Coming from only Adam and Eve?

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buffalo said:
Pay attention to this footnote the Pope put in Humani Generis.
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buffalo said:
despite being in the midst of so many living things, man felt sad and lonely and attempted in vain to find a face which looked like him and which would contain a ray of that Divine Image which shines out of the eyes of every son of Adam. Only from man could there come another man who would then call him father and ancestor; and the helpmate given by God to the first man came from man himself and is flesh from his flesh, made into a woman and called such because she came from man
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This fits the theory put forth, too. All the other creatures wouldn’t “contain a ray of the Divine Image” – except for another ensouled human (which, in the context of this narrative, didn’t exist until God created a second ensouled human).

No matter how much you try to make the theory appear to contradict the teaching of the Church… it doesn’t. 😉
edwest said:
Not going to fly here.
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I agree. Your case just doesn’t get off the ground. 😉
edwest said:
Easy. They had kids with other humans.
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Right. “Humans” means “hominins with souls.” And, yes… the theory agrees with you – the only folks who are humans are those who are born of (ensouled) humans. In other words… you agree with the theory, even though you think you don’t. 😉
 
No I don’t. Souls aren’t recognized by science. End of story.
 
edwest said:
No I don’t. Souls aren’t recognized by science. End of story.
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And therefore, science can’t answer theological questions. That’s why the scientific theory of evolution cannot conflict with Christian theology. So glad you’ve finally hit upon the answer. 👍
 
What answer? Original Sin is dogma. Catholics can’t ignore that. Catholic Answers:

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” ( Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”
 
edwest said:
What answer? Original Sin is dogma.
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Right. Science can’t answer questions about dogma. Folks who worship science can’t turn to it to answer questions about dogma. Folks who think evolution is anti-Christian fail to realize that science can’t possibly respond to questions about dogma. In other words, ya’ll are tilting against windmills.
 
buffalo said:
Nope. These chapters are to be taken literally, as to what the author intended to convey and as always understood by the Church.
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You mean that 5,000-some years ago Earth was created in 7 days and humans lived side-by-side with dinosaurs? Not to go off thread into evolution, but the Church doesn’t teach the literal Creation story.
 
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edwest said:
For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” ( Humani Generis 37).
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I have read this over and over and over again over the years. I still don’t understand what it’s saying.
  • For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents.
I take this to mean that:
  1. Catholics are forbidden to have the opinion that:
    A. not all humans are descended from Adam
    B. Adam refers to a collective of ancestral parents
  • Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed
  1. If alternative explanations that are compatible with Church doctrine exist, we haven’t found them yet.
  • the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own
  1. The Church’s proposal is that original sin was committed by Adam and passed on to everyone who came after him.
Interesting that the Pope used the word ‘proposal’ and not conclusion. It’s as if he’s leaving the door open to better alternatives. And yet, no one is allowed to question the proposal.

And as for the part about “true men,” that leaves a little wiggle room also. Were there men who weren’t true men? What’s a true man?
 
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on_the_hill said:
Not to go off thread into evolution, but the Church doesn’t teach the literal Creation story.
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Yes, it does.
  • God created everything “in its whole substance” from nothing ( ex nihilo ) in the beginning.
    (Lateran IV; Vatican Council I)
  • Genesis does not contain purified myths. (Pontifical Biblical Commission 1909[1])
  • Genesis contains real history—it gives an account of things that really happened. (Pius XII)
  • Adam and Eve were real human beings—the first parents of all mankind. (Pius XII)
  • Polygenism (many “first parents”) contradicts Scripture and Tradition and is condemned. (Pius XII; 1994 Catechism, 360, footnote 226: Tobit 8:6—the “one ancestor” referred to in this Catechism could only be Adam.)
  • The “beginning” of the world included the creation of all things, the creation of Adam and Eve and the Fall (Jesus Christ [ Mark 10:6]; Pope Innocent III; Blessed Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus ).
  • The body of Eve was specially created from a portion of Adam’s body (Leo XIII). She could not have originated via evolution.
  • Various senses are employed in the Bible, but the literal obvious sense must be believed unless reason dictates or necessity requires (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus ).
  • Adam and Eve were created upon an earthly paradise and would not have known death if they had remained obedient (Pius XII).
  • After their disobedience of God, Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden. But the Second Person of the Trinity would subsequently pay the ransom for fallen man (Nicene Creed).
  • Original Sin is a flawed condition inherited from Adam and Eve (Council of Trent).
  • The Universe suffers in travail ever since the sin of disobedience by Adam and Eve. (Romans 8, Vatican Council I).
  • We must believe any interpretation of Scripture that the Fathers taught unanimously on a matter of faith or morals (Council of Trent and Vatican Council I).
  • All the Fathers who wrote on the subject believed that the Creation days were no longer than 24-hour-days. (Consensus of the Fathers of the Church)
  • The work of Creation was finished by the close of Day Six, and nothing completely new has since been created—except for each human rational soul at conception (Vatican Council I)
  • St. Peter and Christ Himself in the New Testament confirmed the global Flood of Noah. It covered all the then high mountains and destroyed all land dwelling creatures except eight human beings andall kinds of non-human creatures aboard the Ark ( Unam Sanctam , 1302)
 
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