College refusal - where do we go from here?

[TheRealJuliane]

I believe another advantage to first year branch campus as opposed to CC is that the letter grades he earns will transfer, rather than just the credits. So if he went to CC for two years and transferred as a junior, his GPA in college would not exist, and would consist of 2 years worth of grades. At a branch campus, his A average (yes, that is what he is going to get, I can just tell) will follow him and there will be a cushion there.

Thanks for the nice statement about my son getting an A average! I know if he really sets his mind to it and stays on track, he will do it.

Not sure I quite understand your GPA/grades concern though. I do know that were he to get 2 years worth of credits elsewhere, if the time came for him to receive an honor at his final campus, he might not be allowed to receive, say, cum laude status. I was summa, 4.0 when I graduated, but since I had transferred a lot of credits into the university, I wasn’t allowed to receive that on my degree. But otherwise, my previous GPA did transfer, since it’s based on the grades themselves.

Are you saying that he would start from nothing if his CC grades transferred?

 

[CLMOM]

Hi

I was in similar situation woth my daughter. Her ACT score was not that great and in Ohio students have to pass a graduation test. She has not passed the Science portion but can still keep taking the test. Anyway, she applied to 3 colleges and was wait listed on one becasue of the OGT and not accepted at the second. She did however get into a small Catholic college in Ohio called Lourdes which is perfect for her. Keep looking and Trust in God. I am sure your son will find the right college. It sounds like he had come along way.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hi

I was in similar situation woth my daughter. Her ACT score was not that great and in Ohio students have to pass a graduation test. She has not passed the Science portion but can still keep taking the test. Anyway, she applied to 3 colleges and was wait listed on one becasue of the OGT and not accepted at the second. She did however get into a small Catholic college in Ohio called Lourdes which is perfect for her. Keep looking and Trust in God. I am sure your son will find the right college. It sounds like he had come along way.

Oh, he HAS come a long way! From almost complete rebellion at home, very up and down (mostly down) grades, and quitting church - to a young man who drives himself to school every day, has a part-time job that he does well, and who gets on the honor roll twice! You can go back and look at some of my previous threads if you want his whole history. He is one of the main reasons that I found this forum in the first place. His struggles drove me to my knees many times over the last 5 years. I learned much more than I wanted to about other family members as well. But back to now…

I am glad that your daughter has found the right school for her. Our son did decide to take the offer from the college to attend a branch and then transfer in after one year. He will have to earn at least a B in EVERY course he takes, which is a tall order, but thankfully, his school is actually a college preparatory, which means he is more prepared for the workload of college than many entering freshmen. That also explains his lower GPA - the school is TRULY difficult, even for very good students. Pity the main campus couldn’t give him enough credit for that, but never mind. Forward into the future!

 

[Irishmom2]

Forward into the future!

And no looking back!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

So our son came home from school yesterday after having met with his counselor and stated that he is going to accept the offer to attend the remote campus for 1 year. He said he does still want to be an Aggie (that’s what someone who attends Texas A&M is called, I guess I never said that clearly! ) and it’s not based on what his brother is doing.

He also confirmed that he will go and talk to an admissions official, either here or up at the main campus, and try to plead his case to be admitted there in the fall. He is fully aware that this is a long shot, but his counselor told him he should go ahead and try. In any case, it will be a growth experience for him and he really has nothing to lose by attempting to convince someone that he can get the “job” done.

But in the meantime, he will accept the offer to attend the branch, and we will go visit as well as start reserving housing, etc. I called the dietary director yesterday to see if they have accommodations in place for celiac disease. Unfortunately they don’t, but the director is aware of the condition since his BIL has it. And since this is a state school, they MUST accommodate celiac disease since it is part of the Americans with Disabilities Act. (ADA) We’ve never been able to use that before, since our sons have never attended a public school, but now we can push that issue if need be. The main campus of A&M has been evolving all through our older son’s attendance there, and now I would rate them quite highly for accommodation. Looks like we might be the pioneers at this branch campus, and be able to pave the way for future GF kids to have an easier time finding safe food. One thing we may have to push is getting him housing with access to a kitchen, especially if the cafeteria isn’t a safe option.

He couldn’t sleep last night, was up until 1:20 a.m. or so. Of course I heard him and woke myself up. He said he’s worried about what to say to the admissions official. I told him 1) write down everything that is in his brain so he doesn’t just mull over and over and drive himself nuts and 2) pray to the Holy Spirit to give him the right words.

I heard from a member privately that this thread had helped light a fire under his feet, and get his own son organized for the next couple of years. His son is a sophomore, so there is time, but the time does fly by and can catch you out if you aren’t paying attention. It’s the sort of thing that really needs a daily checklist and attention. What a complicated society we’ve created…But in any case, I am glad if our struggles/challenges can help others.

 

[kbachler]

So our son came home from school yesterday after having met with his counselor and stated that he is going to accept the offer to attend the remote campus for 1 year. He said he does still want to be an Aggie (that’s what someone who attends Texas A&M is called, I guess I never said that clearly! ) and it’s not based on what his brother is doing.

He also confirmed that he will go and talk to an admissions official, either here or up at the main campus, and try to plead his case to be admitted there in the fall. He is fully aware that this is a long shot, but his counselor told him he should go ahead and try. In any case, it will be a growth experience for him and he really has nothing to lose by attempting to convince someone that he can get the “job” done.

But in the meantime, he will accept the offer to attend the branch, and we will go visit as well as start reserving housing, etc. I called the dietary director yesterday to see if they have accommodations in place for celiac disease. Unfortunately they don’t, but the director is aware of the condition since his BIL has it. And since this is a state school, they MUST accommodate celiac disease since it is part of the Americans with Disabilities Act. (ADA) We’ve never been able to use that before, since our sons have never attended a public school, but now we can push that issue if need be. The main campus of A&M has been evolving all through our older son’s attendance there, and now I would rate them quite highly for accommodation. Looks like we might be the pioneers at this branch campus, and be able to pave the way for future GF kids to have an easier time finding safe food. One thing we may have to push is getting him housing with access to a kitchen, especially if the cafeteria isn’t a safe option.

He couldn’t sleep last night, was up until 1:20 a.m. or so. Of course I heard him and woke myself up. He said he’s worried about what to say to the admissions official. I told him 1) write down everything that is in his brain so he doesn’t just mull over and over and drive himself nuts and 2) pray to the Holy Spirit to give him the right words.

I heard from a member privately that this thread had helped light a fire under his feet, and get his own son organized for the next couple of years. His son is a sophomore, so there is time, but the time does fly by and can catch you out if you aren’t paying attention. It’s the sort of thing that really needs a daily checklist and attention. What a complicated society we’ve created…But in any case, I am glad if our struggles/challenges can help others.

If you have time, coach him. Play act. Be the official and just listen and have him state it. Also try a couple of lines on him so that he can listen.

If the official says no - which he probably will - your son needs to be able to hear it, and respond gracefully and positively. In this way the ACT of going and having the discussion itself will be a positive so that - in the future - if there is improvement but if he is borderline - this visit could be the act that gets him in at that future time.

 

[HouseArrest]

Thanks for the nice statement about my son getting an A average! I know if he really sets his mind to it and stays on track, he will do it.

Not sure I quite understand your GPA/grades concern though. I do know that were he to get 2 years worth of credits elsewhere, if the time came for him to receive an honor at his final campus, he might not be allowed to receive, say, cum laude status. I was summa, 4.0 when I graduated, but since I had transferred a lot of credits into the university, I wasn’t allowed to receive that on my degree. But otherwise, my previous GPA did transfer, since it’s based on the grades themselves.

Are you saying that he would start from nothing if his CC grades transferred?

Oh they must be different depending on the school. Every school that I have experience with will accept the transfer credits but not the grade, so you’ll have your number of credits but not the grades figured into your GPA. This is the policy at PSU and a few other schools. (Another interesting policy that varies from one school to another is that if you retake a class, sometimes the original grade is replaced and sometimes it stays. Off topic, but good information for any student to know. Again no worries for your son who is getting all A’s).

Anyway, I hope that his conversation goes well, and yes it will be good practice for him when he needs to talk to professors, etc. Good Luck!

 

[kbachler]

Hope it went well.

 

[hwriggles4]

Gentlemen:

I second the advice here on junior colleges, and on trades. Good plumbers, welders, machinists, fire sprinkler installers, hvac technicians, laboratory technicians, and electricians can do pretty well. It is not easy work, but the ROI is good if you are willing to make the commitment.

For those seeking a four year degree, a junior college is a good way to save money and to try things out at a minimal cost. Posters hint that you may decide not to be a doctor after a year of junior college. You will also have smaller classes taught by instructors who take the time to teach (i.e. courses will not be taught by graduate teaching assistants).

I also found people at the junior college level (both daytime and nighttime students) to be friendly and helpful. While day students were more balanced in the interest of academia and social time, I found that when I took night classes(I was a little older and had a full-time job, but I was single and almost always I was the youngest in the class) I found the students to be more serious, mostly due to time constraints (many were married and had full-time jobs) that night school wasn’t a place to socialize.

One thing that bothers me though is that when I got out of high school (mid-1980’s), junior college was often looked at as a failure. Nothing can be further from the truth. Taking basic classes for say, a business degree and then going to a 4 year college is often an asset, and you still get the same diploma from the 4 year college. **I think guidance counselors (I only saw my counselor once at my large public high school of over 3,000 students with close to 800 in the senior class) need to let their high school students know that there is nothing wrong with attending a junior college first. **

Living at home and taking a part-time job isn’t a bad thing either, and quite a few junior college students between 18 and 22 do this. Living at home and taking a part-time job oftentimes helps students resist certain temptations too - I knew plenty of returning college students who “goofed off” the first time they left home for college.

As a man, I think there is too much emphasis on going to college right out of high school, and quite frankly, I wish some counselors would emphasize this more with the boys (the girls tend to be more mature). Much of my dad’s generation attended college after spending two years in the Armed Forces (a draft was in place from 1946-1973, so many men enlisted after high school rather than be drafted, and got GI Bills).

Men sometimes need a little more maturity, where starting college at 21 or 22 often pays off, since a man would have some real-life experience working, whether it was at a place like Home Depot, McDonald’s, construction work, or the Armed Forces. Men learn how to take orders, teamwork, people skills, and do tasks like mop floors and take out trash (yes, I did this at two grocery stores). You can’t be the manager after 6 months - sorry.

 

[hwriggles4]

Something to think about:

In certain fields, a four year degree will basically get someone in the door somewhere. After a few years, your experience, not your grades, will carry more weight than where you got your degree.

I had a boss once tell me, “I don’t care where people went to school, I didn’t care what there grades were, I care about what they are capable of doing.” There’s an old cliche that a diploma is just a piece of paper, and sometimes, that’s correct.

By the same token, I’ve also known some intelligent people that had no common sense. I’ve also known employers that would rather have people who could work as a team and communicate (i.e. people skills are key), and yes, sometimes learning to fail and recovering from that is a growth experience.

A case in point, I worked with a guy who left an engineering job to attend law school. He just wanted to get in to any law school that would take him. His thinking method was to graduate and pass the bar so he could practice law. He took the LSAT, got in to two law schools, and he passed the bar. Today, he has his own law practice in California. Moral of the story, he figured the license to practice law meant more than where he got his diploma, and as far as I’m concerned, he was right.

I’ve said from time to time school is what you personally make out of it.

 

[ryecroft]

What does your son want to do since he didn’t get into the college of his dreams? I agree - you can offer advice (even if he doesn’t ask - although sometimes I think it’s better if they do ask) -
can he take one of the tests (or has he already) that shows what he might be good at? (I was shocked as mine said I would make a good Air Traffic Controler - oy veh!)

Maybe if you ask him to think about what he’d like to do and have him write it out for you - does he want to go to community college - is he still set on getting into the colleges that didn’t accept him? Is he willing to take a semester off and study up for an SAT (In Japan we have Ju Kyu - where we basically study for a semester before the end of HIgh School tests which tell us which colleges you can get into - but High School is often considered almost more challeneging than college can be there - but the premise is a good idea)- he could study up for SAT’s (some of the tutoring centers help a great deal - I’m a tutor I have actually helped some students this way - but some of the national chains garuntee an improvement although I wouldn’t expect more that 60-100 points at most) - you could ask him if that’s a possibility -
Also the others are correct - the state universities often garuntee acceptance after getting your two year degree or two years of core courses in - it depends from state to state.

Good luck - I feel for both you and your son - what does he want to do with his life? Does he need a semester off so he can realize what he might have to do (maybe work in a fast food restaraunt) if he doesn’t get some good training/education under his belt? I had a friend whose parents made him work for a semester when he wanted to take 2 semesters off (1 semester was for a break as he had worked very, very hard in high school - when he wanted the second off that was it - get a job) - anyway he was practically begging to go back to school so he could do something with his life.

God Bless
Rye

 

[EphelDuath]

I haven’t read most of this thread past the first page.

Consider sending your son to trade school. Easier to get into, significantly cheaper tuition, and unless he’s dead-set on a career that requires an advanced degree, the starting salaries are about as high–if not higher–than for those with a B.A.

I have a four-year liberal arts degree from Catholic University (spent well over $60k in tuition) and I make about $14 an hour. My fiancee, to contrast, is going to go to a community college soon enough, and the projected starting salary for a two-year degree (less than $10k in tuition) from there is over $20 an hour.

God bless.

 

[Serap]

I’m just going to pour out my heart and hope this thread helps someone else in a similar position.

Our son has had his struggles in high school. His grades were not stellar. He is at a difficult Jesuit college prep, and he’s got ADHD. He’s also gone through a rebellious phase where he wouldn’t listen to much we told him, but he turned that around after his girlfriend dumped him in the fall of last year. Unfortunately his GPA didn’t come up until this year.

He applied at 2 colleges, one of which he pretty much knew he wasn’t getting into. He didn’t apply out of state because of the cost - he has no chance of getting an academic scholarship and we are not in any category that would stand a chance of getting any other type of scholarship. He did his best on the SAT and we thought his score was pretty good. He didn’t take it a 2nd time.

Well, the college he had his heart set on has turned him down. There are things I would have done differently if I could go back and do them again, but now it’s too late. He is devastated, his pride is hurt, and he’s scared about what to do next.

My husband went through the English school system, and I didn’t start college until I was 25, and I went through community college first. We didn’t know all the ins and outs of applying, testing, etc. I guess that is no excuse but I feel that I have let him down pretty much his whole life, by just not doing things to help him. We have done the best we could but evidently, it hasn’t been enough.

Everyone has to go to college these days or there doesn’t seem to be anything else for them. He’s got a talent for music but not enough for something like Julliard - it’s not classical music or anything, not prodigy level.

He’s an average kid, and it seems no one wants an average kid anywhere. Even when I was searching for a military school or a boarding school, even THOSE places all said they wanted the “exceptional” students!!!

I feel like his school counselor failed him too. He put Biology as his major and someone said if he had just put General Studies or something really light, he might have gotten in. I can’t contact the school because it’s spring break. I want to do SOMETHING and I hate feeling helpless and hopeless.

Is it wrong to want your kid to catch a break? He’s got ADHD and celiac disease - both of which have impacted his life incredibly. He’s had his struggles but he’s come through difficult times and he’s an amazing guy now. He has a job, that he’s held for a year. He’s led 2 Kairos retreats and a freshman welcome retreat. He’s staying chaste.

I know I should have faith that God will take my son where he should go but I’m afraid for him. Where do we go from here? It seems too late to start applying anywhere else now. Community college? If he just starts working I fear that he will never go to college. And back to where I started - that everyone is expected to go to college now days, even people who will wash out after their first semester but the place they took is one he might have stayed in.

I feel that I have let him down.

I didn’t begin college until age 22. I would have been turned down too b/c I’m ADD and did terribly in high school. I entered as a mature student.

Sometimes it’s just a maturity thing.

Can he repeat courses and re-do his SAT? Sometimes that extra year helps.

 

[signit]

Lots of recent posts here, making lots of good points:

For those seeking a four year degree, a junior college is a good way to save money and to try things out at a minimal cost. Posters hint that you may decide not to be a doctor after a year of junior college. You will also have smaller classes taught by instructors who take the time to teach (i.e. courses will not be taught by graduate teaching assistants).

. . .

One thing that bothers me though is that when I got out of high school (mid-1980’s), junior college was often looked at as a failure. Nothing can be further from the truth. Taking basic classes for say, a business degree and then going to a 4 year college is often an asset, and you still get the same diploma from the 4 year college. **I think guidance counselors (I only saw my counselor once at my large public high school of over 3,000 students with close to 800 in the senior class) need to let their high school students know that there is nothing wrong with attending a junior college first. **

In our area, at least, junior colleges have largely been replaced by community colleges (state-supported two-year colleges), but I totally agree. It’s a great opportunity to learn a skill that employers want or to transfer to a four-year.

And one of my high school teachers made a negative comment about someone choosing community college, and I’ll never forget it.

As a man, I think there is too much emphasis on going to college right out of high school, and quite frankly, I wish some counselors would emphasize this more with the boys (the girls tend to be more mature). Much of my dad’s generation attended college after spending two years in the Armed Forces (a draft was in place from 1946-1973, so many men enlisted after high school rather than be drafted, and got GI Bills).

Men sometimes need a little more maturity, where starting college at 21 or 22 often pays off, since a man would have some real-life experience working, whether it was at a place like Home Depot, McDonald’s, construction work, or the Armed Forces. Men learn how to take orders, teamwork, people skills, and do tasks like mop floors and take out trash (yes, I did this at two grocery stores). You can’t be the manager after 6 months - sorry.

Yes, in the U.S. parents, teachers, counselors, and especially peers put pressure on students to start college right after high school. In the U.S. students even apply to college for the following year while still in high school. And at that age people can make some serious errors.

I had a friend whose parents made him work for a semester when he wanted to take 2 semesters off (1 semester was for a break as he had worked very, very hard in high school - when he wanted the second off that was it - get a job) - anyway he was practically begging to go back to school so he could do something with his life.

This was me, except that I did this as an unemployed college grad.

And, like your friend, it only made me more determined to go back to school and get a usable master’s degree. I saw how people doing unskilled work had to live and I knew that was not what I wanted in my life.

I have a four-year liberal arts degree from Catholic University (spent well over $60k in tuition) and I make about $14 an hour. My fiancee, to contrast, is going to go to a community college soon enough, and the projected starting salary for a two-year degree (less than $10k in tuition) from there is over $20 an hour.

That’s me also.

I was joking back than with another unemployed college grad about how all the people we knew who went to two-year secretarial schools had jobs.

Never saw job openings in the newspaper for liberal arts grads, but seems that were always plenty for skilled trades.

 

[EphelDuath]

Indeed. Unless you’re a prodigy in your field, or you’re pretty dang sure that you’re safely going to get a doctorate (or an equivalent), liberal arts B.A.s are pretty worthless.

Honestly, I’m just going to straight-up tell my children that unless they get a full scholarship, they’re definitely going to trade school or a community college after high school (unless, of course, they express interest in going to a seminary or joining a religious order or something). You’re likely to have a quarter the tuition and double the starting salary as your typical English, music, drama, or history B.A.; in less time, no less.

Don’t know enough about law or medical school to comment on those, though. My fiancee is like three credits away from getting a B.A. in psychology, and she told me that taking even one class to get it is a waste of time since there’s nothing to do with it; she’d rather just get a two-year degree from a local community college and save the time.

 

[signit]

One I forgot to respond to:

A case in point, I worked with a guy who left an engineering job to attend law school. He just wanted to get in to any law school that would take him. His thinking method was to graduate and pass the bar so he could practice law. He took the LSAT, got in to two law schools, and he passed the bar. Today, he has his own law practice in California. Moral of the story, he figured the license to practice law meant more than where he got his diploma, and as far as I’m concerned, he was right.

I’ve said from time to time school is what you personally make out of it.

Law might be a special case.

If you just want to practice law by yourself, your friend may be right.

If you want to work for someone else, there is a definite advantage to attending one of the “top” schools, rightly or wrongly. One person told me that some employers see the school she attended as lower-rated and won’t even look at someone from there.

There have even been stories in the news about grads suing their law schools for misleading information about job placement.

You’re right that your record of achievement means more than your academic record, a few years down the road, but the academic record may get your foot in the door.

 

[kbachler]

Hope things have worked out.

 

[SouthCatholic]

Hope things have worked out.

This is an old thread and I am not the OP…

However… OP posted in another thread that her son went the alternative route and has been accepted as a Sophomore student at A&M… So all is well…