College son failing

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Stereotype?

No.

And I won’t take it back (“unring the bell”) because it IS a possibility. And I really hope I’m wrong (and I said that in my post). I don’t know the OP or the family from Adam, and so I’m just basing my suggestion on what the OP described and the situations that I have known.

If the OP knows that it is NOT a possibility, then that’s wonderful. There’s no reason to jump all over me and accuse me of being way out in left field or freaky or whatever.

In my very long post, I did offer quite a few other possibilities, didn’t I? Yes, I did.

I mentioned physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual issues, and I also raised the possibility of the some parental “errors” that may have left the young man with the need for a little more training before he’s ready to be a grown-up.

Now before anyone jumps all over me and accuses me of telling the parents that they “blew it,” I’m not trying to denigrate the OP for “errors.” ALL parents make errors in their parenting. My husband and I definitely made our share of parental “errors” and we have had to reap the sour fruit of those errors. E.g., we were too free with our money, and our older daughter often has the same undisciplined spending habits and gets into financial troubles and then whines about being broke–ah, the parents’ sins are visited upon their children. But our other daughter is a miser with money, so at least we got it half-right. That’s just ONE example of bad parenting on our part, and I could list a dozen more ways we failed our children.

So I’m not trying to “freak out” the OP. I just want to point out that they may have inadvertently fostered the son’s situation.

Or maybe not.

And I do hope that everyone noticed the part of my post that cautioned against putting too much stock in advice from friends or people online–that would include me! I urged the OP to get some expert help.

However, apparently once I used the “G” word in my post, everyone forgot the rest of the post. So go back and read my post.

If someone is gay, they’re gay. It’s tough for most parents to hear (I would be devastated), but it happens and it’s not the end of the world. If you don’t know any parents who have been through this in their family, well, you will eventually know someone. And yes, the “coming out” can be preceded by the types of behaviors that the young man described in the OP is demonstrating. Again, I hope with all my heart that I’m wrong, because it’s a tough cross to bear.

And again, if the consensus of the thread is that the OP should just leave the young man alone and let him work things through, fine. I don’t agree–I think that it’s time to get some help. But that’s just my opinion, and the OP is free to ignore it and go with the consensus.

You could have written a paragraph about how her son fits the profile of a serial killer too. I wonder why “gay” stood out to you? It just seemed so odd.

 

[Cat]

You could have written a paragraph about how her son fits the profile of a serial killer too. I wonder why “gay” stood out to you? It just seemed so odd.

Generally speaking, serial killers don’t go through stress and agony, with symptoms including becoming withdrawn (video games and websurfing), trouble with grades, feeling lonely, etc. while trying to decide whether to “come out” to their parents or not.

Most serial killers don’t call for a family meeting and then tell their parents, “Mom, Dad, there’s something I need to tell you and I hope you’ll learn to accept me–I’m a serial killer. I’ve killed three people already and I’m plan to kill more.”

Nothing in the OP’s post indicated that the son is a serial killer. There are symptoms that serial killers sometimes (not always) exhibit in their youth, and this son didn’t appear to have any of those symptoms.

Another possibility, based on the symptoms, is that the son is being bullied, and perhaps I should have mentioned that. But as a rule, this doesn’t happen in college, although I suppose it could be getting more common. After all, we’re now seeing it in the NFL.

If we were betting on it, my gut feeling is that the son is simply what’s called a “low achiever.” This is someone who has a difficult time getting motivated to work, has poor time management skills, and experiences paralyzing stress when under pressure. I think that a good counselor or school advisor could probably work with the young man and teach him some skills that would help him organize his time, get more done, and improve his grades.

As I’ve already said several times, there are a lot of possibilities here, and if he were my son, I would be moving mountains to try to help him make his dreams come true, and my approach would be to call in experts who know all about young men. Other people apparently think that the son should be left alone for a while longer so that he can try to work things out on his own. These are two very different points of view, and that’s what the OP was looking for when they came here to CAF.

 

[Xantippe]

Somebody has probably mentioned this upthread, but early adulthood is often when mental illness surfaces. A good psych evaluation might be an awfully good idea.

 

[PrayRosary]

LOL the OP must be feeling great right now.
*shakes head in disbelief

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Generally speaking, serial killers don’t go through stress and agony, with symptoms including becoming withdrawn (video games and websurfing), trouble with grades, feeling lonely, etc. while trying to decide whether to “come out” to their parents or not.

Most serial killers don’t call for a family meeting and then tell their parents, “Mom, Dad, there’s something I need to tell you and I hope you’ll learn to accept me–I’m a serial killer. I’ve killed three people already and I’m plan to kill more.”

Nothing in the OP’s post indicated that the son is a serial killer. There are symptoms that serial killers sometimes (not always) exhibit in their youth, and this son didn’t appear to have any of those symptoms.

Another possibility, based on the symptoms, is that the son is being bullied, and perhaps I should have mentioned that. But as a rule, this doesn’t happen in college, although I suppose it could be getting more common. After all, we’re now seeing it in the NFL.

If we were betting on it, my gut feeling is that the son is simply what’s called a “low achiever.” This is someone who has a difficult time getting motivated to work, has poor time management skills, and experiences paralyzing stress when under pressure. I think that a good counselor or school advisor could probably work with the young man and teach him some skills that would help him organize his time, get more done, and improve his grades.

As I’ve already said several times, there are a lot of possibilities here, and if he were my son, I would be moving mountains to try to help him make his dreams come true, and my approach would be to call in experts who know all about young men. Other people apparently think that the son should be left alone for a while longer so that he can try to work things out on his own. These are two very different points of view, and that’s what the OP was looking for when they came here to CAF.

Wow, I actually guessed right.

From the OP on another thread.

When I had five kids 10 years and younger, I felt overwhelmed by it all and put my two oldest in a Catholic school and found out–it was harder!!! pickup/drop off (pickup cutting the toddler’s nap short), making lunches (no cafeteria), uniforms, two hours of homework most nights, school projects demanding parental assistance, fundraisers and dealing with peer nonsense and with communication with teachers…wore me out.** We gratefully resumed homeschooling the next year and never looked back. **

I really think the op’s biggest issue is the need for sleep. It’s hard to handle the demands of several children and a household with little sleep. There’s been times when I thought I was on the edge of a breakdown and then got a full night’s sleep and wondered what the fuss was about.

I read a very easy and encouraging ebook recently called, Lies Homeschool Moms Believe. It addresses some of the negativity that our mom minds sometimes generate in our desire to be good at what we do.

So here we have information that the son was probably homeschooled.

Does that change your frame of reference? It does mine.
It is sometimes common for homeschooled kids to have exactly the issues that the OP is struggling with.

From the OP I deduce that the kid is a great kid who may be overwhelmed with real world shell shock. Now, I homeschool, and love it. So don’t jump all over me but there is a common theme sometimes with homeschool kids.
My homeschool radar went up like your “gaydar”
I saw an 18 year old in community college who just got a Drivers licence and has trouble with social things. Many homeschooled kids get Drivers licenses late and for good or bad are sheltered from the world longer than others. I feel this can be a benefit to homeschooling but not at the price of the child’s effectiveness at going out into the world.

My advice is opposite of what one would think at first. This kid needs to be in a real honest to goodness college. There are fine CCs and they serve a purpose but they can be a trap for the homeschooled. Many homeschoolers run into collegiate trouble in admissions and CCs tend to be more lax about admissions. Many CCs are a training ground for vo-tech skills. This kid wants to be an artist. And CCs really do try to copy the University experience but they really fall short. The “clubs” and groups are not the same as at a University. If it were my son, I would find out if he should be somewhere else, somewhere that will nurture his ability. The OP says her son is smart, so I honestly think this is a CC failure and should be rectified by a 4 year institution.

Sorry fellow homeschoolers. And sorry CCers but it is what I would advise on the limited information we have.

One more thing. I would NOT advise giving Cat’s bomb any attention with the son. The last thing this kid needs right now is mommy sitting him down and asking him if he finds girls attractive or not.

Really cat,
Depression, shyness, addiction, etc. I could see how you could bring those things up, but where did you even grab the “gay” thing from!?

Calling meeting with parents? Where did you read that into the posts?
Like I said, I have read your posts and you are usually insightful and spot on. But this one has me questioning if someone hacked your account.

And like all of us, I guess you some faults too. Like not knowing when to say, ooops that was probably over the line.

It is ok, I am never wrong either. Those of us who are never wrong should stick together.

“I thought I was wrong once. It turns out I was just mistaken about that.”
Anonymous

 

[jerryinbaok]

We have so much in common. My son is 21 now, still a full time student slowly making his way towards his degree and works as a waiter. Although his situation is much different than your son’s now it was only a few years ago that I believe their situations were somewhat similar.

My son always had a bit of social awkwardness too. It limited the number of friends he had and the degree he participated in school events and activities. I determined my son was going through a bit of depression and he later admitted he did and was somewhat surprised that I had dialed into that. He eventually started working through some of this on his own. But his progress was slow.

Some way or another your son needs to realize that these emotions he’s feeling are not abnormal. He needs to know that what he’s going through at this time of his life is common and “ok”. Being uncertain of how things are going to unfold at that age is scary especially if he has few close friends to confide.

You’re lucky in that your son practices his faith. Unfortunately mine wasn’t raised with the church as a priority and that is something that I can only fault myself.

Your post has struck me greatly because I’ve been there, I understand you concerns and I’ve felt similar fears. Hopefully he’ll draw on his faith and find peace while he works through this transition. I know one thing for certain, he has the love of his parents behind him and that coupled with God’s grace will see him through this.

 

[EasterJoy]

Somebody has probably mentioned this upthread, but early adulthood is often when mental illness surfaces. A good psych evaluation might be an awfully good idea.

It is extremely common for students to run into problems when they first try to do a project-intensive major while simultaneously holding down an outside job or doing work-study. This is particularly true when self-motivated ambition has not been the student’s long suit. You see it all the time in straight-A students who weren’t sufficiently challenged in high school.

If the son is feeling upset and stressed out, by all means he ought to avail himself of the counseling services at his school, starting with academic counseling but also (if all of this upsets him) the mental-health services. They’re paid for, he may as well! Whether or not he uses them, though, the fact that college and universities typically offers such services as part of tuition ought to tell him something. He is not at all out of the ordinary.

 

[Xantippe]

Hoosier Daddy said:

“Does that change your frame of reference? It does mine.
It is sometimes common for homeschooled kids to have exactly the issues that the OP is struggling with.”

Yes, that does sound like an important possible factor.

“My advice is opposite of what one would think at first. This kid needs to be in a real honest to goodness college.”

That advice worries me, because what if he fails, just much more expensively than he is failing now? I think I would like to see a term or two of better academic results before that, even if he’s only taking a class or two at a time.

 

[HouseArrest]

I had trouble in college after doing very well in high school. It was rather simple. I would not ask any questions. I thought I should know the answer or be able to find out on my own, or the degree wouldn’t really be mine. Funny, huh? I wish I could go back and kick myself!

Really, the problem may be something as simple as that. Maybe it is procrastination, or bad habits of turning things in late, time management, fear of failure, or being too independent to participate in group work. Ask him! Does he think any of these (very common) problems dragging him down? Many people can get through high school without solving them, but when the hit a tough course load, they cannot.

I would ask him to really think about what is interfering with him completing his projects and go from there. Utilizing any counseling available at the school wouldn’t hurt. That way they would be able to look out for him as well.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Hoosier Daddy said:

“Does that change your frame of reference? It does mine.
It is sometimes common for homeschooled kids to have exactly the issues that the OP is struggling with.”

Yes, that does sound like an important possible factor.

“My advice is opposite of what one would think at first. This kid needs to be in a real honest to goodness college.”

That advice worries me, because what if he fails, just much more expensively than he is failing now? I think I would like to see a term or two of better academic results before that, even if he’s only taking a class or two at a time.

It is scary advice. I know. But if his future money is on the line, If he is paying for his future instead of being in a hole, working fast food and going to community college, for “free” it might be the motivation he needs. The flipside of the coin is that not everyone should go to college. You could go either way here. But if his passion is art he should go to a University.

There really is truth to the old adage"you get what you pay for."

 

[Cat]

Wow, I actually guessed right.

From the OP on another thread.

So here we have information that the son was probably homeschooled.

Does that change your frame of reference? It does mine.
It is sometimes common for homeschooled kids to have exactly the issues that the OP is struggling with.

From the OP I deduce that the kid is a great kid who may be overwhelmed with real world shell shock. Now, I homeschool, and love it. So don’t jump all over me but there is a common theme sometimes with homeschool kids.
My homeschool radar went up like your “gaydar”
I saw an 18 year old in community college who just got a Drivers licence and has trouble with social things. Many homeschooled kids get Drivers licenses late and for good or bad are sheltered from the world longer than others. I feel this can be a benefit to homeschooling but not at the price of the child’s effectiveness at going out into the world.

My advice is opposite of what one would think at first. This kid needs to be in a real honest to goodness college. There are fine CCs and they serve a purpose but they can be a trap for the homeschooled. Many homeschoolers run into collegiate trouble in admissions and CCs tend to be more lax about admissions. Many CCs are a training ground for vo-tech skills. This kid wants to be an artist. And CCs really do try to copy the University experience but they really fall short. The “clubs” and groups are not the same as at a University. If it were my son, I would find out if he should be somewhere else, somewhere that will nurture his ability. The OP says her son is smart, so I honestly think this is a CC failure and should be rectified by a 4 year institution.

Sorry fellow homeschoolers. And sorry CCers but it is what I would advise on the limited information we have.

One more thing. I would NOT advise giving Cat’s bomb any attention with the son. The last thing this kid needs right now is mommy sitting him down and asking him if he finds girls attractive or not.

Really cat,
Depression, shyness, addiction, etc. I could see how you could bring those things up, but where did you even grab the “gay” thing from!?

Calling meeting with parents? Where did you read that into the posts?
Like I said, I have read your posts and you are usually insightful and spot on. But this one has me questioning if someone hacked your account.

And like all of us, I guess you some faults too. Like not knowing when to say, ooops that was probably over the line.

It is ok, I am never wrong either. Those of us who are never wrong should stick together.

“I thought I was wrong once. It turns out I was just mistaken about that.”
Anonymous

I am apparently writing very poorly.

I never said anything about “mommy sitting down and asking her son if he finds girls attractive or not”

I NEVER said that, and I most certainly would never recommend that! Never.

I have said several time that the reason I brought up the issue is so that the parents will have a chance to prepare themselves should their son decide to talk to them about it. I still stand by what I said–this is a possibility. Actually, it’s a possibility in EVERY family, and we are all kidding ourselves if we think that this will never happen in our family.

And my comments about a “meeting with the parents” were describing a purely hypothetical situation. In my experience (not my personal experience, but with friends), this is what has happened when a son or daughter “come outs” to parents: they ask the parents if they can all sit down and talk (or have a family “meeting”) and they tell their parents that they are gay.

Please forgive me for being such a poor writer today.

And I would greatly appreciate it if everyone would stop ascribing things to me that I never said. Thank you.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am apparently writing very poorly.

I never said anything about “mommy sitting down and asking her son if he finds girls attractive or not”

I NEVER said that, and I most certainly would never recommend that! Never.

I have said several time that the reason I brought up the issue is so that the parents will have a chance to prepare themselves should their son decide to talk to them about it. I still stand by what I said–this is a possibility. Actually, it’s a possibility in EVERY family, and we are all kidding ourselves if we think that this will never happen in our family.

And my comments about a “meeting with the parents” were describing a purely hypothetical situation. In my experience (not my personal experience, but with friends), this is what has happened when a son or daughter “come outs” to parents: they ask the parents if they can all sit down and talk (or have a family “meeting”) and they tell their parents that they are gay.

Please forgive me for being such a poor writer today.

And I would greatly appreciate it if everyone would stop ascribing things to me that I never said. Thank you.

Hey no problem!
It is a combo of your expression and my comprehension.

But I think we can move on from the gay thing which you never explained anyway. (thankfully) because I don’t think there is any reason to hunt that beast. On this thread.

Like I said. It was out of character for you from what I have read of your posts.

What is in character is your staunch defense of your point.

Lets move on!

 

[Cat]

Wow, I actually guessed right.

From the OP on another thread.

So here we have information that the son was probably homeschooled.

Does that change your frame of reference? It does mine.
It is sometimes common for homeschooled kids to have exactly the issues that the OP is struggling with.

From the OP I deduce that the kid is a great kid who may be overwhelmed with real world shell shock. Now, I homeschool, and love it. So don’t jump all over me but there is a common theme sometimes with homeschool kids.
My homeschool radar went up like your “gaydar”
I saw an 18 year old in community college who just got a Drivers licence and has trouble with social things. Many homeschooled kids get Drivers licenses late and for good or bad are sheltered from the world longer than others. I feel this can be a benefit to homeschooling but not at the price of the child’s effectiveness at going out into the world.

My advice is opposite of what one would think at first. This kid needs to be in a real honest to goodness college. There are fine CCs and they serve a purpose but they can be a trap for the homeschooled. Many homeschoolers run into collegiate trouble in admissions and CCs tend to be more lax about admissions. Many CCs are a training ground for vo-tech skills. This kid wants to be an artist. And CCs really do try to copy the University experience but they really fall short. The “clubs” and groups are not the same as at a University. If it were my son, I would find out if he should be somewhere else, somewhere that will nurture his ability. The OP says her son is smart, so I honestly think this is a CC failure and should be rectified by a 4 year institution.

Sorry fellow homeschoolers. And sorry CCers but it is what I would advise on the limited information we have.

One more thing. I would NOT advise giving Cat’s bomb any attention with the son. The last thing this kid needs right now is mommy sitting him down and asking him if he finds girls attractive or not.

Really cat,
Depression, shyness, addiction, etc. I could see how you could bring those things up, but where did you even grab the “gay” thing from!?

Calling meeting with parents? Where did you read that into the posts?
Like I said, I have read your posts and you are usually insightful and spot on. But this one has me questioning if someone hacked your account.

And like all of us, I guess you some faults too. Like not knowing when to say, ooops that was probably over the line.

It is ok, I am never wrong either. Those of us who are never wrong should stick together.

“I thought I was wrong once. It turns out I was just mistaken about that.”
Anonymous

I know a lot of homeschooled children, and interestingly, all have done well in college. In fact, they are often better prepared for college than the kids in the “real” schools.

I wonder if it’s because we live in a city where several thousand kids are homeschooled, and there are several large and thriving home-school co-ops?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I know a lot of homeschooled children, and interestingly, all have done well in college. In fact, they are often better prepared for college than the kids in the “real” schools.

I wonder if it’s because we live in a city where several thousand kids are homeschooled, and there are several large and thriving home-school co-ops?

Homeschooling is one of the most diverse things I have ever been a part of. You have spelling bee champs, farmers, Catholics, hippies, etc. Some co ops are productive, some not.
In our family we use a great curriculum and have no desire to use co ops. Our kids all play a sport or an activity with other kids.
But that is what is great about homeschooling, you can tailor it to what works for your family. Which is why the OP really should be able to come up with something here. She knows this boy better than anyone else. A step back, a look at the situation with fresh eyes and I’ll bet the answer become apparent.

I have taught at a CC and seen the homeschool kids struggle. I have seen homeschool kids beat the snot out of their peers on a University level. If the OP is correct and the kid is smart, can handle the material but is stuck and struggling in the CC environment I think University is the way to go. Really Universities are by and large better at providing assistance and support for the student.

 

[EasterJoy]

My advice is opposite of what one would think at first. This kid needs to be in a real honest to goodness college. There are fine CCs and they serve a purpose but they can be a trap for the homeschooled. Many homeschoolers run into collegiate trouble in admissions and CCs tend to be more lax about admissions. Many CCs are a training ground for vo-tech skills. This kid wants to be an artist. And CCs really do try to copy the University experience but they really fall short. The “clubs” and groups are not the same as at a University. If it were my son, I would find out if he should be somewhere else, somewhere that will nurture his ability. The OP says her son is smart, so I honestly think this is a CC failure and should be rectified by a 4 year institution…

Between grad school and jobs after grad school, I’ve taught at a huge Division I school, a prestigious private school, and a quality community college. The absolute last thing I’d do with someone who was getting poor grades at a community college would be to throw them into a university.

In the absence of worrisome symptoms in other areas, such as poor job performance or deteriorating social relationships, poor grades ought to be assumed to be an academic problem–not exercising time management, not clear where to get help, insufficient application of effort, insufficient aptitude, et cetera–until proven otherwise. I’d really suggest the son get academic advice from someone in his art department and someone in academic advising. They can help him figure out what is going on. Until academic reasons are ruled out, I wouldn’t assume that anything more drastic is behind this.

 

[EasterJoy]

I know a lot of homeschooled children, and interestingly, all have done well in college. In fact, they are often better prepared for college than the kids in the “real” schools.

I wonder if it’s because we live in a city where several thousand kids are homeschooled, and there are several large and thriving home-school co-ops?

In my experience, it isn’t about homeschooling or not. It is often about whether or not the student has the study skills and self-mastery to get work done on their own. Students with parents who stood over them throughout their academic careers and made sure their homework got done do worse in college than students who were responsible for scheduling and getting their own projects done thoroughly and in a timely manner by the time they completed high school.

Of course all bets are off when there are romantic disasters, homesickness, social failures, medical problems, “existential ennui”, and so on. Still, I’d say that most of the time when a new student fails at college right off the bat, it is because they aren’t very good at self-supervision of their studies.

Surely if he’s on academic probation he can get feedback about what to change. He needs to take responsibility for himself and go find that feedback. When he gets those opinions, he can take it from there. He may even want to repeat the courses he took this semester, and get it right this time.

 

[SuperLuigi]

My very sweet 20 year old son is doing very poorly at Community College. He’s always been a bit behind maturing in some ways–got his first job at 18, his driver’s license shortly after, struggles with new social situations, etc.

He’s studying art with the goal of attending an art tech school a few states away. He wants to build his portfolio and achieve his associates in fine arts (not sure what practical use it will be). Fortunately, with the low tuition of community college and a Pell grant, he’s able to do his college costs so far without any loans.

However, despite being very smart, he’s not doing well at all. Mostly, he’s not turning things in on time or missing assignments all together. He’s working about 15 hours a week and taking 12 credit hours. Even in his art classes, he’s getting B’s and C’s. He’s on academic probation.

I think he’s a little lonely, but when we encourage him to join the Catholic Student Union (at a nearby campus) or even think about transferring to a on campus situation, he says no. He spends too much time either surfing the web or playing video games. We talked to him again tonight about making a plan to do better, but he just says, “I know. I know.” I think he wants to be better, but is just having a hard time with self discipline.

We even suggested dropping out, getting a better job (he works fast food), and working on his portfolio by taking private classes, but he says he wants to finish his associates.

It’s hard to see him so stalled out. He has struggled with social anxiety growing up, but always did well academically. His coursework is not demanding at all.

He attends Sunday Mass every week, but as far as I can see, that’s all he does spiritually.

Any parents been through this? Any advice?

I wonder if he has some kind of disability related to social anxiety. College is different than high school.

I think you need to tell him to get in touch with the school’s disability services, because I have a hunch he’s stalling out not because he’s lazy but because some of the social interactions are intimidating and he finds solace in other worlds like videogames.

Because he’s an adult, he has to initiate this. The problem he could be having isn’t something that will likely put him a straight jacket, but I sense he’s going to hit roadblocks academically and that his peers and college staff may not understand that and they will mistake that for lack of effort.

I would say that this situation is more common than you think.

 

[EasterJoy]

The student may simply have bitten off more than he can chew. Before he tries another semester, he needs to a) get himself an informed opinion about where he went wrong and b) have a concrete plan for how he is going to avoid having the same issue(s) plague him next time around. Not just “I’m going to try harder”, but a real plan to stick with…

 

[Xantippe]

EasterJoy said:

“The student may simply have bitten off more than he can chew.”

I was a pretty good student, but I found a full load of honors courses (lots of papers) at college plus 10 hours of work study more than I could manage. My first term, I was always calling in and telling them I couldn’t come in while I furiously typed up papers that were due in the next hour or two. I think I probably just lasted one term and then just disappeared and didn’t attempt to work during the school year after that (I did work like crazy during the summer). I was a terrible work study employee.

Another thing that comes to mind is that games are very motivating and you are shown how many points or other valuables you have accumulated. They are also highly structured. You need to kill that monster RIGHT NOW and it’s obvious that that’s what you should be doing. If you do well (within the parameters of the game) you are immediately rewarded and if you screw up, you are immediately punished. (I got this insight from the author of a book entitled "Transforming the Difficult Child.) I would be tempted to explain some of this to the OP’s son, because he’s probably wondering why it’s so easy for him to do his games, and so hard to do his work.