Commandments should not be followed ...

[JRKH]

I’ll ask again - can you show me where Jesus calls the 10 Commandments “My commandments?”

Asked and answered.
Jesus does not make this statement.
However, as has been pointed out repeatedly, He does not have to.
Jesus = God = Commandments.

Now will you please move on

Peace
James

 

[Mannyfit75]

Whose commandments are they? Who is the author of the 10 Commandments?

They are God’s Commandment. Who is God. He is Three Persons but One God. Jesus being the Second Person of the Trinity therefore is God. He is also the Word of God made flesh. God, the Father in the last days spoken to us through His Only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. God only have one Son.

To deny the Ten Commandments as Jesus’ Commandment is to deny his divinity. Moondweller is therefore challenging Jesus’ divinity. He is swimming in dangerous waters.

 

[sandusky]

Commandments should not be followed…

by Thomas Watson, from his work, “A Body of Practical Divinity”, 1692

'Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.’ Exod 20: 3.

Before I come to the commandments, I shall answer questions, and lay down rules respecting the moral law.

What is the difference between the moral laud and the gospel?

(1) The law requires that we worship God as our Creator; the gospel, that we worship him in and through Christ. God in Christ is propitious; out of him we may see God’s power, justice, and holiness: in him we see his mercy displayed.

(2) The moral law requires obedience, but gives no strength (as Pharaoh required brick, but gave no straw), but the gospel gives strength; it bestows faith on the elect; it sweetens the law; it makes us serve God with delight.

Of what use is the moral law to us?

It is a glass to show us our sins, that, seeing our pollution and misery, we may be forced to flee to Christ to satisfy for former guilt, and to save from future wrath. 'The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. Gal 3: 24.

But is the moral law still in force to believers; is it not abolished to them?

In some sense it is abolished to believers.

(1) In respect of justification. They are not justified by their obedience to the moral law. Believers are to make great use of the moral law, but they must trust only to Christ’s righteousness for justification; as Noah’s dove made use of her wings to fly, but trusted to the ark for safety. If the moral law could justify, what need was there of Christ’s dying?

(2) The moral law is abolished to believers, in respect of its curse. They are freed from its curse and condemnatory power. ‘Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us.’ Gal 3: Is.

How was Christ made a curse for us?

Considered as the Son of God, he was not made a curse, but as our pledge and surety, he was made a curse for us. Heb 7: 22. This curse was not upon his Godhead, but upon his manhood. It was the wrath of God lying upon him; and thus he took away from believers the curse of the law, by being made a curse for them. But though the moral law be thus far abolished, it remains as a perpetual rule to believers. Though it be not their Saviour, it is their guide. Though it be not foedus, a covenant of life; yet it is norma, a rule of life. Every Christian is bound to conform to it; and to write, as exactly as he can, after this copy. ‘Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid.’ Rom 3: 31. Though a Christian is not under the condemning power of the law, yet he is under its commanding power. To love God, to reverence and obey him, is a law which always binds and will bind in heaven. This I urge against the Antinomians, who say the moral law is abrogated to believers; which, as it contradicts Scripture, so it is a key to open the door to all licentiousness. They who will not have the law to rule them, shall never have the gospel to save them.See also The Law and the Gospel, by John Colquhoun

 

[Mannyfit75]

by Thomas Watson, from his work, “A Body of Practical Divinity”, 1692

'Thou shalt have no other Gods before me.’ Exod 20: 3.

Before I come to the commandments, I shall answer questions, and lay down rules respecting the moral law.

What is the difference between the moral laud and the gospel?

(1) The law requires that we worship God as our Creator; the gospel, that we worship him in and through Christ. God in Christ is propitious; out of him we may see God’s power, justice, and holiness: in him we see his mercy displayed.

(2) The moral law requires obedience, but gives no strength (as Pharaoh required brick, but gave no straw), but the gospel gives strength; it bestows faith on the elect; it sweetens the law; it makes us serve God with delight.

Of what use is the moral law to us?

It is a glass to show us our sins, that, seeing our pollution and misery, we may be forced to flee to Christ to satisfy for former guilt, and to save from future wrath. 'The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. Gal 3: 24.

But is the moral law still in force to believers; is it not abolished to them?

In some sense it is abolished to believers.

(1) In respect of justification. They are not justified by their obedience to the moral law. Believers are to make great use of the moral law, but they must trust only to Christ’s righteousness for justification; as Noah’s dove made use of her wings to fly, but trusted to the ark for safety. If the moral law could justify, what need was there of Christ’s dying?

(2) The moral law is abolished to believers, in respect of its curse. They are freed from its curse and condemnatory power. ‘Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us.’ Gal 3: Is.

How was Christ made a curse for us?

Considered as the Son of God, he was not made a curse, but as our pledge and surety, he was made a curse for us. Heb 7: 22. This curse was not upon his Godhead, but upon his manhood. It was the wrath of God lying upon him; and thus he took away from believers the curse of the law, by being made a curse for them. But though the moral law be thus far abolished, it remains as a perpetual rule to believers. Though it be not their Saviour, it is their guide. Though it be not foedus, a covenant of life; yet it is norma, a rule of life. Every Christian is bound to conform to it; and to write, as exactly as he can, after this copy. ‘Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid.’ Rom 3: 31. Though a Christian is not under the condemning power of the law, yet he is under its commanding power. To love God, to reverence and obey him, is a law which always binds and will bind in heaven. This I urge against the Antinomians, who say the moral law is abrogated to believers; which, as it contradicts Scripture, so it is a key to open the door to all licentiousness. They who will not have the law to rule them, shall never have the gospel to save them.See also The Law and the Gospel, by John Colquhoun

Moral Law which God establish is not abolished.

 

[moondweller]

Now, can we procede to hear MD’s defense of his claim that they 10 Commandments of God (but not Jesus ) are not rules for Christian conduct? For example, which of the 10 Commandments are no longer God’s will for the conduct of every Christian?

You’re like Guanophore who tends to misquote me. I said NOTHING about “Christian conduct.” I said the 10 Commandments, being Law, are not the believer’s rule of relationship with God. A significant difference: The believer is not under Law but under grace.Rom 6:15 "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

 

[moondweller]

Moral Law which God establish is not abolished.

Can you show us where “The moral Law” is mentioned in Scripture? Can you show us where in Scripture the 10 Commandments are called “The moral Law?”

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

Hmm, everybody seems to be missing somethings here.

1. The Ten Commandments represent God’s Character. They are who God is.
2. The Ten Commandments were in existance before they were given to Moses. How else would Adam and Eve, Cain, Joseph and all the others before Moses known about sin? For the Law reveals sin.
3. Matt. 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments (Pick one), and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven, (Not necessarily there, very doubtful): but whosoever shall DO and TEACH them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
   4 Being under grace does not proclude obedience to the Law (Ten Commandments), but rather it gives us power through the Holy Spirit to be able to keep them out of Love for our Lord and Savior. Jesus sums up Grace when he tells the Harlot to “Go, Sin no more.” Without the Law there is no sin, read Romans, and if there is no sin than there is no need for Grace, and if we don’t need Grace, then why did Christ have to die?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Can you show us where “The moral Law” is mentioned in Scripture? Can you show us where in Scripture the 10 Commandments are called “The moral Law?”

I don’t know if you have any common sense at all. I’m beginning to think you don’t have any.

In the Ten Commandments, the moral laws restrict the following immoral acts: murder, adultery, thief, coveting the neighbor’s wife, lying. The faith teaching covers the worship of God, the keeping the sabbath, and not having other gods before God.

I am seriously wondering if you are pulling our leg, because your questions are rather ridicules and lack common sense.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Moondweller,

You still have not answer the question I asked. Since YOU do not believe that Christians ought to follow the Ten Commandments, do you think it is right for me to commit adultery?

 

[JRKH]

Hmm, everybody seems to be missing somethings here.

1. The Ten Commandments represent God’s Character. They are who God is.
2. The Ten Commandments were in existance before they were given to Moses. How else would Adam and Eve, Cain, Joseph and all the others before Moses known about sin? For the Law reveals sin.
3. Matt. 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments (Pick one), and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven, (Not necessarily there, very doubtful): but whosoever shall DO and TEACH them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
   4 Being under grace does not proclude obedience to the Law (Ten Commandments), but rather it gives us power through the Holy Spirit to be able to keep them out of Love for our Lord and Savior. Jesus sums up Grace when he tells the Harlot to “Go, Sin no more.” Without the Law there is no sin, read Romans, and if there is no sin than there is no need for Grace, and if we don’t need Grace, then why did Christ have to die?

Sabbath Keeper,
Welcome to the forums.
Excellant first post.
Well Said.

Peace
James

 

[Teflon93]

You’re like Guanophore who tends to misquote me. I said NOTHING about “Christian conduct.” I said the 10 Commandments, being Law, are not the believer’s rule of relationship with God. A significant difference: The believer is not under Law but under grace.Rom 6:15 "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

You shouldn’t misquote yourself:

For man the 10 Commandments are a ministry of death and condemnation. .

This implies rather strongly that we shouldn’t obey them then, right?

You’ve been asked this direct question many times, yet seem too afraid to answer:

Which of the Ten Commandments are Christians free to disobey?

Where in Scripture does it say we are now free to disobey these?

Simple questions. What’s your answer?

 

[moondweller]

You shouldn’t misquote yourself:

This implies rather strongly that we shouldn’t obey them then, right?

You’ve been asked this direct question many times, yet seem too afraid to answer:

Which of the Ten Commandments are Christians free to disobey?

Where in Scripture does it say we are now free to disobey these?

Simple questions. What’s your answer?

I didn’t call the “Letters engraved on stone” a ministry of condemnation and death, Paul did. I gave the Scriptures. Where in my posts did I talk about Christian conduct? Don’t tell me “by implication” and then accuse me of “misquoting” myself. Let’s keep it honest, my friend.

 

[moondweller]

I don’t know if you have any common sense at all. I’m beginning to think you don’t have any.

Well, nevertheless, can you show where the big 10 are called “The Moral Law?” I often read and hear Catholics use the terms, “The Moral Law” (which we’re still under) and “The Levitical Law” (which we’re not under). Can you show me where these two terms are actually used in Scripture and where they’re taught as being two separate Laws?

Would you tell me what you think Paul means by “…for you are not under law but under grace?”

 

[mikeledes]

Can you point a passage in the Bible where Jesus says “I am God?” Or is it necessary for Him to explictly say something in order for it to be true? What Jesus does
say is this:

John 15:10,12

10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
12"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

This is the Law of Christ. And what does this commandment mean?

Romans 13:8-9

8Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
9For this, “YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET,” and if there is any other commandment, it is SUMMED UP in this saying, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

2 John 6

6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.

The Bible explicitly states that the Ten Commandments are summed up in “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Jesus explicitly states that this is His commandment. Therefore, if this commandment is a summary of the 10 commandments, then when Jesus describes “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” as His commandment, then He is also saying the same about the 10 commandments.

God Bless,
Michael

Jesus’s command to love is a summary/ shorthand version of the Decalogue. He clearly describes it as His commandment.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Well, nevertheless, can you show where the big 10 are called “The Moral Law?” I often read and hear Catholics use the terms, “The Moral Law” (which we’re still under) and “The Levitical Law” (which we’re not under). Can you show me where these two terms are actually used in Scripture and where they’re taught as being two separate Laws?

Would you tell me what you think Paul means by “…for you are not under law but under grace?”

1 Corinthians 9:20-21

**20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. **

Paul makes that distinction quite clear.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[moondweller]

Hmm, everybody seems to be missing somethings here.

1. The Ten Commandments represent God’s Character. They are who God is.

Oh really? So God keeps a seventh day sabbath? Does he honor his father and mother so that His days may be long in heaven? Is His stay in heaven conditioned on keeping that commandment?

1. The Ten Commandments were in existance before they were given to Moses. How else would Adam and Eve, Cain, Joseph and all the others before Moses known about sin?

First of all Adam and Eve had ONE commandment given to them - not to eat the fruit of a specific tree. They ate. They knew they transgressed that law and sinned, plunging all his posterity into sin and death.

How do you reconcile Rom 5:12-14 with your statement that the 10 Commandments existed before Moses?"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (past tense, in Adam) for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.Looks to me like the Law didn’t exist until Moses. The Decalogue is an integral part of “the Law” delivered by Moses.

 

[Teflon93]

I didn’t call the “Letters engraved on stone” a ministry of condemnation and death, Paul did. I gave the Scriptures. Where in my posts did I talk about Christian conduct? Don’t tell me “by implication” and then accuse me of “misquoting” myself. Let’s keep it honest, my friend.

Excuse me, but you’re dishonestly evading the question:

Where in Scripture does Christ tell us we are no longer to obey the Commandments?

I have provided you the Scripture where he says to keep the Commandments if we are to enter eternal life.

You have ignored it, and continued to ignore it.

So let’s keep it honest and address the questions posed, friend.

 

[moondweller]

1 Corinthians 9:20-21

20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Paul makes that distinction quite clear.

God Bless,
Michael

Paul makes what distinction quite clear? Please explain yourself.

 

[VociMike]

This thread just causes me to thank merciful God for the Magisterium.

 

[moondweller]

Excuse me, but you’re dishonestly evading the question:

Where in Scripture does Christ tell us we are no longer to obey the Commandments?

I have provided you the Scripture where he says to keep the Commandments if we are to enter eternal life.

You have ignored it, and continued to ignore it.

So let’s keep it honest and address the questions posed, friend.

Excuse me, but I’m still waiting for you or someone to show me where Jesus called the big 10 “My Commandments.” I’ve gotten a lot of opinions but no facts.

And where, Mr. Teflon, did I talk about Christian conduct in my posts regarding the Decalogue?