it’s too late now.

What we are doing is urging our son to go ahead and accept this offer, and pick a location he wants to at least look at. We will go visit. He has also applied to another state school, and we will go there as well. These are things I should have been doing with him in his junior year. But we didn’t. Anyway, we go from here. I have a lot of hope that things are actually going to work out for the best.

 

[Corki]

in know it’s 2012 but prejudice still exists. not sure if that’s the case with the catholic schools in your area, but i do know of catholic schools in some states that won’t admit students based on color, marital status of the parents and family members, religion of family members, what kind of schools they went to in the past, etc… i know it’s illegal but if they don’t give you a real “reason” for turning you away then you can’t prove anything, right?

.

I know this is getting off topic of this thread but I just need to chime in here. Other than race, none of the reasons you listed are illegal for Catholic school admission decisions.

 

[HouseArrest]

So we went to visit the guidance counselor yesterday afternoon.

First, he told us right off the bat that the offer from A&M wasn’t a bad one, but a very good one. That not everyone does get any offer, some people get a flat-out refusal. And that actually, his offer was much better than being offered the feeder community college in the next town over. If you go to the feeder community college, you must take the entire 2 years, so 45 credit hours. While you can take one course on the 4 year campus per semester, and go to sporting events, etc. the reality is that you are a community college enrollee for 2 full years, and transfer in as a junior.

The offer our son got was to go to a system branch school, maintain a B average and get at least a B in every class for ONE year, then transfer to the main campus. Now, that is a tall order for him, because his grades tend to be up and down, like most kids with ADHD, somewhat unpredictably. But ONE year is better than TWO years. He only has to take 4 classes per semester to fulfill 24 credit hours. If he works hard, he can do it.

These branches are farther away from home, it’s true, and some of them are in remote locations, but at least one is a viable choice. The campus is smaller than the main campus, with higher teacher to student ratios, so more attention and smaller freshman 101 classes.

If he accepts this offer, he doesn’t have to do anything else such as apply all over again, write any more essays, etc. Just accept, pick the campus, and get housing.

The other thing the counselor said is that a personal appeal might help his case. I am not going to count on this, but our son said he would be up for doing that. He has nothing to lose as long as he understands that it’s a long shot.

Next time something like this happens, I am going to remember to CHECK with a person who knows more than I do about what has happened, before I jump to a conclusion. I did not know that the offer our son got was actually better than the 2 year community college. I ASSUMED that was true. CHECK with the person who knows, in this case, the guidance counselor.

And the counselor was sorry to hear that our son never completed the application for the other college. He said he suspected something like that had happened, because everyone else had heard from the school long before that. But done is done, it’s too late now.

What we are doing is urging our son to go ahead and accept this offer, and pick a location he wants to at least look at. We will go visit. He has also applied to another state school, and we will go there as well. These are things I should have been doing with him in his junior year. But we didn’t. Anyway, we go from here. I have a lot of hope that things are actually going to work out for the best.

I believe another advantage to first year branch campus as opposed to CC is that the letter grades he earns will transfer, rather than just the credits. So if he went to CC for two years and transferred as a junior, his GPA in college would not exist, and would consist of 2 years worth of grades. At a branch campus, his A average (yes, that is what he is going to get, I can just tell) will follow him and there will be a cushion there.

 

[In_Training]

I know this is getting off topic of this thread but I just need to chime in here. Other than race, none of the reasons you listed are illegal for Catholic school admission decisions.

Thank you for clarifying! Obviously there are some reasons that are illegal but not all. I was just pointing out that there are a lot more factors at play when being considered for a Catholic school, more than most people would think. For example, when I was a kid one school turned me down even though I qualified in every other area, but my father’s brother’s daughter (all Catholic) married a man who was not Catholic, just Christian, and that for some reason heavily impacted my admission. I don’t want to go into it anymore since it is a little off-topic, but some people don’t realize that some Catholic schools are more accessible/open-minded in their admissions while others are extremely selective.