College: Worth the cost?

[kage_ar]

Anyway, all that assumes that making money is the main goal. Many people would argue for the value of education for its own sake. What is the point of making money if not to be able to afford a good life for yourself? For many, learning and being in an academic atmosphere is fulfilling.

Most modern colleges are about getting a scrap of paper, not about becoming educated.

 

[kage_ar]

I see what you are saying, but there is a balance. Your statement is more towards one extreme.

It’s Jesus’ statement.

 

[Nec5]

Most modern colleges are about getting a scrap of paper, not about becoming educated.

Precisely. It’s a increasingly necessary stamp of approval for employers. As Mark Twain said, “I never let my schooling interfere with my education”.

I recommend people do the community college route for 2-years before moving on to a four year university. You’ll minimize the costs and receive the same skills. You’ll also have more room to maneuver when you change majors (somewhere around 80% of all undergraduates change their major at least once).

 

[Jay82]

I recommend people do the community college route for 2-years before moving on to a four year university. You’ll minimize the costs and receive the same skills. You’ll also have more room to maneuver when you change majors (somewhere around 80% of all undergraduates change their major at least once).

If you can get into the four year college/university and afford it… do it. Don’t waste time at community college. The level of education at a four year University is much better, you are around students who are more focused towards learning, and you will be challenged more than a community college.

 

[Jay82]

Most modern colleges are about getting a scrap of paper, not about becoming educated.

What you make of your college experience is up the individual. Students are afforded very good opportunities to learn, but they need to take advantage of those opportunities. Some do, some don’t.

 

[dontknow]

If you can get into the four year college/university and afford it… do it. Don’t waste time at community college. The level of education at a four year University is much better, you are around students who are more focused towards learning, and you will be challenged more than a community college.

I can’t disagree more… sorry.

3 family members can’t disagree more and can tell you for fact that one of them - who was in a local renowned medical university to become a M.D. - took classes at a state college and transferred the credits. His feelings were the state school was better and much less expensive.

I will strongly discourage my daughter from spending the money on a private school unless it’s something of specialty that she can not get otherwise at an equivalent state school…

 

[dontknow]

Liberal arts degrees are not worthless. Of what use are math or science without the context and wisdom that come from being well grounded in the liberal arts

Agreed.

Although I do not have one myself, I find it too bad that Liberal Arts is
being tossed aside for specialty stuff in most cases.

The option should be there. At this stage of my life, I wish I could get a Liberal Arts Degree.

 

[flyingfish]

Most modern colleges are about getting a scrap of paper, not about becoming educated.

I don’t see why you’d say that to be honest. I suppose there are some subjects where a person can get educated independently, but being taught by professors, having research opportunities, being able to do experiments if you’re a science or engineering student is very important in education.

The community of learning is very important, both in terms of actually learning from other people as opposed to reading books, but also in terms of opportunities to work with others and to be motivated by an environment of learning.

It’s not just a scrap of paper that says you’re educated, you really are being educated.

And yes, there is a practical aspect of having evidence of having been educated in the form of a diploma. Maybe you could teach yourself math (maybe not as well as you would learn under the guidance of professors, unless you’re a genius), but say you wanted to get hired to teach math at a high school your employer would want to see evidence that you know your stuff. No one will have time for hearing about how you’re self taught and know everything, because the person in charge of hiring doesn’t really have a way to test whether you’re telling the truth. What are they going to do? Give you a comprehensive math exam and grade it? It’s impractical. And testing whether you know the less technical fields is even more impractical.

Colleges do this, so when an employer sees your diploma, they know that your knowledge has been tested rigorously over the course of the 4 (or however many) years of study.

 

[CountrySinger]

Well, in order to become a school teacher, you need at least a bachelor’s degree, and most states require a master’s to be earned in a certain number of years. If someone wants to go into certain fields, they NEED a Bachelor’s degree. I want to become a Special Education teacher, so higher education is a necessity, plus, when I do begin teaching, I get my loans forgiven after a few years! SCORE! Doing what I love= priceless.

Plus, my degree shows that I can start something and finish it. It helps in this tough job market. Degree+experience= job offer.

 

[kage_ar]

Colleges do this, so when an employer sees your diploma, they know that your knowledge has been tested rigorously over the course of the 4 (or however many) years of study.

Some of the WORST employees I’ve had were those with “impressive” degrees. Most MBAs I’ve worked with are dolts.

In the real world (aside from the fields of medicine, law, engineering and academia), a degree shows you could pass tests and pay tuition.

 

[SMHW]

There are all kinds of reasons to go to college but I’m only going to deal with the idea that college is an investment from which one hopes to profit financially.

There are jobs/businesses out there where people are making far more money than the majority of people with college degrees.

However…

I suspect the majority of people who are asking the question about the need for college will benefit financially from some higher education. It may be college with a goal of a BS/ BA or beyond. Or it may be a trade school or other technical program. Such things are the admission tickets to many careers.

The people who make good money without or in spite of a college degree aren’t asking questions about what they should do. They are already doing doing what needs doing. Such people usually have an inner drive which really can’t be taught. It’s part of their innate personality/character.

 

[flyingfish]

Some of the WORST employees I’ve had were those with “impressive” degrees. Most MBAs I’ve worked with are dolts.

In the real world (aside from the fields of medicine, law, engineering and academia), a degree shows you could pass tests and pay tuition.

I don’t know much about what an MBA entails nor do I know what kind of knowledge is needed to be a manager, so I can’t comment on the specifics.

Out of curiosity, what faults did you find with your employees/what kind of work were they doing/what makes you think that someone without an education wouldn’t be even more of a “dolt”?

 

[kage_ar]

I don’t know much about what an MBA entails nor do I know what kind of knowledge is needed to be a manager, so I can’t comment on the specifics.

Out of curiosity, what faults did you find with your employees/what kind of work were they doing/what makes you think that someone without an education wouldn’t be even more of a “dolt”?

Twisting my words.

People can be hightly educated and not have a degree. The best education comes from experience. Some of the best staff members, co workers and bosses were products of the US Military.

I worked for two decades in the corporate sector, in the high tech side of communications.

In both the business and technical side, I have see the “well, at blah blah business school they taught us wha wha wha wha wah” and I-am-not-dry-behind-the-ears-and-think-I-know-it-all-itis, the “give me a corner office because of this bit of paper” attitude, those who panic when a it is not like the textbook said, those who cannot carry on an intelligent conversation or speak to a customer with respect, those who treat “lower” level employees as trash, it goes on and on and on.

The entitlement attitude is the most prevalant thing from young college grads, second to being flat out lazy.

 

[flyingfish]

Twisting my words.

People can be hightly educated and not have a degree. The best education comes from experience. Some of the best staff members, co workers and bosses were products of the US Military…

The entitlement attitude is the most prevalant thing from young college grads, second to being flat out lazy.

Aren’t people taught various skills in the military? I mean, I can see how someone who was in the military can acquire the leadership skills that would make that person a successful manager.

Actually being in the military in the US involves the very high possibility of being required to go to war. That seems to be a pretty high price to pay for those kinds of skills, and it’s much safer and pleasant to get those kinds of qualifications in college.

 

[kage_ar]

Aren’t people taught various skills in the military? I mean, I can see how someone who was in the military can acquire the leadership skills that would make that person a successful manager.

If I have two canidates, one has been military, one has a shiny new degree and everything else is equal, I’ll hire the former service person every time.

See, most college grads want to be a manager, no one wants to be a managee. One can never be a good manager if they are not willing to do the lowest grunt work.

Actually being in the military in the US involves the very high possibility of being required to go to war. That seems to be a pretty high price to pay for those kinds of skills, and it’s much safer and pleasant to get those kinds of qualifications in college.

And it shows in the final product.

 

[flyingfish]

If I have two canidates, one has been military, one has a shiny new degree and everything else is equal, I’ll hire the former service person every time.

See, most college grads want to be a manager, no one wants to be a managee. One can never be a good manager if they are not willing to do the lowest grunt work.

And it shows in the final product.

I don’t know much about what it takes to be a manager, what is taught in business school, or for that matter the military so I’m not really going to comment.

The subject at hand is whether a college degree is worth it. There’s a simple answer to that question, looking at the average salaries of college educated people and uneducated. You can break it up by specific degrees, from engineering to philosophy and look at the statistics.

That’s just the financial aspect.

The far more important aspect in my opinion is the quality of life factor. Money is only a means to an end (the end being an enjoyable life), and if making that money requires working in a boring job, then in my opinion it would be better to make less but do interesting work. You’ll be spending most of your time doing that job, if paying money to go to college will let you find a job that’s fun, it’s worth it regardless of the debt factor in my opinion.

 

[Jay82]

Aren’t people taught various skills in the military? I mean, I can see how someone who was in the military can acquire the leadership skills that would make that person a successful manager.

Actually being in the military in the US involves the very high possibility of being required to go to war. That seems to be a pretty high price to pay for those kinds of skills, and it’s much safer and pleasant to get those kinds of qualifications in college.

I lump those who go to college and those who go into the military into the same group (for this discussion anyway). In the military you get a lot of ‘on the job’ training in specific fields - especially technology. Plus the military will help pay for you to get a college degree. Many people I know who have military backgrounds also got a degree some time later.

I personally don’t know anyone who isn’t struggling through life that elected not to go to college or enter the military. All of those who graduated High School with me who only have a high school education are in really bad shape.

Some of the WORST employees I’ve had were those with “impressive” degrees. Most MBAs I’ve worked with are dolts.

In the real world (aside from the fields of medicine, law, engineering and academia), a degree shows you could pass tests and pay tuition.

I’ve worked with and managed people with various degrees who I don’t think too highly of… but they are still better than someone who simply has ONLY a high school diploma.

I still think a degree is very valuable and you seem to have a very negative opinion of the signifiance of a degree due to your personal experiences. On the whole, college is a good experience and important to most people.

 

[Jay82]

The subject at hand is whether a college degree is worth it. There’s a simple answer to that question, looking at the average salaries of college educated people and uneducated. You can break it up by specific degrees, from engineering to philosophy and look at the statistics.

Seconded.

 

[robdaddyf]

What does it profit a man go gain the whole world and lose his soul?

Very fitting quote! Thank you.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I think college is worth it, but it would be great if you end up using your degree. I have been in sales/marketing for some time, and my education degree has really not been very meaningful. Granted, it took discpline, etc to get through college, but the actual degree I never put to use. I sometimes wonder if it wouldn’t be beneficial to make high school grads work out in the ‘‘real world’’ for say a year or so before going to college…and seeing what they’d like to do. I changed my major three times before settling on education :hypno: It is hard to know what you want to do for sure at 17. I know many stay the course, but I just speak from my own experience. I have long admired people who know what they want to do from say 5th grade on…and pursue that! lol

Getting a degree is never a waste, though. I do think it’s too expensive nowadays for a basic BA.*