Commandments should not be followed ...

[Teflon93]

II. THE OLD LAW

1961 God, our Creator and Redeemer, chose Israel for himself to be his people and revealed his Law to them, thus preparing for the coming of Christ. The Law of Moses expresses many truths naturally accessible to reason. These are stated and authenticated within the covenant of salvation.

1962 **The Old Law is the first stage of revealed Law. Its moral prescriptions are summed up in the Ten Commandments. The precepts of the Decalogue lay the foundations for the vocation of man fashioned in the image of God; they prohibit what is contrary to the love of God and neighbor and prescribe what is essential to it. **The Decalogue is a light offered to the conscience of every man to make God’s call and ways known to him and to protect him against evil:

God wrote on the tables of the Law what men did not read in their hearts.13

1963 According to Christian tradition, the Law is holy, spiritual, and good,14 yet still imperfect. Like a tutor15 it shows what must be done, but does not of itself give the strength, the grace of the Spirit, to fulfill it. Because of sin, which it cannot remove, it remains a law of bondage. According to St. Paul, its special function is to denounce and disclose sin, which constitutes a “law of concupiscence” in the human heart.16 However, the Law remains the first stage on the way to the kingdom. It prepares and disposes the chosen people and each Christian for conversion and faith in the Savior God. It provides a teaching which endures for ever, like the Word of God.

1964 The Old Law is a preparation for the Gospel. "The Law is a pedagogy and a prophecy of things to come."17 It prophesies and presages the work of liberation from sin which will be fulfilled in Christ: it provides the New Testament with images, “types,” and symbols for expressing the life according to the Spirit. Finally, the Law is completed by the teaching of the sapiential books and the prophets which set its course toward the New Covenant and the Kingdom of heaven.

There were . . . under the regimen of the Old Covenant, people who possessed the charity and grace of the Holy Spirit and longed above all for the spiritual and eternal promises by which they were associated with the New Law. Conversely, there exist carnal men under the New Covenant still distanced from the perfection of the New Law: the fear of punishment and certain temporal promises have been necessary, even under the New Covenant, to incite them to virtuous works. In any case, even though the Old Law prescribed charity, it did not give the Holy Spirit, through whom "God’s charity has been poured into our hearts."18

III. THE NEW LAW OR THE LAW OF THE GOSPEL

1965 The New Law or the Law of the Gospel is the perfection here on earth of the divine law, natural and revealed. It is the work of Christ and is expressed particularly in the Sermon on the Mount. It is also the work of the Holy Spirit and through him it becomes the interior law of charity: "I will establish a New Covenant with the house of Israel. . . . I will put my laws into their hands, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."19

1966 The New Law is the grace of the Holy Spirit given to the faithful through faith in Christ. It works through charity; it uses the Sermon on the Mount to teach us what must be done and makes use of the sacraments to give us the grace to do it:

If anyone should meditate with devotion and perspicacity on the sermon our Lord gave on the mount, as we read in the Gospel of Saint Matthew, he will doubtless find there . . . the perfect way of the Christian life. . . . This sermon contains . . . all the precepts needed to shape one’s life.20

1967 The Law of the Gospel “fulfills,” refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection.21 In the Beatitudes, the New Law fulfills the divine promises by elevating and orienting them toward the “kingdom of heaven.” It is addressed to those open to accepting this new hope with faith - the poor, the humble, the afflicted, the pure of heart, those persecuted on account of Christ and so marks out the surprising ways of the Kingdom.

1968 The Law of the Gospel fulfills the commandments of the Law. The Lord’s Sermon on the Mount, far from abolishing or devaluing the moral prescriptions of the Old Law, releases their hidden potential and has new demands arise from them: it reveals their entire divine and human truth. It does not add new external precepts, but proceeds to reform the heart, the root of human acts, where man chooses between the pure and the impure,22 where faith, hope, and charity are formed and with them the other virtues. The Gospel thus brings the Law to its fullness through imitation of the perfection of the heavenly Father, through forgiveness of enemies and prayer for persecutors, in emulation of the divine generosity.23

1969 **The New Law practices the acts of religion: almsgiving, prayer and fasting, directing them to the “Father who sees in secret,” in contrast with the desire to "be seen by men."24 Its prayer is the Our Father.25 **

1970 **The Law of the Gospel requires us to make the decisive choice between “the two ways” and to put into practice the words of the Lord.26 It is summed up in the Golden Rule, “Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; this is the law and the prophets.”**27

The entire Law of the Gospel is contained in the “new commandment” of Jesus, to love one another as he has loved us.28

1971 To the Lord’s Sermon on the Mount it is fitting to add the moral catechesis of the apostolic teachings, such as Romans 12-15, 1 Corinthians 12-13, Colossians 3-4, Ephesians 4-5, etc. This doctrine hands on the Lord’s teaching with the authority of the apostles, particularly in the presentation of the virtues that flow from faith in Christ and are animated by charity, the principal gift of the Holy Spirit. "Let charity be genuine. . . . Love one another with brotherly affection. . . . Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. Contribute to the needs of the saints, practice hospitality."29 This catechesis also teaches us to deal with cases of conscience in the light of our relationship to Christ and to the Church.30

1972 The New Law is called a law of love because it makes us act out of the love infused by the Holy Spirit, rather than from fear; a law of grace, because it confers the strength of grace to act, by means of faith and the sacraments; a law of freedom, because it sets us free from the ritual and juridical observances of the Old Law, inclines us to act spontaneously by the prompting of charity and, finally, lets us pass from the condition of a servant who “does not know what his master is doing” to that of a friend of Christ - “For all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you” - or even to the status of son and heir.31

1973 Besides its precepts, the New Law also includes the evangelical counsels. The traditional distinction between God’s commandments and the evangelical counsels is drawn in relation to charity, the perfection of Christian life. The precepts are intended to remove whatever is incompatible with charity. The aim of the counsels is to remove whatever might hinder the development of charity, even if it is not contrary to it.32

1974 The evangelical counsels manifest the living fullness of charity, which is never satisfied with not giving more. They attest its vitality and call forth our spiritual readiness. The perfection of the New Law consists essentially in the precepts of love of God and neighbor. The counsels point out the more direct ways, the readier means, and are to be practiced in keeping with the vocation of each:

[God] does not want each person to keep all the counsels, but only those appropriate to the diversity of persons, times, opportunities, and strengths, as charity requires; for it is charity, as queen of all virtues, all commandments, all counsels, and, in short, of all laws and all Christian actions that gives to all of them their rank, order, time, and value.33

 

[Teflon93]

THAT is what the Church teaches.

The Catholic response to the OP, once again, is “All of the Commandments should be followed. Further, the Christian ought to conduct himself in faith, hope, and charity, and strive to be perfect, as Christ was perfect.”

 

[ellammcg]

I am curious about something (and I hope this isn’t off topic). If OSAS is, in fact, as obvious as some would have us believe (reading the Word in it’s entirety), then there should be, since the very beginning of the church age, reams of paper written about that doctrine. Is that so? I am not being contentious, I actually don’t know. I have only been able to find information about the belief in eternal security attributed to Calvin (who I do know was very attached to the notion of extreme predestination).

 

[Teflon93]

I am curious about something (and I hope this isn’t off topic). If OSAS is, in fact, as obvious as some would have us believe (reading the Word in it’s entirety), then there should be, since the very beginning of the church age, reams of paper written about that doctrine. Is that so? I am not being contentious, I actually don’t know. I have only been able to find information about the belief in eternal security attributed to Calvin (who I do know was very attached to the notion of extreme predestination).

Indeed, there ought to be such evidence from the early Church.

Since there is not, Fundamentalists sought to manufacture a conspiracy theory to explain the lack of evidence—“The Trail of Blood”. You can Google it.

 

[moondweller]

THAT is what the Church teaches.

The Catholic response to the OP, once again, is “All of the Commandments should be followed. Further, the Christian ought to conduct himself in faith, hope, and charity, and strive to be perfect, as Christ was perfect.”

It states nothing there about “mortal sin” connected to either of its descriptions of what it calls the “old law” and the “new law” (although Scripture speaks only of the first Covenant vs. the new Covenant).

So could a Catholic here find out from some REAL authority if violation (transgression) of either your “old” and “new” LAWS is considered "mortal sin?’

And when the OP says ALL the commandments should be followed, does he mean FOR salvation? If LAW (as is being taught) still remains the Christian’s rule of life before God (“under law”), then truly salvation is according to works. And not only is divine grace through Christ’s sacrificial work of no eternal benefit, but the Christian now has not only one judge over him, but two: Moses and Christ.

"…for you are not under law (the principle of), but under grace (the principle of), says Paul.

 

[Teflon93]

It states nothing there about “mortal sin” connected to either of its descriptions of what it calls the “old law” and the “new law” (although Scripture speaks only of the first Covenant vs. the new Covenant).

So could a Catholic here find out from some REAL authority if violation (transgression) of either your “old” and “new” LAWS is considered "mortal sin?’

And when the OP says ALL the commandments should be followed, does he mean FOR salvation? If LAW (as is being taught) still remains the Christian’s rule of life before God (“under law”), then truly salvation is according to works. And not only is divine grace through Christ’s sacrificial work of no eternal benefit, but the Christian now has not only one judge over him, but two: Moses and Christ.

"…for you are not under law (the principle of), but under grace (the principle of), says Paul.

Wow, you simply are ignorant of Catholic teaching—you obviously haven’t thought about anything posted in this long thread.

As always, the Catechism has more to say than you claim it does, and unlike your manmade tradition, is undergirded by the real authority of Christ in his very visible Church:

. MERCY AND SIN

1846 The Gospel is the revelation in Jesus Christ of God’s mercy to sinners.113 The angel announced to Joseph: "You shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."114 The same is true of the Eucharist, the sacrament of redemption: "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."115

1847 "God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us."116 To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."117

1848 As St. Paul affirms, "Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."118 But to do its work grace must uncover sin so as to convert our hearts and bestow on us "righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."119 Like a physician who probes the wound before treating it, God, by his Word and by his Spirit, casts a living light on sin:

Conversion requires convincing of sin; it includes the interior judgment of conscience, and this, being a proof of the action of the Spirit of truth in man’s inmost being, becomes at the same time the start of a new grant of grace and love: “Receive the Holy Spirit.” Thus in this “convincing concerning sin” we discover a double gift: the gift of the truth of conscience and the gift of the certainty of redemption. The Spirit of truth is the Consoler.120

II. THE DEFINITION OF SIN

1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121

1850 Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."122 Sin sets itself against God’s love for us and turns our hearts away from it. Like the first sin, it is disobedience, a revolt against God through the will to become "like gods,"123 knowing and determining good and evil. Sin is thus "love of oneself even to contempt of God."124 In this proud self- exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.125

1851 It is precisely in the Passion, when the mercy of Christ is about to vanquish it, that sin most clearly manifests its violence and its many forms: unbelief, murderous hatred, shunning and mockery by the leaders and the people, Pilate’s cowardice and the cruelty of the soldiers, Judas’ betrayal - so bitter to Jesus, Peter’s denial and the disciples’ flight. However, at the very hour of darkness, the hour of the prince of this world,126 the sacrifice of Christ secretly becomes the source from which the forgiveness of our sins will pour forth inexhaustibly.

III. THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF SINS

1852 **There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.”**127

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

 

[Teflon93]

IV. THE GRAVITY OF SIN: MORTAL AND VENIAL SIN

1854 **Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience. **

1855 **Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him. **

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. **Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin. **

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

1862 **One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent. **

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134

While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call “light”: if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135

1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

V. THE PROLIFERATION OF SIN

1865 Sin creates a proclivity to sin; it engenders vice by repetition of the same acts. This results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and corrupt the concrete judgment of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself and reinforce itself, but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root.

1866 Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. **They are called “capital” because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia. **

1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are “sins that cry to heaven”: the blood of Abel,139 the sin of the Sodomites,140 the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,141 the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.143

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. “Structures of sin” are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144

You stand corrected, Moondweller, again.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

In that passage Paul is not saying to work FOR your salvation but to work outward unto maturity one’s salvation within. Your interpretation does not fit Pauline soteriology which is "by grace through faith…a gift of God, not as a result of works. Paul doesn’t have a different soteriology then any other apostle. There is no Pauline soteriology, just Christ’s. Paul was faithful to Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church whether you like that fact or not."What makes you think Paul was referring to being disqualified from salvation? When Paul directly teaches on salvation he never refers to it as a race on our part. really?!But instead, “by grace, through faith, gifted, not as a result of works” (Eph. 2:8-9)I’ll stick to it, but not the “race” part. I’ll stick to the teaching of Paul and the other apostles. Including the race part. Salvation is gifted upon faith in Christ, and the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable (Rom. 11:29).

Paul being a romanian citizen describes salvation in the context of athletics on several occasions to help the gentiles understand salvation as they understand athletics.

1 Cor. 9, 24-27 "do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run as to win!

Paul admits that he can be disqualified in the last sentence of ver. 27. What does that mean to “faith alone” and OSAS crowd?

Also 2 Timothy 4:7. “I have kept the faith” Why state this at the end of your earthly life if you believed yourself to be already saved.

Your soteriology will undoughtedly lead you to a different understanding of Paul’s writings and warnings, but he remains very clearly Catholic. Your tap dance must continue to put these verses in a context that allow you remain “biblical” in your minds eye.

 

[mikeledes]

You miss the whole point of the song, Pax. It’s grace alone that saved the hour we first believed. And it’s grace that brings us Home. There’s no “falling from (that) grace.”

Galatians 5:4

4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

In that passage Paul is not saying to work FOR your salvation but to work outward unto maturity one’s salvation within. Your interpretation does not fit Pauline soteriology which is "by grace through faith…a gift of God, not as a result of works."What makes you think Paul was referring to being disqualified from salvation? When Paul directly teaches on salvation he never refers to it as a race on our part. But instead, “by grace, through faith, gifted, not as a result of works” (Eph. 2:8-9)I’ll stick to it, but not the “race” part. Salvation is gifted upon faith in Christ, and the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable (Rom. 11:29).

So what is Paul concerned with if not your salvation? Again with your views, you do not need to carry your cross as Christ commanded. Hence, you are not worthy in a fundamental sense without your cross.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

so once you start carrying your cross, its IMPOSSIBLE to drop it (by sin for example)? THAT IS WHAT YOU PREACH!

And get it straight friend, the works are works of the Mosaic law in that Eph. passage you quoted. Not divine charity, something greater than faith.

1 Cor 13:13 And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

peace and grace everyone. I am going on a three-day retreat. Pray for me!

 

[BRB]

You do come up with funny things, guanophore.

Like Peter and John don’t explain things in an organized way ??

Come on guanophore … you know better !!!

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Like Peter and John don’t explain things in an organized way ??

Come on guanophore … you know better !!!

He does know better. He was pointing out that you don’t.

 

[BRB]

James 2:21-24
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. **You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. **

.

Dead on !!

Recall the story of rich young man who came to Christ desiring eternal life.

Young man was impressed with ‘Goodness’ of Christ. And, it appears he was rather good at keeping 10 commandments himself.

But, while Christ admired his ‘faith’ and love of law, … he further tells that New Covenant ‘works’ are also in order.

Faith alone … w/o accepting Christian discipleship [works] does not impress Christ.

Abraham built altar upon which to sacrifice Isaac … and raise the knife. That is evidenced-based faith that shows Abraham’s discipleship to Christ.

 

[BRB]

He does know better. He was pointing out that you don’t.

We both know better …

 

[moondweller]

Galatians 5:4

4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

God Bless,
Michael

Thank you! Those who want to be “justified by law” were never saved, never “justified as a gift through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24). Fallen from grace means they rejected the gospel of divine grace through Christ Jesus that was delivered to them by Paul and instead embraced LAW, thereby severing themselves from Christ.

 

[sandusky]

Jesus N Cherie:

I’ve been following this thread. Your post summs it all up…even to the point of stating that those of old (1600s) in the Church were fighting the exact same heresies. They even had a name for them. In todays world, where there are thousands of small groups of them, they don’t all have a name.

All of the questions and arguments were answered in your post. Anyone who would argue with that is “acting” like a scoffer, according to what St. Peter calls those who would argue against the Truth.

IMO the main foe of the Puritans was the RC.

The “hinge” of the reformation, that of salvation in the form of the “solas,” specifically “faith alone,” continued to be waged against the RC by those following reformation teaching.

Clearly the reformers, and notably Luther, understood the RC to be teaching salvation by “works,” otherwise, why did they make the charge and argue so strongly against salvation by works?

In reading the 6th Session of Trent on justification, I come away with a clear understanding that Trent taught a salvation gained on the basis of "meriting merit," or "meriting grace," as reflected in your catechism.

From the CCC:2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.(Notice the distinction between initial and subsequent grace.)

IMO, to merit grace is an oxymoron (cf Rom 11:6).

 

[BRB]

From the CCC:2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.(Notice the distinction between initial and subsequent grace.)

IMO, to merit grace is an oxymoron (cf Rom 11:6).

I had never noticed this before in Cat. It does seem odd as it is written. We can order our intentions, we can structure our lives, but can we ‘merit for ourselves’ what this says ?

Some wise Catholic please explain this.

 

[BRB]

1 Cor. 9, 24-27 "do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run as to win!

Paul admits that he can be disqualified in the last sentence of ver. 27. What does that mean to “faith alone” and OSAS crowd?

Also 2 Timothy 4:7. “I have kept the faith” Why state this at the end of your earthly life if you believed yourself to be already saved.
.

Lets use example from history. Perhaps Judas is our best example.

Judas was chosen by Christ, became a disciple, did mighty works in name of Christ [we must assume].

Yet, he fell back. He quit the race prematurely. And, Christ says it would of been better had he not been born.

Clearly OSAS has its problems … as seen from life of Judas.

Thats why Christ/Paul teach us to persevere to the end.

 

[ellammcg]

Thank you! Those who want to be “justified by law” were never saved, never “justified as a gift through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24).

Are you saying that someone who was saved and baptized in a local, scriptural, new testament church IAW the prevailing doctrine (faith/trust alone in the work of Christ Jesus) and belief in that doctrine at that time, who then becomes Catholic and subscribes to their beliefs, is no longer saved or never was saved?