Commandments should not be followed ...

[Pax]

The contention by the non-Catholics on this thread that we are saved “by faith alone” has become a mantra. It is a repeated contention without foundation.

Paul never says that we are saved by faith alone.

Paul uses the word “faith” more than 200 times, and he happens to use the word “alone” more than any other NT writer. Nevertheless, Paul never uses the term “faith alone.”
Paul simply does not use the terms together, and he certainly would have done so had his teaching been what you claim it is. Paul was a well educated and thoughful apostle. Paul would never have stated his teachings the way he did if he meant to say that we are saved by “faith alone.” Paul would have simply made the statement.

It seems rather odd that the proponents of the “faith alone” doctrine would attempt to make the NT’s most prolific author say something that he clearly does not say, and then insist that it be so. This becomes even more egregious when we have another inspired author, James, that did use the words “faith” and “alone” together. This inspired author said that a "man is saved by faith and works, and not by “faith alone.”

The entire argument of “sola fide” is simply a non-scriptural man made doctrine.

Paul says we are saved by faith. Not by works, lest any man boast. He makes himself perfectly clear on this w/o having to use the word ‘alone’.

Paul also later tell us that once saved by faith … we need to demonstrate fruits c/w our belief. Evidence of our ‘faithbased salvation’ is a must. James agrees with Paul … and emphasizes fact that if one claims to be Christian there needs be fruitful works to support their claims.

So … what is needed is a Protestant/Catholic merging of beliefs to arrive at the full truth. Protestants teach the accurate idea on initial salvation … Catholics better teach the correct need of Fruitful Works ‘ever thereafter’ in ones life.

I don’t know if you have read this entire thread or other threads on the topic of faith alone. In any event, the issue of Ephesians 2:8-10 has been explained by me on more than one ocassion and I have also given some careful analysis to James chapter 2. If you would like me to send you a full explanation of these please PM me for the information and include your email address. I’ll be glad to send you a couple of files filled with the appropriate goods.

I firmly disagree with your last few sentences. The Protestants on this thread do not accurately teach the idea of “initial” salvation. In fact, they completely disagree with this teaching.

 

[Pax]

Yes, but one is not saved BY bearing another’s burdens. One is saved by grace through faith alone."
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[/indent]

Please show me the passage of scripture that says that “we are saved by faith alone.” If you cannot do so, then please quit making this non-scriptural assertion.

 

[moondweller]

Do you realize that you are adding the word “alone” to scripture?

Faith is NEVER alone.

For salvation it is. Maybe not for you who believes he must work throughout his life in hopes he “will be saved.”

In fact, the Apostolic teaching is that faith is completed by works.

Abraham’s FAITH was completed (progressively matured) by works, but not his justification. Even James had to go back to Gen. 15:6 since that is the ONLY place it is stated that Abraham believed in the Lord and He reckoned it (his faith) to him as righteousness.

However, you keep posting this verse,and seem to miss the obvious word “basis” that it contains. The works that complete salvation are based on the same grace as the faith through which it flows. Neither faith or works are the “basis” of salvation, but grace. However, salvation does not happen without that faith and works. None of them are “alone” as you assert.

I don’t “assert” anything: “For by grace you have been saved through faith…NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS.” God saves an individual by the means of GRACE alone on the basis of FAITH alone.

A faith that is alone is a dead faith,

A simply “said faith” surely is dead. So is faith in works. But faith in Christ alone produces life eternal, something works can never do. Not even what you deem “sacred works” which you believe contribute to the cause of one’s salvation:Titus 3:5 "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,"Nope, looks like faith alone. The principle of law demands works. The principle of grace requires faith. They’re opposing principles.Phil 3:9 "…and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from law (the principle of), but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which {comes} from God on the basis of faith,

 

[Pax]

Like Paul I must talk to you in extremes because you resist the obvious - grace). But none of these “laws” can save a man. In fact, only the saved, the redeemed now “in Christ” and “under grace,” can operate within the former three, and that by the power of the indwelling Spirit.

I do not mean to be uncharitable, but your thinking and methods in no way resemble those of Paul. Your claims that we do not understand grace and the redemptive work of Christ is simply false. We have explained our position over and over on this, and yet you never once address our position as stated. Instead, you fabricate a ridiculous strawman argument that is never on point.

But the principle of law (which requires works) and the principle of grace (which requires faith alone), in respect to salvation, cannot ever co-exist:Rom 11:6 "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.“Grasp the contrast: John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.”

This is simply untrue. The contrast that Paul makes to Christianity and salvation by grace is not as you have stated it. Paul’s contrast is between the gospel religion of Christianity versus the works system of the OT law and the works systems of the gentiles before their false Gods.

Paul never separates Christian works from grace. Paul never separates Christian works from faith. Paul points out the uselessness of the works of the Judaic system of OT law and the uselessness of gentile works. That is the entire point of his argument concerning works. We have demonstrated over and over the relationship of grace, faith, and works. We have gone through Eph 2:8-9 to explain how works have nothing to do with our first coming to faith and being justified. We have shown, however, how verse 10 demonstrates that the works that we must do in our new state of justification are part of our being a new creation in Christ Jesus for good works that the Father created in advance of our justification so that we should walk in them. We have shown that verse 10 is inseparable from verses 8 and 9 because it comes as part of justification.

We have stated and demonstrated that all is by grace. We have stated and demonstrated that faith is both a gift and a work. We have stated and demonstrated that all Christian works are by way of grace. We have stated and demonstrated that our works are nothing less than the Father’s works of grace within our hearts, minds, souls, and bodies. The Father’s works within us cannot be separated from justification. This grace cannot be separated from the grace that justifies. This grace cannot be separated from the grace that enables us to “believe.” All is by grace. All that God does by grace justifies and sanctifies, and it is all the fruit of the redemptive work of Jesus on the cross. When we speak of works, we are speaking of grace generated works within the gospel system of Christianity. We are not talking about OT works of law or gentile works that are not part of the Christian life in the Spirit. Those works have nothing to do with salvation because they are not done in and by grace and they are to be understood in terms of an employer and a wage. Christian works are based in a family relationship of grace where we are adopted sons and daughters that rejoice in “Abba” Father.

Now, if you want to attack these statements then please feel free to do so, but please address them head on, and do not create a strawman or simply repeat you erroneous “faith alone” quotidian mantra which is not found in scripture. Paul uses the word “faith” over 200 times in the NT yet he never once associates it with the word “alone.” This is totally at odds with your doctrine of “sola fide” especially since Paul uses the word “alone” more times than anyone else in the NT. He just never uses it in conjunction with the word “faith.” This is deliberate on his part, and it is clearly reinforced by the fact that the apostle James does put the two words together and clearly states that “a man is **not **saved by faith alone.”

Those are the facts and statements from scripture, and your doctrine does not conform to them.

 

[Pax]

For salvation it is. Maybe not for you who believes he must work throughout his life in hopes he "will be saved."Abraham’s FAITH was completed (progressively matured) by works, but not his justification. Even James had to go back to Gen. 15:6 since that is the ONLY place it is stated that Abraham believed in the Lord and He reckoned it (his faith) to him as righteousness.I don’t “assert” anything: “For by grace you have been saved through faith…NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS.” God saves an individual by the means of GRACE alone on the basis of FAITH alone.A simply “said faith” surely is dead. So is faith in works. But faith in Christ alone produces life eternal, something works can never do. Not even what you deem “sacred works” which you believe contribute to the cause of one’s salvation:Titus 3:5 "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,"Nope, looks like faith alone. The principle of law demands works. The principle of grace requires faith. They’re opposing principles.Phil 3:9 "…and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from law (the principle of), but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which {comes} from God on the basis of faith,

More strawman arguments. You need to address our teaching and do so without mistating it.

 

[Pax]

Please show me the passage of scripture that says that “we are saved by faith alone.” If you cannot do so, then please quit making this non-scriptural assertion.

Bump!

 

[moondweller]

Please show me the passage of scripture that says that “we are saved by faith alone.” If you cannot do so, then please quit making this non-scriptural assertion.

I can show you numerous verses that say we are saved BY FAITH. Nothing added. I can show you numerous verses where faith is contrasted with works, where grace is contrasted with law and faith alone is so implicit, so inherent in those Scriptures that one would have to willfully ignore them.

Can you show me where the word “initial” is inserted before the words justification and salvation, implying that they’re conditional upon subsequent works? If you cannot do so will you quit making the non-scriptural assertion?

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

I can show you numerous verses that say we are saved BY FAITH. Nothing added.

You need improve your reading comprehension. Obviously faith is a HUGE part of everything, but not more important than Love.

I can show you where it says we are saved by HOPE. Nothing added. Do you even need faith by your logic?

 

[des_scahill]

I agree completely with Jimmy.

We are now set a much higher standard ie. perfection

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The 10 commandments are implicitly included - but they are no longer the ‘standard’ you have to reach. The standard is now Christ.
Rather than thinking “Gee, how good I am, I don’t break any of the 10 commandments any more”, we should be looking instead at how much we still fall short of the example set by Jesus.

Colossians 3: 1 - 12 provide some more insight

 

[pneuma07]

Yes, but one is not saved BY bearing another’s burdens. One is saved by grace through faith alone.

As for reaping the harvest for good doing, to a degree that’s a law of cause and effect here on earth, but in this cosmos, at times people are persecuted even for doing good, but ultimately “the harvest” will be reaped when the believer stands before the judgment seat of Christ and is rewarded. This judgment does not at all determine the believer’s salvation; that was determined, once for all, upon faith alone, in Christ alone. There his works done in this body will be revealed, figuratively by fire, as to their value and rewarded accordingly (1 Cor. 3:10-15).

The true believer is never “without” law. In fact he is now “in-lawed” to Christ. For the believer there’s the law of Christ, the law of liberty and the law of love. And in this world he must still operate under such laws as civil, judicial, federal, the law of cause and effect, even the law of gravity, for that matter. Like Paul I must talk to you in extremes because you resist the obvious - grace). But none of these “laws” can save a man. In fact, only the saved, the redeemed now “in Christ” and “under grace,” can operate within the former three, and that by the power of the indwelling Spirit.

But the principle of law (which requires works) and the principle of grace (which requires faith alone), in respect to salvation, cannot ever co-exist:Rom 11:6 "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.“Grasp the contrast: John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.”

Dear moondweller,

           you repeat  your " faith alone"  twice here.    But it does not become more persuasive, or more scriptural, by ...repetition alone.

You see, you state grace requires an answer, a co-operation :faith. You add “alone” to mean works have nothing to do here. The real issue in respect to salvation appears the nature of our answer to grace.

Php 2:12-13 Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Now: why do you see faith alone as the necessary fruit of grace ?
Don’t you have to work out your salvation, acting thanks to the grace, with “God who works in you” ? When you obey Jesus’ commandment ( the law of love), grace is there, God is working in you.

James 1:21-22 (NIV) Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says

As for your quotation from Romans 11, what is St. Paul speaking about ? Election. ( see 11:5). Sure, election is an act of pure grace. It is God’s initiative. We do not earn God’s initiative. So, Israel was elected by grace, by God’s initiative, not for their works, or their faith. Right or wrong, both their faith and their works came after God’s initiative.

The catechism says:

"1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

1998 This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God’s gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.47"

We can answer God’s gratuitous initiative through faith and through works. ( if you prefer we can also define faith as implying good works). And, as seen above, we have to do what God’s word says. It is a necessary part of the “right answer”.

 

[geezerbob]

I can show you numerous verses that say we are saved BY FAITH. Nothing added. I can show you numerous verses where faith is contrasted with works, where grace is contrasted with law and faith alone is so implicit, so inherent in those Scriptures that one would have to willfully ignore them.

It seems that you are willfully ignoring what our Savior said in Mt. 25:31-46. Explain that away.

 

[Odell]

Moondweller

Originally Posted by moondweller

I didn’t ask you what your rule of life is, I simply stated that if you’re going to apply the big 10 as your rule of life before God, then you MUST live by them - perfectly.

My rule of life is Christ Law and that is to Love. Jesus says if you Love me you will keep the commandments

Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love” (Jn 4:7-8). In 1 John 3:14, he teaches that “Whoever does not love abides in death.”

John further speaks against loving the world, warning that if one is to do this “the love of the Father is not in him” (2:15)

If you are going to apply your rule of life without Love than your no different than the demans who believe and tremble agree ** ? **

That was a question dont avoid it

Originally Posted by moondweller

Consider what Paul wrote to the Galatians who desired Law rather than grace, works rather than faith:
Gal 3:12 "However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.”
Paul took the gospel of Jesus Christ to them to bring about “obedience OF FAITH.” Would that then include the Law with its ministry of condemnation and death through "letters engraved on stones? Impossible, since he testifies that “the Law is NOT OF FAITH.”

You want to know what Paul had to say about Love?

Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:2, where he writes, “if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not** love**, I am nothing.” This, beyond all doubt, proves that man cannot be saved by faith without love.

Christ came to fullfil the Law not to abolish it agreed** ?**

some more on Paul

Paul (Rom 2:7-8) says, “Eternal life to those who seek glory, honor and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.”

Ive been called under a new Law the Law of Christ that is of Love which I could not do if it was not for His blood that gives me the grace to abide in Him and to actually KNOW him not KNOW of Him to actually have a relationship with Him not to just know of Him

 

[Teflon93]

This is simply untrue. The contrast that Paul makes to Christianity and salvation by grace is not as you have stated it. Paul’s contrast is between the gospel religion of Christianity versus the works system of the OT law and the works systems of the gentiles before their false Gods…

This is an excellent point and one utterly lost on those ignorant of religion in the ancient Mediterranean.

We must remember that a major target of St Paul was the paganism of Greek and Roman which dominated the world. This is why St Paul when to the Areopagus. This is why he went to Rome.

When St Paul says one is “bound to law”, he is referring to the yoke that was upon any pagan who sought to alleviate the anger of the gods. This was a line of reasoning they could readily understand in a society where ills abounded and were thought to be inflicted upon mankind by angry gods, gods whose anger could only be alleviated by perfectly performing the appropriate ritual. Any slight imperfection of ritual would only make them even angrier, increasing one’s woes.

The trouble was that becoming Christian in the 1st century tended to increase one’s woes, not diminish them, leading some to consider that they’d made a mistake in converting and needed to return to sacrificing to the gods lest they anger them further. They were returning to the yoke that invariably lands on the pagan—for in their view, there are many, many gods in need of placating; one is always in the process of doing so and worried about failing to do so. That is a heavy burden to bear indeed.

Sometimes people read St Paul as though the great apostle to the Gentiles was unaware of all this and spoke exclusively to the Jews.

 

[Teflon93]

I agree completely with Jimmy.

We are now set a much higher standard ie. perfection

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The 10 commandments are implicitly included - but they are no longer the ‘standard’ you have to reach. The standard is now Christ.
Rather than thinking “Gee, how good I am, I don’t break any of the 10 commandments any more”, we should be looking instead at how much we still fall short of the example set by Jesus.

Colossians 3: 1 - 12 provide some more insight

If the standard is Christ, perfect God and perfect Man, then no one can reach that standard by definition. Are we then not saved?

If we are yet saved, the standard is not perfection, but what Matthew 25 says it is; i.e. that we have taken the grace granted us by God and done something useful with it for the good of all.

 

[Pax]

This is an excellent point and one utterly lost on those ignorant of religion in the ancient Mediterranean.

We must remember that a major target of St Paul was the paganism of Greek and Roman which dominated the world. This is why St Paul when to the Areopagus. This is why he went to Rome.

When St Paul says one is “bound to law”, he is referring to the yoke that was upon any pagan who sought to alleviate the anger of the gods. This was a line of reasoning they could readily understand in a society where ills abounded and were thought to be inflicted upon mankind by angry gods, gods whose anger could only be alleviated by perfectly performing the appropriate ritual. Any slight imperfection of ritual would only make them even angrier, increasing one’s woes.

The trouble was that becoming Christian in the 1st century tended to increase one’s woes, not diminish them, leading some to consider that they’d made a mistake in converting and needed to return to sacrificing to the gods lest they anger them further. They were returning to the yoke that invariably lands on the pagan—for in their view, there are many, many gods in need of placating; one is always in the process of doing so and worried about failing to do so. That is a heavy burden to bear indeed.

Sometimes people read St Paul as though the great apostle to the Gentiles was unaware of all this and spoke exclusively to the Jews.

Well stated…this elaboration is an important aid in understanding Paul’s teaching. Thanks.

 

[Pax]

I can show you numerous verses that say we are saved BY FAITH. Nothing added. I can show you numerous verses where faith is contrasted with works, where grace is contrasted with law and faith alone is so implicit, so inherent in those Scriptures that one would have to willfully ignore them.

Can you show me where the word “initial” is inserted before the words justification and salvation, implying that they’re conditional upon subsequent works? If you cannot do so will you quit making the non-scriptural assertion?

Actually, the only thing that can be shown in scripture is the Catholic position which agrees with your view in how we “first come” to belief and justification. There are no verses whatsoever that show that our salvation is a done deal separate thereafter from our Christian walk. That is why Paul and all of the other inspired authors speak in provisional terms of our justification and salvation. Likewise, scripture clearly indicates that Abraham was justified on three separate ocassions.

You have a problem with the word “initial”, but when I responded to this earlier you either missed my response, ignored it, or simply couldn’t refute it. In any event, it is quite clear that a person is born in unbelief. At some point in time the Christian is justified. When we first come to belief we are “initially” justified, unless you somehow believe that we were previously justified. The examples of Abraham being justified on three ocassions clearly indicates that the first ocassion would be when he was “initially” justified. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the expression and it is perfectly congruent with scripture. Your attempts to say otherwise simply aren’t on task.

 

[moondweller]

Moondweller



My rule of life is Christ Law and that is to Love. Jesus says if you Love me you will keep the commandments

Is your salvation conditioned upon this law? If so, then to you it is a law of works.

All of this started because I asked for a list of “mortal sins.” A sin, it is taught, that has the power to cause a Catholic to lose his justification altogether. I was told “the 10 Commandments.”

Can you lose the infused righteousness you believe you received at baptism by violating one or any of the 10? If so, you may claim the law of Christ as your rule of life but ultimately you’re under the Law of Moses for damnation, which then, according to your belief system, trumps even the law of Christ.

Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, but Moses, it seems, can destroy the work of Christ.

 

[Teflon93]

Is your salvation conditioned upon this law? If so, then to you it is a law of works.

All of this started because I asked for a list of “mortal sins.” A sin, it is taught, that has the power to cause a Catholic to lose his justification altogether. I was told “the 10 Commandments.”

Can you lose the infused righteousness you believe you received at baptism by violating one or any of the 10? If so, you may claim the law of Christ as your rule of life but ultimately you’re under the Law of Moses for damnation, which then, according to your belief system, trumps even the law of Christ.

Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, but Moses, it seems, can destroy the work of Christ.

Which Commandment(s) may the Christian break and still see the Kingdom of Heaven? Scripture, please.

 

[guanophore]

For salvation it is.

No, MD, Scripture does not anywhere state that we are saved by “faith alone”. On the contrary, there is only one place in scripture where the words “faith alone” are found. I know you know this well, but must mentally insert the word “alone” in order to support your soteriology, which is not consistent with Apostolc Teaching.

Maybe not for you who believes he must work throughout his life in hopes he "will be saved.

Perhaps we can start a new thread, and you can explain what Paul means when he says that faith is completed by works, and that we must “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” ?

We could also use that thread as an opportunity for you to explain why you do not embrace the attitude that Paul considers “mature” about salvation?

Phil 3:12-16

" Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature be thus minded; and if in anything you are otherwise minded, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained." Phil 3:12-16

"Abraham’s FAITH was completed (progressively matured) by works, but not his justification. Even James had to go back to Gen. 15:6 since that is the ONLY place it is stated that Abraham believed in the Lord and He reckoned it (his faith) to him as righteousness.

I guess the question, more appropriate for another thread perhaps, is, why did Abraham’s faith need to progressively mature? If He had sufficient faith to be justified, what else could be needed? You have stated many times that the believer is never more justified than he is at the moment of coming to faith in Christ.

I don't "assert" anything:

On the contrary, the threads are chock full of your non-Apostolic assertions, fruit of the Reformation, grown from the separation of the Sacred Traditions passed down to us through the Succession.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith…NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS.” God saves an individual by the means of GRACE alone on the basis of FAITH alone.A simply “said faith” surely is dead. So is faith in works.

It is very Catholic of you to say that.

But faith in Christ alone produces life eternal, something works can never do. Not even what you deem “sacred works” which you believe contribute to the cause of one’s salvation:Titus 3:5 “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,”

No, md, you are creating strawmen again. If you ever study the documents of the council of Trent, and any documents since that clarify the Church’s position on salvation, you will see that you are misrepresenting the Catholic faith. This is why you have been (correctly) indicted here on CAF as bearing false witness.

The Catholic Church does not teach that we can be saved on the basis of works. However, it is interesting to note here that you use one of the passages to bolster your strawman that supports the Apostolic Teaching that baptism is regenerative.

Nope, looks like faith alone. The principle of law demands works. The principle of grace requires faith. They’re opposing principles.Phil 3:9 "…and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from law (the principle of), but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which {comes} from God on the basis of faith,

Faith is never alone in the Kingdom of God, md. The fact that it is not the basis of God’s salvation (which is grace) does not mean it is separate from it. God does not save everyone, but only those who bring forth their faith to meet His grace. Such persons (with saving faith) will produce fruits that befit repentance. Faith, though not the basis, is not “alone”.

 

[guanophore]

Paul says we are saved by faith. Not by works, lest any man boast. He makes himself perfectly clear on this w/o having to use the word ‘alone’.

You may wish to go back an read this again, BRB. We are not saved by faith, or by works. We are saved by grace. This is because faith is also a work.

Paul also later tell us that once saved by faith … we need to demonstrate fruits c/w our belief. Evidence of our ‘faithbased salvation’ is a must. James agrees with Paul … and emphasizes fact that if one claims to be Christian there needs be fruitful works to support their claims.

So … what is needed is a Protestant/Catholic merging of beliefs to arrive at the full truth. Protestants teach the accurate idea on initial salvation … Catholics better teach the correct need of Fruitful Works ‘ever thereafter’ in ones life.

No, Protestants, by and large, do not share the Apostolic Teaching that Catholics have with the Orthodox. Those who have received the Aposotlic Teaching understand initial justification as being regenerative, which is a concept not found in most Reformed traditions, they being based on the man-made doctrine of total depravity.

But, perhaps we should start a new thread on this, since it is off topic here?