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moondweller
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I’ll ask again - can you show me where Jesus calls the 10 Commandments “My commandments?”
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Teflon93
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Sure can. Here you go:
Exodus 15:
26: And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
Exodus 16:
28: And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Exodus 20:
“1”: And God spake all these words, saying,
“2”: I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
“3”: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
“4”: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
“5”: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
“6”: And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
“7”: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
“8”: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
“9”: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
“10”: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
“11”: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
“12”: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
“13”: Thou shalt not kill.
“14”: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
“15”: Thou shalt not steal.
“16”: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
“17”: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Matthew 19:
17": And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
“18”: He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
“19”: Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
There you go.
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gcnuss
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For those who have never seen it, here is the section on the Ten Commandments from Luther’s Small Catechism:
This is the basic Lutheran teaching about the Ten Commandments. We take them seriously.
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moondweller
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Heb 8:13 "When He said, “A new {covenant,}” He has made the first obsolete."I’m glad you agree that the Law cannot give life. It’s good to agree with God’s Word:Gal 3:21-22 "For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.For man the 10 Commandments are a ministry of death and condemnation. They’re a LAW, friends, and when violated require consequences:2 Cor 3:5-9 "Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as {coming} from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate {as} servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading {as} it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
Gal 3:10 "For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman. It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.Through His shed blood on the cross Christ inaugurated a New Covenant. And that blood has GREAT significance. How is it you insist on living under the old with its ministry of death and condemnation? Unbelief? Faith is connected to the New Covenant.
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moondweller
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I’ll ask again. Can you show me where Jesus calls the 10 Commandments “My commandments?”
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Mannyfit75
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15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. - John 14:15
Let me put it this way, moondweller. Every word of the Bible is the Word of God. The Scripture itself contains Divine Revelation. What is Divine Revelation? Divine Revelation is Jesus Christ. The Word made flesh and dwell amongst us as the first Chapter of John states.
These commandments are HIS! The first Chapter of the Hebrews attest to this.
“In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power…” - Hebrew Chapter 1 verse 1 to 3.
As Letter of Hebrews state, that God spoke to the prophets but in these last days, God, the Father Almight spoken to us by His Son. If you deny that these commandments are not Jesus’ then you deny that the Eternal Word is not Jesus. You have put yourself in a position that is contrary to the Eternal Word of God himself. I would dare not cross that because by your own interpretation you have fallen into a belief that is new. God does not teach new doctrine.
If you consider the Ten Commandments as not necessary, that is something that neither Jesus, nor his Apostles, nor their successors have taught. Jesus taught us about himself. He taught us to love him, know him and serve him. How do we serve him? We serve him by keeping his precepts. What are his precepts? They are the Ten Commandments.
This really bothers me because you are trying to alter the Word of God by proclaiming that the Ten Commandments are not necessary for our faith; that they should not be followed. You are teaching something that is Outside the Word of God himself. You are swimming in dangerous waters.
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moondweller
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Can you show me here where Jesus calls the 10 Commandments “My commandments?”
Actually, those who want to be “under law” are the ones in “dangerous waters.”
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Teflon93
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Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus call the 10 Commandments “Moondweller’s Commandments.”
Likewise, nowhere in Scripture does Christ say, “Stop following the Ten Commandments”.
Christ and God being one, along with the Holy Spirit, the commandments belong to the Triune God.
Indeed, Matthew 5:
“17”: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
And fulfill he did, not breaking any Commandment.
Your argument, such as it is, either must now be:
- Christ is not God;
- Christ lied in Matthew 19 when he told the rich man to keep the Commandments to gain eternal life.
I have now asked several times:
Where in Scripture can I find Christ commanding us to disobey the Ten Commandments?
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Mannyfit75
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Jesus is eternal. When God the Father spoke to Moses and gave him the Ten Commandments, it is God’s words, not Moses. Though he may not have a body (during the time of Moses), Jesus is one with the Father.
To put it simply, where the Father is, there also the Son and the Holy Spirit will be. The three Divine Persons is One God. When the Jews ask Jesus about Abraham and Jesus. Jesus replied. “Before Abraham was I AM.” The Hebrew word is YHWH. You cannot divide Jesus and his Father. For Jesus said, the Father and I are ONE.
The original Greek of the Bible, written in a language called “Koine,” was written in unctuals. In other words, the words were written using only capitols with no spaces and no punctuation. Because of this, my capitalization merely reflects my understanding that “I Am” is a name.
You cannot take bits and pieces of the Bible like you are doing now. His commandments are HIS COMMANDMENTS!
The Old Law such as the dietary law are no longer binding, but the Commandments concerning faith and morality does apply to us Christians.
If you have a problem with the Ten Commandments, then you have a problem with God. What you are teachings is completely alien to the Christian mindset and I am afraid to say, your teaching is HERETICAL.
Those who do not obey God’s commandment are putting their soul in danger. Those who do not obey the commandment out of love for God are also putting themselves in dangerous moral ground. Do not play with the Word of God.
What is stake here is the soul. Let me ask you this question then. IF you DO not believe the Ten Commandments is not necessary, I have the right then to go out and murder everyone? Does this sound morally just to you? or I could go out and have sex with all the beautiful wives out there? This does not sound very Christian type behavior.
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Philthy
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As I said, this quest for a verse where Jesus says that the 10 Commandments are “my commandments” is a waste of time.
Nowhere does he say - verbatum - “the 10 Commandments are my commandments”. MD can ascribe whatever significance he would like to ascribe to this fact. He would, of course, have to ascribe an equal signifance to the fact that Jesus never says, “the 10 commandments are not my commandments”.
Now, can we procede to hear MD’s defense of his claim that they 10 Commandments of God (but not Jesus
) are not rules for Christian conduct? For example, which of the 10 Commandments are no longer God’s will for the conduct of every Christian?
Nowhere does he say - verbatum - “the 10 Commandments are my commandments”. MD can ascribe whatever significance he would like to ascribe to this fact. He would, of course, have to ascribe an equal signifance to the fact that Jesus never says, “the 10 commandments are not my commandments”.
Now, can we procede to hear MD’s defense of his claim that they 10 Commandments of God (but not Jesus
) are not rules for Christian conduct? For example, which of the 10 Commandments are no longer God’s will for the conduct of every Christian?
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VociMike
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Whose commandments are they? Who is the author of the 10 Commandments?
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Sean_Boyle
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Also consider that Jesus lived under the law which included the ten commandments and never broke one of them. In that since Jesus, both being fully God and fully human, made them his own by living under them.As I said, this quest for a verse where Jesus says that the 10 Commandments are “my commandments” is a waste of time.
Nowhere does he say - verbatum - “the 10 Commandments are my commandments”. MD can ascribe whatever significance he would like to ascribe to this fact. He would, of course, have to ascribe an equal signifance to the fact that Jesus never says, “the 10 commandments are not my commandments”.
Now, can we procede to hear MD’s defense of his claim that they 10 Commandments of God (but not Jesus
Yes let’s hear MD’s defense.
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VociMike
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Sounds like MD is circling close to a denial of the Trinity.
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Teflon93
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MD’s profile says “bac”—I hadn’t seen that before. What does it mean?
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VociMike
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Teflon93
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I’d never seen it abbreviated before.Born again Christian?
Hmmm, what other kind is there?
It would be an odd thing for a “born again Christian” to argue that Jesus was opposed to the Ten Commandments, much less that Jesus was not God.
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JRKH
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jimmy
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Show me where He says they are not His commandments. It is not our job to show they are His because Christ is the one who gave the law to Moses. So, yes, they are Christ’s by the very fact that He is the law giver. As Christ says in Matt.5, He did not come to abolish the law. Not one iota, not one tittle shall pass from the law until it is fulfilled. Read the words of Christ. They are clear. Christ does not teach this concept of salvation which you are preaching. He preaches salvation through a life of repentance. ‘Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ These are the very words of Christ. He preaches a faith lived. You must go out and live your faith in order to recieve salvation.
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mikeledes
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Can you point a passage in the Bible where Jesus says “I am God?” Or is it necessary for Him to explictly say something in order for it to be true? What Jesus does
say is this:
John 15:10,12
**10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
12"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. **
This is the Law of Christ. And what does this commandment mean?
Romans 13:8-9
**8Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
9For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET,” and if there is any other commandment, it is SUMMED UP in this saying, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” **
2 John 6
**6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it. **
The Bible explicitly states that the Ten Commandments are summed up in “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Jesus explicitly states that this is His commandment. Therefore, if this commandment is a summary of the 10 commandments, then when Jesus describes “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” as His commandment, then He is also saying the same about the 10 commandments.
God Bless,
Michael
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mikeledes
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Thankfully, Catholics do not believe we are justified or saved by the Old Covenant/ Mosaic Law. The Old Law only served to point to our sinfulness, but it did not provide the means for breaking the power of sin. That can only be done by the mercy and grace of God through the Cross of Christ. “The Law”/ Old Covenant is enslavement to sin:
Galatians 4:21-26
21Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?
22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.
23But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.
24This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.
25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.
Christians are not under the Law, but are under the Law of Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21-22). And what is this Law?
James 2:8
**8If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well. **
Unlike the Old Law, which means enslavement, the Law of Christ represents freedom and hence is described as the law of LIBERTY:
James 1:25
25But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.
And we are to abide by this perfect law of liberty, for by this law we shall be judged:
James 2:12
12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
God bless,
Michael
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