Comic Book Will "Marry Superheroes"

[tomarin]

The problem is that many children boys especially love comic book characters and I would say this starts around age 8. They are in Happy Meal toys and now Legos new series is super heroes which I doubt will take off like Star Wars only because of the constant bad press because the comic characters have lost their innocence so to speak.

Superman liked Lane but that was about it - now today everything gets more complex and I think that has ruined the whole thing. Hollywoods keep making movies trying to revive them but I think because of all this stuff, parents are staying away from them

For the toy market, that has got to hurt sales

Have you seen the videos . They have events where people come dressed as superheroes but it is like a gay pride parade. The gay crowd gets involved and takes over the event.

Silver Age characters were tormented by inner demons and tended to be misunderstood by the general public (in the world of the comic books, that is); those were some of the hallmark features of Marvel Comics – along with the groundbreaking idea that you could have heroes or characters from one title crossing over into another. Then more recently (beginning in the 1980’s with Alan Moore and Frank Miller) there was this craze for the darkness of everything to be ratcheted up to the breaking point. I think that that in turn became something of a parody of itself, and I’m sure our friend Jharek can comment on the history in more detail and depth than I am able to.

As for gay characters I think there have been some that were openly self-identifying as such or “in the closet” as it were for some time previously, such as North Star of Alpha Flight. I’d prefer if that stuff stayed out of the comics but at the same time there is such a thing as artistic license and I’m uncomfortable saying to the artist, “this or that is off the table.”

 

[gam197]

s but at the same time there is such a thing as artistic license and I’m uncomfortable saying to the artist, “this or that is off the table.”

Does artistic license give anyone the write to do anything. Suppose it was a man have sex with an animal. That has been going on forever so that makes it ok to put in comic books that were originally intended for young boys.

Why make a "Happy Meal Toy which is really geared to 2-6 year olds with the Green Lantern which they just did a month or so ago and then come out that Green Lantern is gay. Lego which manufactures alot of items has got to be losing money on its new series. Parents watch this stuff and Legos employs many people so if sales are down in toys, everyone loses.

What do we owe our children.I just glad many parents are informed and let the toy industry hurt. In fact, write or call Lego and tell them why you won’t buy this series.

 

[Crescentinus]

This whole business of “rebooting” is all very unnatural to me. But that said, where do they go from here? Especially considering that the fan base appears to be aging men, there are no longer any ads in the comic books, they are sold directly to comic book shops and not available on newsstands anymore, and the industry is regarded less as an artistic medium in its own right than as an incubation factory for movie ideas.

Indeed. Why reboot a perfectly good story? So that some perverted slasher gets to masturbate to it?

 

[tomarin]

Does artistic license give anyone the write to do anything. Suppose it was a man have sex with an animal. That has been going on forever so that makes it ok to put in comic books that were originally intended for young boys.

So you’re perfectly willing to sacrifice free artistic expression in your moral crusade? What entity is going to do the moral policing of the comic book industry by the way? I honestly don’t think people today will stand for the government or the church telling them what they can or can’t read.

I read a book about the history of comic books once which made the arresting point that the generation of Americans (the author was French) before the Comics Code was instituted went to the Moon, won the battle of Normandy and did many other heroic things whereas the generation after the Code lost themselves in an orgy of druggy navel-gazing. So be careful what you wish for.

 

[tomarin]

Indeed. Why reboot a perfectly good story? So that some perverted slasher gets to masturbate to it?

No it’s nothing to do with that. They reboot things so that the contemporary writers won’t be hindered by many years of accumulated plot lines and character development and can have a free hand in being innovative and shaking things up. That’s my understanding at least.

 

[Crescentinus]

No it’s nothing to do with that. They reboot things so that the contemporary writers won’t be hindered by many years of accumulated plot lines and character development and can have a free hand in being innovative and shaking things up. That’s my understanding at least.

I thought that they have caved in to the slashers…

 

[marvinb1]

Does artistic license give anyone the write to do anything. Suppose it was a man have sex with an animal. That has been going on forever so that makes it ok to put in comic books that were originally intended for young boys.

Why make a "Happy Meal Toy which is really geared to 2-6 year olds with the Green Lantern which they just did a month or so ago and then come out that Green Lantern is gay. Lego which manufactures alot of items has got to be losing money on its new series. Parents watch this stuff and Legos employs many people so if sales are down in toys, everyone loses.

What do we owe our children.I just glad many parents are informed and let the toy industry hurt. In fact, write or call Lego and tell them why you won’t buy this series.

are you speacking hypotheticly or are you aware that in the new dc multiverse the earth two green lantern alen scott not hal jordan is gay

 

[gam197]

originally posted by tomarin
So you’re perfectly willing to sacrifice free artistic expression in your moral crusade?

Is artistic expression allowed to exclude any dimension of a moral code. What would Aquinas think of such?

Isn’t that where we are today when artists can smear Christ with urine and call it artistic expression?

What have catholic historians written on artist expression?

originally posted by marvinb1

are you speacking hypotheticly or are you aware that in the new dc multiverse the earth two green lantern alen scott not hal jordan is gay

I read another thread on Green Lantern but really don’t read comic books but love comic heroes and would love for the kids I am around to really love them too but have declined any interest in showing them these comic heroes because of all the controversy around them. I’d been the first out there to buy the Lego and Happy meals but I totally avoid them and I am sure I am not alone in parenting this way.

 

[tomarin]

Is artistic expression allowed to exclude any dimension of a moral code. What would Aquinas think of such?

Isn’t that where we are today when artists can smear Christ with urine and call it artistic expression?

What have catholic historians written on artist expression?

I think we have a classical or traditional aesthetic of artistic beauty that clashes with a modern or post-modern one. Not much we can do about it except try to promote the former and point out the defects of the latter.

 

[Pat_Payne]

I was just reading an entry on Jim Shooter’s blog (which looks like it’s on hiatus) in which he was talking about the explosion of sex in comics. (I was debating posting the link to the article here, but I won’t, as it does include suggestive panels he was using to illustrate his point. The blog as a whole is at www.jimshooter.com) Shooter is not against sex in comics per se, but he is against explotative or gratuitous sex in comics. If there is a reason for there to be a sex scene, if it truly is integral to the story that the writer wants to tell, if it is appropriate to the age group that the story is targeted to and if it is tastefully done (i.e. not just there to get porn into the comic), his point is it shouldn’t be a problem.

He argued, though, that many writers don’t take those points into consideration. A BIG case in point was a two-issue arc in Action Comics in the '80s, where John Byrne has Superman and Big Barda kidnapped by an exterrestrial porn producer to make a X-rated film and I am not making this up. And, yes, it got published. Shooter straight-up said that if Byrne had pulled that while they both were at Marvel, he would have shot the story down in flames, superstar artist or no.

I’d say the same goes for gays in comics. If there is a real reason in the story the character has to be acknowledged explicitly as gay, then by all means include that character. If it is only for shock value, or to have a token homosexual or as a publicity stunt, or anything that is NOT dictated by a story-driven reason, then why bother? Writers don’t usually make much mention of a character’s heterosexuality unless he or she is in a romantic relationship, after all. In most cases, it’s immaterial.

 

[tomarin]

I’d say the same goes for gays in comics. If there is a real reason in the story the character has to be gay, then by all means include that character. If it is only for shock value, or to have a token homosexual or as a publicity stunt, or anything that is NOT dictated by a story-driven reason, then why bother? Writers don’t usually make much mention of a character’s heterosexuality unless he or she is in a romantic relationship, after all. In most cases, it’s immaterial.

Very thoughtful post, and very close to my own way of looking at this.

 

[Pat_Payne]

Though in fairness, this was mostly Shooter firmly and in no uncertain terms shutting down already-existing natter, as under the previous EiC, the Hulk writers had all but declared Banner gay through innuendo.

The other thing you have to remember is that he often felt he had to take actions like that – not only was he the chief editor and so had to herd cats on the creative side, but he was also answerable to Cadence, who at the time owned Marvel. And they were not interested in bad PR stories like “Hulk Turn Gay!” He also, reading the blog, took his role as safeguard of the characters more seriously than many today.

He did the same in Secret Wars, where he introduced a romantic subplot for Colossus, having him fall in love with a beautiful healer who gets killed halfway through the story arc. This was to bulldoze the Kitty Pryde/Colossus pairing that Chris Claremont had introduced, a pairing that did not sit well with Shooter due to the fact that Kitty was still a minor at that point in the continuity. To his credit, Claremont ran with it and gave us some of his best writing in X-Men 181 (IIRC).

 

[gam197]

Originally the books were geared to the youth and the toy industry followed but again this seems to be highjacked by the older generation 18-30.

With events such as Dragon.Con and Wonder Con and Comic Con, I guess comic books are really adult books and even the comic character movies are more geared to adults.

The toy industry is trying to stay in there on these characters and I think parent will shy away because they are not made for youth anymore. That is the sad part to me as parents are always looking for something for youth to aspire to become - a model citizen with super powers doing good things for the universe.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Con

These are the events as I wrote before that look more like a gay pride parade then a comic book hero event - again adult fantasy.

 

[tomarin]

Though in fairness, this was mostly Shooter firmly and in no uncertain terms shutting down already-existing natter, as under the previous EiC, the Hulk writers had all but declared Banner gay through innuendo.

The other thing you have to remember is that he often felt he had to take actions like that – not only was he the chief editor and so had to herd cats on the creative side, but he was also answerable to Cadence, who at the time owned Marvel. And they were not interested in bad PR stories like “Hulk Turn Gay!” He also, reading the blog, took his role as safeguard of the characters more seriously than many today.

He did the same in Secret Wars, where he introduced a romantic subplot for Colossus, having him fall in love with a beautiful healer who gets killed halfway through the story arc. This was to bulldoze the Kitty Pryde/Colossus pairing that Chris Claremont had introduced, a pairing that did not sit well with Shooter due to the fact that Kitty was still a minor at that point in the continuity. To his credit, Claremont ran with it and gave us some of his best writing in X-Men 181 (IIRC).

Wow, you really know your Marvel. Who was the previous Editor in Chief you’re referring to above?

 

[Pat_Payne]

Wow, you really know your Marvel. Who was the previous Editor in Chief you’re referring to above?

I’m not 100% sure but I think it was either Marv Wolfman or Archie Goodwin.

 

[Crescentinus]

I think we have a classical or traditional aesthetic of artistic beauty that clashes with a modern or post-modern one. Not much we can do about it except try to promote the former and point out the defects of the latter.

Does this mean that slashfics can be criticized?

 

[gam197]

The ‘Avengers’ is playing in our area which is fine. It is rated PG-13 as most of the comic hero movie are but what makes it a bit controversial in that at the drive-in, the first movie is Brave.

Brave is a pixar movie geared to 3-10 year olds I would think. Disney owns both Pixar and Marvel so they are trying to combine but to me they are too very different audiences.

Families need something to do. There are many of these forums who won’t even touch Disney films.

The so-called family movie industry wants us just to get over gay marriage or gay relations in the comic book area, accept them and blend them into everyday life.

 

[The_Fox]

If you think THAT is bad, just wait, because I’ve heard that comic books will soon be published which contain one or more of the following:

-Murder
-Theft
-Adultery
-Children that disobey their parents
-Drug use

and much, much more.

This will mark a major shift in the themes covered by comic books, as they almost never contained any of these sinful activities before.

I’ve also heard rumors that there is this new playwright from Warwickshire that is producing works featuring incest and prostitution. This is an unprecedented development.

This is a unique time, never has Satan been working so hard to devour our children’s souls.

There are comics from the 40s that contain these themes. Comics have never been fully clean.

 

[The_Fox]

This is what they used to have instead of the authority. interdependently run.

comicartville.com/newagesdellpledgeth.jpg

 

[Pat_Payne]

That’s not the first time I’ve heard of something like that – in Japan, back in '88, Studio Ghibli did a double feature of Grave of the Fireflies (a grim war drama about two children trying to survive in the wake of the March, 1945 firebombing of Tokyo) and My Neighbor Totoro (a innoffensive piece of light children’s fantasy), played in that order.

Apparently, the director of Grave had intended the movie to be very much a “take that” and a “you suck” to the teenagers of the time, who were propelling Japan into two decades of relative juvenile disorder, and Grave was meant to shame them by showing them what their parents and grandparents had had to endure so they could live their carefree lives. Totoro, I can only assume, was put at the end to help lighten the mood somewhat (and because when the double feature was shown with a reversed billing, audiences would leave after Totoro).