Coming back to Rome

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rben20

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Hello Catholics,

We have seen the recent inclusion of Anglicans who can keep their liturgical traditions but must adhere to Catholic doctrine and the Pope. Others not so recent include the Eastern Catholic churches. Does this mean in the future if Lutherans or Episcopalians come back they will be allowed to keep their traditions provided they accept Catholic teaching and adherence to the Pope?
 
rben20 said:
Hello Catholics,

We have seen the recent inclusion of Anglicans who can keep their liturgical traditions but must adhere to Catholic doctrine and the Pope. Others not so recent include the Eastern Catholic churches. Does this mean in the future if Lutherans or Episcopalians come back they will be allowed to keep their traditions provided they accept Catholic teaching and adherence to the Pope?
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Possibly. But we’ll see a “Lutheran Use” Mass first, the same way the Anglican Use came way before the Ordinariate. Episcopailians are Anglicans so they will be part of the Anglican Ordinariate. I don’t know much about the Lutheran Liturgy to say how that will work. But there are important elements in every valid Liturgy that should be present and for sure the Church will make sure those parts are there before approving their Liturgy as Catholic.

Since these groups originally were Roman Catholics, they’ll all fall under the Roman Church rather than be a sui juris of their own. I know some Anglicans were hoping to be an Anglican Church sui juris. Some are still hopeful that the future is headed that way.
 
It’s interesting to think about but you are correct ConstantineTG, they cannot be sui juris as they were once Roman Catholics. It just got me thinking as lately I have been debating on attending an Anglican Mass through the Catholic Church for the experience. I wondered if one day I would have an option of the other traditions but who knows? Seems like it will be far too long of a process. Why is it that Eastern Churches are regarded as sui juris? Because they were never a part of the Roman Church?
 
rben20 said:
It’s interesting to think about but you are correct ConstantineTG, they cannot be sui juris as they were once Roman Catholics. It just got me thinking as lately I have been debating on attending an Anglican Mass through the Catholic Church for the experience. I wondered if one day I would have an option of the other traditions but who knows? Seems like it will be far too long of a process. Why is it that Eastern Churches are regarded as sui juris? Because they were never a part of the Roman Church?
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Because they were never part of the Roman Church. Some would argue that Christianity existed there before the Roman Catholics took over. But isn’t King Henry VIII Roman Catholic?

Same with Lutherans, Luther was Roman Catholic.
 
rben20 said:
Hello Catholics,

We have seen the recent inclusion of Anglicans who can keep their liturgical traditions but must adhere to Catholic doctrine and the Pope. Others not so recent include the Eastern Catholic churches. Does this mean in the future if Lutherans or Episcopalians come back they will be allowed to keep their traditions provided they accept Catholic teaching and adherence to the Pope?
Click to expand...
Eastern Catholics are not “recent inclusions.” As they are Catholic, they have always been so.
 
rben20 said:
It’s interesting to think about but you are correct ConstantineTG, they cannot be sui juris as they were once Roman Catholics. It just got me thinking as lately I have been debating on attending an Anglican Mass through the Catholic Church for the experience. I wondered if one day I would have an option of the other traditions but who knows? Seems like it will be far too long of a process. Why is it that Eastern Churches are regarded as sui juris? Because they were never a part of the Roman Church?
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There are several Anglican Use Catholic parishes in Texas. I don’t know where you live, but it might be a good experience for you to attend one of their liturgies.

The largest one is Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio. It has been around for over 28 years. Now that an Ordinariate is being established, I assume the liturgy will have some changes made, hopefully closer to the Anglican Missal, which is very close to the the Traditiional Latin Mass. If interested you can view the AU Mass on You Tube by going to Our Lady of the Atonement’s website. They have two different ones, the first one is the High Mass celebrated on Sundays.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Curious1324 said:
Eastern Catholics are not “recent inclusions.” As they are Catholic, they have always been so.
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Actually, only the Maronites were never out-of-communion with Rome. At one point and another in history, the Eastern Churches separated from Rome. Then little by little, factions from those separated Churches came back into communion with Rome.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Actually, only the Maronites were never out-of-communion with Rome. At one point and another in history, the Eastern Churches separated from Rome. Then little by little, factions from those separated Churches came back into communion with Rome.
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Precisely
 
BernadetteM said:
There are several Anglican Use Catholic parishes in Texas. I don’t know where you live, but it might be a good experience for you to attend one of their liturgies.

The largest one is Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio. It has been around for over 28 years. Now that an Ordinariate is being established, I assume the liturgy will have some changes made, hopefully closer to the Anglican Missal, which is very close to the the Traditiional Latin Mass. If interested you can view the AU Mass on You Tube by going to Our Lady of the Atonement’s website. They have two different ones, the first one is the High Mass celebrated on Sundays.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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Hello Bernadette,

I live about a hour and thirty minutes from Houston. Last time I checked it was Our Lady of Walsingham that offered the Anglican Mass through the permissions of Daniel Cardinal DiNardo. I like to visit Houston from time to time on the weekends in order to attend Mass whether it be a traditional Latin mass, the Divine Liturgy (Ruthenian), and now possibly an Anglican Mass 🙂 Wish I lived there just to experience it every Sunday
 
rben20 said:
Hello Bernadette,

I live about a hour and thirty minutes from Houston. Last time I checked it was Our Lady of Walsingham that offered the Anglican Mass through the permissions of Daniel Cardinal DiNardo. I like to visit Houston from time to time on the weekends in order to attend Mass whether it be a traditional Latin mass, the Divine Liturgy (Ruthenian), and now possibly an Anglican Mass 🙂 Wish I lived there just to experience it every Sunday
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OLW has had a very good relationship with the Bishop. This has been the problem with the Anglican Use, many liberal Bishops would not allow an AU parish in their dioceses. Now with the Ordinariate this will not be a problem. The Holy Father, CDF and the Ordinaray of the Ordinariate makes these decisions.

Hopefully the Ordinariate will grow, so that there will be a parish in every diocese or even more.

There are many Latin Rite Catholics who have joined these parishes and many traditional Catholics who support the Ordinariate. Of course some who only attend the SSPX Mass and won’t accept the liturgy other than the TLM have critized them. Not all be any means, many are happy because as Pope Benedict seems to feel, these very traditional parishes will hopefully help to bring back the Reform of the Reform in a positive way.

God Bless

Bernadette
 
rben20 said:
Hello Catholics,

We have seen the recent inclusion of Anglicans who can keep their liturgical traditions but must adhere to Catholic doctrine and the Pope. Others not so recent include the Eastern Catholic churches. Does this mean in the future if Lutherans or Episcopalians come back they will be allowed to keep their traditions provided they accept Catholic teaching and adherence to the Pope?
Click to expand...
Right now the answer is no, Lutherans coming back home today will come back in whatever specific Rite they choose (Eastern, Roman etc). This doesn’t preclude the possibibilty that some might get their own constitution, I imagine this might depend on the forcefulness of the petitions, and the compatilibty of the liturgical expression with the Doctrine of Faith. It’s possible we might have a Lutheran use, and I know there are Lutherans petitioning for just this.
 
Would Anglicans coming home be considered Traditional Catholics in the sense that they have an old Liturgy they’ve had for centuries and that those who elelct to reunite are the conservative ones?
 
The majority of Anglicans joining the Ordinariate, at least in the US, are probably Anglo Catholics. However there are also some from the more evangelical parishes also coming in.

I would say they are all conservative, otherwise why even leave TEC in the first place.

Although many from the outside always seem to imply that it is because of women priests and the homosexual issue, the Anglican Communion has departed from orthodox doctrines on many issues, i.e. the Ressurection, the divinity of Christ etc. In fact I know for a fact a former bishop of a large diocese (now retired) doesn’t believe in the Ressurection.

The problem as I see it, is that there is no standard belief by leadership that one must accept these doctrines as there is in the Catholic Church. Yes there are individuals who might disagree with Church doctrine/teachings, but the Church itself stands firmly and does not change because some individuals don’t accept the teachings.

What I find odd is that there are so many different groups of Continuing Anglicans and they are not in communion with one another. As former members of TEC or the Anglican Communion they were all unified, although they either considered themselves as low church, broad church, high church or Anglo Catholic, yet still remained united.

Also there have been many Anglicans who attack those who are entering the Ordinariate, they also seem to attack other groups of Anglicans. It just has turned into a mess.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
BernadetteM said:
The majority of Anglicans joining the Ordinariate, at least in the US, are probably Anglo Catholics. However there are also some from the more evangelical parishes also coming in.

I would say they are all conservative, otherwise why even leave TEC in the first place.

Although many from the outside always seem to imply that it is because of women priests and the homosexual issue, the Anglican Communion has departed from orthodox doctrines on many issues, i.e. the Ressurection, the divinity of Christ etc. In fact I know for a fact a former bishop of a large diocese (now retired) doesn’t believe in the Ressurection.

The problem as I see it, is that there is no standard belief by leadership that one must accept these doctrines as there is in the Catholic Church. Yes there are individuals who might disagree with Church doctrine/teachings, but the Church itself stands firmly and does not change because some individuals don’t accept the teachings.

What I find odd is that there are so many different groups of Continuing Anglicans and they are not in communion with one another. As former members of TEC or the Anglican Communion they were all unified, although they either considered themselves as low church, broad church, high church or Anglo Catholic, yet still remained united.

Also there have been many Anglicans who attack those who are entering the Ordinariate, they also seem to attack other groups of Anglicans. It just has turned into a mess.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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Thanks for painting a picture. I can now understand more why those who are in line with Catholic teaching anyway would want to associate with us rather than other Anglicans who seem to believe in anything.
 
BernadetteM said:
Also there have been many Anglicans who attack those who are entering the Ordinariate, they also seem to attack other groups of Anglicans. It just has turned into a mess.
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A knowledgeable traditionalist wouldn’t attack all Anglicans. After all it was Agatha Christie, an Anglican, who finally convinced Pope Paul to preserve the Traditional Latin Mass. If anyone should be canonized…🙂
 
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