Combined penance service the norm?

[nancymarie]

While visiting an upstate NY parish a few weeks ago I was shocked to read the following in the bulletin:

" The Norm for this sacrament celebrating God’s forgiveness is the seasonal combined Penance Service. In addition, the Sacrament is available by appointment."

Since when is the combined Penance Service the Norm?

thanks

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I live in western NY. In my diocese, during Advent & Lent,
many of the area parishes “combine forces” and offer a Penance Service.
It includes readings, some hyms, a general examination of conscience, and then indiviual confession. They are usually very well attended.

Some parishes also added extra confession times, both during Advent & Lent, and had more priest available each time. Step by step, I guess.

Without seeing the the statement in it’s entire context, I can’t really make any judgement as to what the intenion was. Sound like bad word usage to me.

 

[TMD60]

Thanks.

Apparently the priest who heads up this particular parish does not offer regular confession times. Confession is only available by appointment. Seems to me like he was suggesting that the combined service is sufficient for confession purposes.

Saying that it’s “the norm” seems to imply that one need not attend individual confession.

 

[FCEGM]

Thanks.

Apparently the priest who heads up this particular parish does not offer regular confession times. Confession is only available by appointment. Seems to me like he was suggesting that the combined service is sufficient for confession purposes.

Saying that it’s “the norm” seems to imply that one need not attend individual confession.

:sad_yes: The “norm” is what the Church teaches, not a pastor’s personal preference:

THE CELEBRATION OF THE SACRAMENT

Can. 960 Individual and integral confession and absolution constitute the sole ordinary means by which a member of the faithful who is conscious of grave sin is reconciled with God and with the Church. Physical or moral impossibility alone excuses from such confession, in which case reconciliation may be attained by other means also.

Can. 961 §1 General absolution, without prior individual confession, cannot be given to a number of penitents together, unless:
1° danger of death threatens and there is not time for the priest or priests to hear the confessions of the individual penitents;
2° there exists a grave necessity, that is, given the number of penitents, there are not enough confessors available properly to hear the individual confessions within an appropriate time, so that without fault of their own the penitents are deprived of the sacramental grace or of holy communion for a lengthy period of time. A sufficient necessity is not, however, considered to exist when confessors cannot be available merely because of a great gathering of penitents, such as can occur on some major feastday or pilgrimage.
§2 It is for the diocesan Bishop to judge whether the conditions required in §1, n. 2° are present; mindful of the criteria agreed with the other members of the Episcopal Conference, he can determine the cases of such necessity.

Can. 962 §1 For a member of Christ’s faithful to benefit validly from a sacramental absolution given to a number of people simultaneously, it is required not only that he or she be properly disposed, but be also at the same time personally resolved to confess in due time each of the grave sins which cannot for the moment be thus confessed.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I live in the Diocese of Albany and previously lived in the Diocese of Syracuse (Eastern and Central New York, respectively). In both places all the parishes I’ve been involved with offered both individual confession times (sometimes only after either daily or Sunday mass and you have to catch the priest before he leaves and ask for confession, but at least it is an official, published time for confession, and large communal penance services each Lent, and sometimes Advent. “Or by appointment” is generally added to any list of times Reconciliation is offered.

In these penance services there is always individual confession. I can see how one could get confused and think the term means a service with general absolution, but that is not what is meant and in this neck of the woods I think most everyone knows it means a short service with individual confessions/absolutions following, often with several priests to choose from, not general absolution.

In my experience these penance services are usually very well attended, which is great, but the vast majority of people seem to go to confession only at those services, once or twice a year, while receiving communion every Sunday, which is probably not so great.

 

[OraLabora]

As noted above, these services also have individual confession with a (or several) priests. At least they do in my parish.

Please try to see it from the POV of overworked clergy. In my parish priests typically have to do more than one Mass on Sunday and is either arriving minutes before Mass or leaving shortly after. And as we live in a rural area the distances between parishes can be significant. Is it better to have more opportunities for confession, or Mass available to all every Sunday?

And also as noted, confession by appointment is possible if in a spot of difficulty. Also, even though this is the norm in my parish as well, I have never been turned down when asking for confession 10 or 15 min. before Mass, if the priest was available, when I really needed it.

 

[Brendan]

I
In these penance services there is always individual confession. I can see how one could get confused and think the term means a service with general absolution, but that is not what is meant and in this neck of the woods I think most everyone knows it means a short service with individual confessions/absolutions following, often with several priests to choose from, not general absolution.

In my experience these penance services are usually very well attended, which is great, but the vast majority of people seem to go to confession only at those services, once or twice a year, while receiving communion every Sunday, which is probably not so great.

I don’t think that anybody was confusing the penance service with a service with general absolution. Most parishes do have such services during Advent and Lent and I too think they are great.

The issue is that those seem to be the only regularly scheduled opportunity at this parish, and that is not good. A parish should have regularly scheduled opportunities to recieve this sacrament.

Now it might be a case where this is a cluster parish and the priest is not in residence. But even so, the priest should take some time to hear confessions at any and all of his parishes.

This is second ONLY to offering the Mass in the list of what priests should be doing. Third comes offering the Sacrament of the Sick. Any other duties are substantially below these in importance.

FYI, in addition to regular Saturday confessions, my pastor hears confessions for a half hour before every Mass, every day of the week.

 

[OraLabora]

This is second ONLY to offering the Mass in the list of what priests should be doing. Third comes offering the Sacrament of the Sick. Any other duties are substantially below these in importance.

FYI, in addition to regular Saturday confessions, my pastor hears confessions for a half hour before every Mass, every day of the week.

The thing is with ministering to the ill, often times there is only one priest available and the illness does not always respect a schedule. Which kind of throws the order of priorities out of kilter. I have seen it happen. I have even seen a priest turn up late for Mass because he had to attend to the needs of a couple who had a stillborn baby.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I don’t think that anybody was confusing the penance service with a service with general absolution. Most parishes do have such services during Advent and Lent and I too think they are great.

The issue is that those seem to be the only regularly scheduled opportunity at this parish, and that is not good. A parish should have regularly scheduled opportunities to recieve this sacrament.

Now it might be a case where this is a cluster parish and the priest is not in residence. But even so, the priest should take some time to hear confessions at any and all of his parishes.

This is second ONLY to offering the Mass in the list of what priests should be doing. Third comes offering the Sacrament of the Sick. Any other duties are substantially below these in importance.

FYI, in addition to regular Saturday confessions, my pastor hears confessions for a half hour before every Mass, every day of the week.

If you look above, individual/general absolution was indeed a point of confusion. But in my opinion you are right, there should be scheduled times confession is available every week.

I’m a little jealous that you go to a parish where confession is scheduled before mass rather than after. I’ve never seen that done in real life, but it seems so much better to me, so someone who came to the church in mortal sin can attend mass and receive the Eucharist right after being absolved, rather than sitting through a mass without receiving or trying to time their arrival just right so they can come in after mass but before the priest leaves. I imagine the reason for having it after mass instead of before is so no one has to be turned away or told to hurry it up so the priest can get ready for mass before it starts.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

… I imagine the reason for having it after mass instead of before is so no one has to be turned away or told to hurry it up so the priest can get ready for mass before it starts.

Also, many priests [hopefully most] want some quiet prayer time before mass to prepare for it. I try to get people to wait until after mass if they want to see him - to bless rosaries, answer a question, etc.

 

[Phemie]

I’m a little jealous that you go to a parish where confession is scheduled before mass rather than after. I’ve never seen that done in real life, but it seems so much better to me, so someone who came to the church in mortal sin can attend mass and receive the Eucharist right after being absolved, rather than sitting through a mass without receiving or trying to time their arrival just right so they can come in after mass but before the priest leaves. I imagine the reason for having it after mass instead of before is so no one has to be turned away or told to hurry it up so the priest can get ready for mass before it starts.

When we had scheduled confession in my parish it was always before Mass, starting 45 minutes before and ending 15 minutes before Mass so that the priest could get ready to celebrate.

Scheduled confessions came to a screeching halt when the pastor we had from 2004-08 said he didn’t want to spend 30 minutes in the Reconciliation Room waiting for people who never came. Now you have to either call for an appointment or tap the priest on the shoulder if he shows up in the church more than 5 minutes before Mass. Otherwise it’s wait for the Advent & Lent Penitential Services.

Of course we had 10 years of General Absolution prior to that so people fell out of the confession habit.

 

[Brendan]

The thing is with ministering to the ill, often times there is only one priest available and the illness does not always respect a schedule. Which kind of throws the order of priorities out of kilter. I have seen it happen. I have even seen a priest turn up late for Mass because he had to attend to the needs of a couple who had a stillborn baby.

I understand when a priest would have to cancel a scheduled confession to administer the Sacraments to the sick, but that is not a reason for not scheduling regular confession hours in the first place.