'Coming out of the closet': An act of courage?

[EasterJoy]

I personally think that people should keep their mouths shut and keep their sexuality to themselves. Giving attention to people because they announce they have a particular sexual preference is simply ridiculous.

Having said that, there is also no shame in having a homosexual orientation and there is no moral obligation to hide pertinent facts about yourself. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered, but homosexual persons have a dignity equal to any other child of God. We aren’t in the habit now of telling each other publicly what kind of burdens we labor with, but that doesn’t mean it is morally forbidden.

The truth is, I do not see any reason to believe that this orientation might not be a coin with two sides, one side with certain temptations but the other side with certain gifts. The truth is, it is like that with so many aspects of being human that it would be a wonder if this were some exception. It would be a pity in any event if homosexuals were to feel they were some kind of shameful pariah, as we all need to feel free to connect to others as we are in order to give and accept the human love that we all need. Sometimes it is not “wanting attention” that is needed, but simply the knowledge that one is loved all the same when one is known more completely.

Besides: It would make it a lot easier to explain why the person isn’t looking for a spouse. I imagine many would find that alone a great relief, as other people often try very hard to find spouses for the wonderful single people they know.

 

[AloysiusBologna]

-]/-]Act of Courage or Cowardice? Perhaps a cry for help? A desperation for love?

How many times have we created justifications for that which we probably know is not for the better good and not in accordance with traditional understandings of God’s plan? We haven’t seen as much media attention given to those trying to feed and nurture hope have we?

Occasionally a high profile person comes out of the proverbial closet and says that he’s gay. The secular media and other famous people then congratulate the person and usually laud him for his courage, others, call him a hero and award him all sorts of accolades.

Do you guys also agree that such people deserve hero status? :nope:

Personally I’m not sure what to think. Having SSA is definitely a heavy cross to bear, and if someone discloses that to get help, then fine. But, when some of these people come out through the front, cover of magazines, paid interviews, organized press conferences, YouTube videos and all that, and then gain endorsments at the back of that announcement, and promotes same-sexual behaviour, I can only sigh and shake my head.

What do you guys think?

Hero Status…No! Should we condemn ? I don’t think so… Let us search for someone eligible to cast the first stone…"…meanwhile lettuce spray…"…

:nope::nope::nope:

 

[EasterJoy]

I went to both high school and college in the Midwest. It may not have been that way everywhere, but it was certainly my experience even that long ago. And it is even more true today that all these celebrities who come out are lauded.

I’m not at all pleased with the media situation where homosexual partnerships are being treated as if they were simply one more kind of romance, the same as any other. That’s just wrong. Having said that, it was also wrong when people used words for homosexual orientation as epithets, when being known to even have an attraction for your own sex was career suicide, and when letting that information out put you in danger of becoming the victim of an assault from total strangers. That opposite end of the extremes also involved serious sins, sometimes even to the point of murder, and those sins must be strenuously opposed, too. Homosexual persons must be encouraged to live chastely, but they must be allowed to live in peace and in total dignity. Both aspects have to be defended, not just one or the other.

 

[AloysiusBologna]

****Graded Slope to Perdition or Graded Absolutism…THAT is the question! :hypno:

Let us not allow the presentation of choices to exclude the good moral alternative.

Should we applaud the “courage” of an addict announcing that he will not be deterred from driving while under the influence? A kleptomaniac who can’t control her urges? A politician who needs to deceive?

Let us not forsake a higher calling …Let us not simply allow our passions to overrule a calmer Christian judgement and jeopardize what should be our goal. Assuredly deviant behavior that dilutes morality is not the answer to world hunger nor to our spiritual salvation. We should applaud courage when it is used to serve; we should not confuse courage with submission.

Let us recognize that unless the Right to Life exists, that the right to choose cannot.

 

[holyrood]

I’m in the midwest, and am a current high school student. While my peers are generally not unkind to those with SSA, I wouldn’t say anybody gets “10 Cool Points”. Most people just don’t talk about it. I am in a fairly conservative community, though, so I guess** it isn’t necessarily the standard**.

And this is the point exactly. Things vary from one town to the next, maybe from one school to the next. Of course there are people who are bullies, who will use anything they can to bully someone they perceive as weak. Of course there are ugly things done and said to people with SSA…just as there are ugly things done and said to Christians, conservatives, overweight people, people with bad acne. And of course it’s wrong, regardless of whom it is done to.

You do note that nobody is unkind to these students.

There are also people of decades ago who were known to be homosexual, and no one cared, such as Billie Tipton.

 

[Kamaduck]

And this is the point exactly. Things vary from one town to the next, maybe from one school to the next. Of course there are people who are bullies, who will use anything they can to bully someone they perceive as weak. Of course there are ugly things done and said to people with SSA…just as there are ugly things done and said to Christians, conservatives, overweight people, people with bad acne. And of course it’s wrong, regardless of whom it is done to.

You do note that nobody is unkind to these students.

There are also people of decades ago who were known to be homosexual, and no one cared, such as Billie Tipton.

Well, it’s not that nobody is unkind. Bullying in general is rare among the honors students. People are still hush-hush about SSA. We’re taught in class that SSA is usually the result of childhood sexual abuse. In another class we were told that “all gay people are going to hell”, without any further clarification.

It’s not a public school. (It’s not Catholic, either.) Many of the teachers are hostile to it, and the student body avoids spreading things far enough that the teachers might hear about specific students. That doesn’t mean that the word “gay” isn’t used as an insult, or that people are always comfortable around those with SSA. But many of the students do take pride in being more accepting than the adults.

 

[EasterJoy]

****Graded Slope to Perdition or Graded Absolutism…THAT is the question! :hypno:

Let us not allow the presentation of choices to exclude the good moral alternative.

Should we applaud the “courage” of an addict announcing that he will not be deterred from driving while under the influence? A kleptomaniac who can’t control her urges? A politician who needs to deceive?

Let us not forsake a higher calling …Let us not simply allow our passions to overrule a calmer Christian judgement and jeopardize what should be our goal. Assuredly deviant behavior that dilutes morality is not the answer to world hunger nor to our spiritual salvation. We should applaud courage when it is used to serve; we should not confuse courage with submission.

Let us recognize that unless the Right to Life exists, that the right to choose cannot.

No, but it will be a good world when someone can get up and say, “My name is Bill, and I’m an alcoholic,” without having to do it in an anonymous group, when it is no worse to let on that you have depression than to let on that you are diabetic, and when “coming out” can be done for the simple reason that it keeps the rest of the parish wondering why such a fine person hasn’t married.

 

[pensmama87]

No, but it will be a good world when someone can get up and say, “My name is Bill, and I’m an alcoholic,” without having to do it in an anonymous group, when it is no worse to let on that you have depression than to let on that you are diabetic, and when “coming out” can be done for the simple reason that it keeps the rest of the parish wondering why such a fine person hasn’t married.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Having said that, there is also no shame in having a homosexual orientation and there is no moral obligation to hide pertinent facts about yourself. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered, but homosexual persons have a dignity equal to any other child of God. We aren’t in the habit now of telling each other publicly what kind of burdens we labor with, but that doesn’t mean it is morally forbidden.

The truth is, I do not see any reason to believe that this orientation might not be a coin with two sides, one side with certain temptations but the other side with certain gifts. The truth is, it is like that with so many aspects of being human that it would be a wonder if this were some exception. It would be a pity in any event if homosexuals were to feel they were some kind of shameful pariah, as we all need to feel free to connect to others as we are in order to give and accept the human love that we all need. Sometimes it is not “wanting attention” that is needed, but simply the knowledge that one is loved all the same when one is known more completely.

Besides: It would make it a lot easier to explain why the person isn’t looking for a spouse. I imagine many would find that alone a great relief, as other people often try very hard to find spouses for the wonderful single people they know.

Thank you for your common sense, as always. There are numerous reasons people might want to admit to being gay or having SSA. It’s not legitimate for people to – before even considering those reasons – insist that such an admission is wrong. Personally, I am not very open about my SSA (except here), but I would like to be someday – mostly because I know how lonely it is to be a teen with SSA, and I want such teenagers to feel less isolated and alone.

 

[LongingSoul]

The truth is, I do not see any reason to believe that this orientation might not be a coin with two sides, one side with certain temptations but the other side with certain gifts. The truth is, it is like that with so many aspects of being human that it would be a wonder if this were some exception. It would be a pity in any event if homosexuals were to feel they were some kind of shameful pariah, as we all need to feel free to connect to others as we are in order to give and accept the human love that we all need.

I always had a ‘gut’ feeling that this has to be true. I dunno. It just makes sense in a society that values a full gammut of godly vocations. I remember reading a book many years ago called The Healing Wisdom of Africa which made a real impact on me as feeling very ‘catholic’ even though it was about tribal wisdom. One of the points it made was to do with Shamans (which are the holy men of the tribe equivalent to the priest) and that many onlookers deemed them ‘gay’ since they seemed less attracted to women, marriage and family by nature. Their calling was naturally of a more spiritual nature. I wondered at the time if such a vocation with its affinity with the masculine ‘creator’ and masculine father-ness, sprang directly from natural law.

We live in an ultra sexualised culture. The goal of this culture is to dismantle the taboos that inhibit sexual activity and sexual activity is the focus of so many endeavours. When a person has an affair now, they leave their spouse and set up house with the new partner in the next suburb. It’s being modelled to us an an alternative choice, rather than a sad fracture of family. Why? All for the freedom to engage the sexual appetite rather than value the health of family. I wonder if someone has certain same sex attraction could it really be a sexualised reading of a same sex affinity that shamans and other vocations that require a strong identification with a ‘brotherhood’ (or sisterhood for a woman). The common perception in our culture is that a celibate vocation is strange and seemingly against nature and yet same sex coupling which the human body doesn’t even accomodate naturally… is considered normal and natural. I wonder whether this strange attitude is simply due to a blindness caused by the sexualisation of pretty much everything humans do these days?

 

[AloysiusBologna]

I always had a ‘gut’ feeling that this has to be true. I dunno. …The common perception in our culture is that a celibate vocation is strange and seemingly against nature and yet same sex coupling which the human body doesn’t even accomodate naturally… is considered normal and natural. I wonder whether this strange attitude is simply due to a blindness caused by the sexualisation of pretty much everything humans do these days?

Blindness may have many causes, but the immediate results are usually similar…

Perhaps the closet perception is related more to an environmental agnosia…

He answered them, ‘Not all men can receive this precept, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it’" (Mt 19:11-12).

 

[AloysiusBologna]

No, but it will be a good world when someone can get up and say, “My name is Bill, and I’m an alcoholic,” without having to do it in an anonymous group, when it is no worse to let on that you have depression than to let on that you are diabetic, and when “coming out” can be done for the simple reason that it keeps the rest of the parish wondering why such a fine person hasn’t married.

Yes,

:bible1:

1 John (chap 4
Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world…&…let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[CaliLobo]

Occasionally a high profile person comes out of the proverbial closet and says that he’s gay. The secular media and other famous people then congratulate the person and usually laud him for his courage, others, call him a hero and award him all sorts of accolades.

Do you guys also agree that such people deserve hero status?

Personally I’m not sure what to think. Having SSA is definitely a heavy cross to bear, and if someone discloses that to get help, then fine. But, when some of these people come out through the front, cover of magazines, paid interviews, organized press conferences, YouTube videos and all that, and then gain endorsments at the back of that announcement, and promotes same-sexual behaviour, I can only sigh and shake my head.

What do you guys think?

Despite all I’ve said about gay rights, I do agree that gays have become a de facto protected class in our culture, and receive much support and sympathy from the secular world. It is more courageous to come out as a practicing Catholic than as a gay person.