Commandments should not be followed ...

[guanophore]

I’m wondering why the New Testament is so long. If OSAS is correct, couldn’t the entire thing be written up on a post-it and stuck on the back of the Old Testament? Such as:
"Read Old Testament. Have you, do you or will you violate any of the commandments? Believe Christ Jesus died for all of your sins. Go to heaven when you die. "
Wouldn’t that be easier and less likely to be misinterpreted by anyone? Just wondering…

It would sure save a lot of trees, and bandwidth!

 

[guanophore]

OK, as someone who has done exactly that - was saved and baptized in an independent, fundamental, KJV-only, premillennial Baptist Church and is now Catholic - I have lost the better part of my afternoon reading from this post (#399) to the end of the thread for MD’s answer to no avail. I’m really interested in MD’s answer to this question.

Well, good luck with that!

 

[Teflon93]

Yes, it is a tough spot into which you’ve put yourself, Teflon93.

Perhaps in the future, you’ll no longer ape other Catholics, and you’ll be less specific in your sweeping generalities than they are in theirs; but maybe you won’t; I don’t know.

I say that in Love also.

You’ll just have to keep tuning in to find out, Sandusky.

Done aping Moondweller and BRB yet?

 

[Teflon93]

Need I remind you that the silliness of my request is in direct proportion to the silliness of
your assertion?

Let’s keep the spotlight on that, Teflon93—the silliness of your assertion.

Why should we, when it buries the completely bogus red herring you threw out?

Why, here it is again:

I understand that what I’ve presented to you concerning 1 Cor 11:29-32 is disconcerting to you, but then, God’s truth has that effect.

and

List all of those centuries of men who were fluent in the Greek and the Hebrew, Teflon93, and then list all of the men who wrote anything, so that we can compare the number of those fluent in the Greek and Hebrew, with the number of those who were not.

Boasting in the Lord is not pride, Teflon (1 Cor 1:31), if one understands what that means,
and I do.

Keep ‘em comin’, Sandusky, but for God’s sake—take a nice, deep breath first.

Think of something pleasant and soothing, like the aroma of incense at Mass, or the wonderful sound of the consecration of the Eucharist…

 

[sandusky]

You’ll just have to keep tuning in to find out, Sandusky.

Done aping Moondweller and BRB yet?

Are you done aping me; after all, I said it first.

 

[Teflon93]

Are you done aping me; after all, I said it first.

Oh, but I only ape* the best*.

I’d ape you in Greek and Hebrew—if you knew any.

 

[sandusky]

Teflon93:

Why should we, when it buries the completely bogus red herring you threw out?

The list of men, please?

Teflon93:

Think of something pleasant and soothing, like the aroma of incense at Mass, or the wonderful sound of the consecration of the Eucharist…

The CC does use the best incense I’ve ever smelled; however, I don’t recall the Eucharist making any sound while being consecrated.

Teflon93:

Oh, but I only ape the best.

Flatterer.

Teflon93:

I’d ape you in Greek and Hebrew—if you knew any.

And all those ”centuries of men who are fluent in languages” if you could list them.

 

[Teflon93]

The list of men, please?

Your bona fides, please?

The CC does use the best incense I’ve ever smelled; however, I don’t recall the Eucharist making any sound while being consecrated.

Diagram the sentence. You can even use English for that exercise!

And all those ”centuries of men who are fluent in languages” if you could list them.

You’re capable of providing your bona fides, surely.

Then I can subset it to “any of these with greater knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, and theology”.

Surely you’ve got phenomenal credentials, given how you invoke your own authority.

 

[sandusky]

Teflon93:

Your bona fides, please?
You’re capable of providing your bona fides, surely.

Then I can subset it to “any of these with greater knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, and theology”.

Surely you’ve got phenomenal credentials, given how you invoke your own authority.

Don’t you remember what guanophore told you the last time you were whining about my not publicly disclosing more personal information concerning myself than the forum rules require?

Again Teflon, my inquiry to you was not about me, but about the statement you made and cannot back up.

Teflon93:

Then I can subset it to “any of these with greater knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, and theology”.

I’m only interested in the those fluent in Hebrew and Greek; you know, the ones you’re unable to name.

 

[Teflon93]

Don’t you remember what guanophore told you the last time you were whining about my not publicly disclosing more personal information concerning myself than the forum rules require?

Don’t you remember the last time that I simply asked for your denomination so I could look it up in a list?

You don’t need to reveal any personal information whatsoever—simply your Hebrew, Greek, and theological academic credentials.

I have revealed far more than that in this very thread, and I’m not the one asserting authority.

Again Teflon, my inquiry to you was not about me, but about the statement you made and cannot back up.

Again, Sandusky, you claimed to have the mind of Christ, and to have produced findings based on your interpretation of a Greek word in (allegedly) 30 different translations.

You haven’t backed either assertion up.

Thus, we will safely presume you don’t know what you’re talking about and continue to listen to those who do—they make up the very visible Catholic Church.

I’m only interested in the those fluent in Hebrew and Greek; you know, the ones you’re unable to name.

I’m only interested in your fluency in Hebrew and Greek, given your assertions regarding your authority to weigh in on such matters.

Thus far, I can name one person who isn’t fluent or even marginally conversant in Hebrew and Greek—Sandusky.

Talking out your hat, however, you have mastered.

 

[sandusky]

Teflon93:

I have revealed far more than that in this very thread, and I’m not the one asserting authority.

You’re prideful, Teflon93, that’s why you reveal so much.

Anyway, I’ve asserted no more authority in my interpretation of Scripture on this forum than anyone else. I don’t consider my commenting on things in the Greek to be claiming authority in that area (not that I’m saying I have or don’t have authority in that area, but only that I don’t consider my commenting on the Greek as an assertion of my authority in the Greek. So your asking is just another dance step on your part, but you keep dancing, that’s about all you can do until you produce that list.)

Teflon93:

Again, Sandusky, you claimed to have the mind of Christ, and to have produced findings based on your interpretation of a Greek word in (allegedly) 30 different translations.

You haven’t backed either assertion up.

Regarding the former, that’s correct; regarding the latter, I don’t recall anyone asking me for that until now. That’s yet another dance step on your part. Keep those feet movin’.

You’re list of men please.

Teflon93:

Thus far, I can name one person who isn’t fluent or even marginally conversant in Hebrew and Greek—Sandusky.

That’s an assumption, but here’s the truth: you can’t name “all of those men fluent in Greek and Hebrew in your church.”

Keep dancing Teflon93, and I’ll keep waiting for that list.

Teflon93:

Talking out your hat, however, you have mastered.

The list, please.

 

[Teflon93]

You’re prideful, Teflon93, that’s why you reveal so much.

Prideful? Hardly. My cadet squadron commander is in astronaut training right now. THAT is something to be justifiably proud of.

You mistake confidence for pride, and you continue to woolgather as though I’d asked for private information. Then, as now, you make claims which are not verifiable to lend authority to whatever argument you’re forwarding, and when called on it, refuse to provide the credentials in accordance with your claims. An alternative is to stop making such claims.

Anyway, I’ve asserted no more authority in my interpretation of Scripture on this forum than anyone else. I don’t consider my commenting on things in the Greek to be claiming authority in that area (not that I’m saying I have no authority in that area, but only that I don’t consider my commenting on the Greek as an assertion of my authority in the Greek.

Sounds like a withdrawal to me. I’ll leave your claiming to know the mind of Christ to hyperbole.

So you’re asking is just another dance step on your part, but you keep dancing, that’s about all you can do until you produce that list.)

Cause and effect really does continue to elude you, doesn’t it?

Regarding the former, that’s correct; regarding the latter, I don’t recall anyone asking me for that until now. That’s yet another dance step on your part. Keep those feet movin’.

Perhaps constant repetition will make your claims true, is that it?

You’re list of men please.

Persons who speak no Hebrew or Greek and are therefore ridiculously incapable of speaking with authority on translations of Scripture from them: Sandusky

That’s an assumption, but here’s the truth: you can’t name “all of those men fluent in Greek and Hebrew in your church.”

It would certainly take a long time to fully enumerate them, any one of which is clearly more qualified than you are, who are not fluent in either Greek nor Hebrew, nor conversant in either language.

But keep tap-dancing, Sandusky—perhaps if you keep this up for another dozen posts you’ll be able to piece together a dazzling riposte in Greek or Hebrew from a translation website.

Keep dancing Teflon93, and I’ll keep waiting for that list.

When you ask for ridiculous things, you can expect to keep waiting for it. In the meantime, go back and reread my original post. Slowly. Taking deep breaths. While thinking wistfully of what it was like to be in the actual presence of God as you approached the altar of the Eucharist.

The list, please.

That was a great VH-1 show, wasn’t it?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Where in the bible does either Jesus or Paul state that once you have accepted Jesus as your savior and been baptised, you will not be judged if you become a murderer, child molester, adulterer, liar, thief…etc?

Any verse that hints toward it is immediately followed by the explanation. Paul talks of how saving grace and faith are, but he also immediatly talks of us following the Commandments…even if he doesn’t call them the 10 Commandments…lest we fail to inherit the Kingdom of God in our sinfulness.
Those are not exact quotes from the Bible, but from the quotes on this thread, it is obvious that those who believe that faith alone will save them do not follow the words of Christ Jesus or St. Paul…who is Catholic!!!

 

[Teflon93]

(To the lurkers)

The practice Sandusky’s currently engaging in is one non-Catholics around here indulge themselves in from time to time. I’ve dubbed it “running out the clock”, a term many will recognize from football.

In this case, however, they employ this tactic when they’re behind on points.

What happens is that when enough posts have strayed far enough off topic, our moderator will typically close down the thread, fruitful discussion having ceased.

They then run off to other threads and “run out the clock” there.

Keep an eye out—it’s fun in it’s own right to spot the practice, and it’s the closest thing one gets to an admission that the non-Catholic has conceded the argument as you’re ever likely to see.

Now back to this week’s episode of “Sandusky’s Red Herring Rodeo”—already in progress.

 

[Teflon93]

Where in the bible does either Jesus or Paul state that once you have accepted Jesus as your savior and been baptised, you will not be judged if you become a murderer, child molester, adulterer, liar, thief…etc?

This is a particularly good question to ask at the start of the Pauline Year.

We saw earlier where Christ advised keeping the Commandments, and where St Paul repeatedly lists practices related to the Commandments which will ensure those who do them will not inherit the kingdom.

The silence has been deafening.

Poor Odell’s been hammering away at this for days; he’s run out of points of font size to get Moondweller or Odell to engage on this point.

I guess we’re simply to take their word—on their own authority—that Christ abolished the Ten Commandments too, although he said the exact opposite.

Unlike Christ and St Paul, however, neither Sandusky nor Moondweller has been able to establish their authority for such interpretation of Scripture. Since they can’t prove such silliness as they espouse from Scripture, I suppose we’ll simply have to watch them evade the question some more.

Over to you, gentlemen.

 

[sandusky]

Teflon93:

You mistake confidence for pride,

Confidence? IMO, it’s stubborness.

Teflon93:

…and you continue to woolgather as though I’d asked for private information. Then, as now, you make claims which are not verifiable to lend authority to whatever argument you’re forwarding, and when called on it, refuse to provide the credentials in accordance with your claims. An alternative is to stop making such claims.

You should’ve taken that advice before you made your sweeping generalization, or be prepared to support it.

Teflon93:

I’ll leave your claiming to know the mind of Christ to hyperbole.

It’s neither hyperbole, nor Tradition, but it is scriptural, Teflon (IMO, you’re not properly taught, and you believe that only those in higher authority than yourself have the mind of Christ).

Teflon93:

Cause and effect really does continue to elude you, doesn’t it?

So does your list.

Teflon93:

It would certainly take a long time to fully enumerate them, any one of which is clearly more qualified than you are, who are not fluent in either Greek nor Hebrew, nor conversant in either language.

Regarding that former, I’ve already acknowledged that you’ve put yourself in a tight spot Teflon, and I’ll let it go because it’s such a large a task.

All you have to do is not mention any of this on this thread again, and neither will I, and that way we can see if ex-AF officers keep their word.

Regarding the latter, that’s an assumption.

Teflon93:

When you ask for ridiculous things, you can expect to keep waiting for it.

I’ve laid an offer before you that will withdraw my request; the ball’s in your court.

 

[Teflon93]

A related question springs to mind from Matthew 4:

“17”: From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Why did Jesus preach thusly?

If sin could not be conquered until the far side of the Cross, and if the Elect were irresisistibly called by God’s grace to be saved, and if all the work were done by Christ, what need was there for repentance at all?

Is repentance possible in such a salvation theology as we see with Moondweller and Sandusky?

And if it is possible, Moondweller at least nodding to free will, why does it stop being possible and relevant upon being baptized/born again?

 

[Teflon93]

Confidence? IMO, it’s stubborness.

You esteem your opinion overmuch and confound it with reality.

You should’ve taken that advice before you made your sweeping generalization, or be prepared to support it.

My sweeping generalization is easily refuted by your credentials, sir.

These not being in evidence, you woolgather and pettifog. Hmm, wonder what those terms would be in Greek and Hebrew? I’d better ask someone at Church—they’ll know.

It’s neither hyperbole, nor Tradition, but it is scriptural, Teflon (IMO, you’re not properly taught, and you believe that only those in higher authority than yourself have the mind of Christ).

Actually, I believe St Paul was referring to the Body of Christ—ie., the Church, in 1 Corinthians 2:16. I believe you may have erred in your translation of the Greek pronoun “we”, interpreting it to be St Paul using the “royal we”. The context indicates he’s speaking of the Church as a body. Hard for you to understand, surely, having willingly separated from that body.

So does your list.

So does your credentials. It’s really like filling out a Mad Lib responding to you, Sandusky.

Regarding that former, I’ve already acknowledged that you’ve put yourself in a tight spot Teflon, and I’ll let it go because it’s such a large a task.

There being so many linguists in a 1.3 billion strong Church, yes. It is not a tight spot given your ability to state your own qualifications, in which case I’m certain we can find many with stronger within the Church.

Probably on this board.

All you have to do is not mention any of this on this thread again, and neither will I, and that way we can see if ex-AF officers keep their word.

I cannot speak for all ex-Air Force officers, given my experiences with Merrill McPeak, but I can speak for myself. If you would like to get back on thread, I have no objection beyond the typing already done for this post.

Regarding the latter, that’s an assumption.

I’ve laid an offer before you that will withdraw my request; the ball’s in your court.

You may have the last word.

 

[sandusky]

(To the lurkers)

The practice Sandusky’s currently engaging in is one non-Catholics around here indulge themselves in from time to time. I’ve dubbed it “running out the clock”, a term many will recognize from football.

In this case, however, they employ this tactic when they’re behind on points.

What happens is that when enough posts have strayed far enough off topic, our moderator will typically close down the thread, fruitful discussion having ceased.

They then run off to other threads and “run out the clock” there.

Keep an eye out—it’s fun in it’s own right to spot the practice, and it’s the closest thing one gets to an admission that the non-Catholic has conceded the argument as you’re ever likely to see.

Now back to this week’s episode of “Sandusky’s Red Herring Rodeo”—already in progress.

Be aware that what Teflon93 is doing with this post, is known as Projection.

I’ve been trying to keep him on track (a very difficult thing to do).

A quick definition of Projection:Projection:

the attribution of one’s own ideas, feelings, or attitudes to other people or to objects; especially : the externalization of blame, guilt, or responsibility as a defense against anxiety
I know it’s a very difficult request to meet; you’re off the hook.

 

[Teflon93]

Be aware that what Teflon93 is doing with this post, is known as Projection.

I’ve been trying to keep him on track (a very difficult thing to do).

A quick definition of Projection:Projection:

the attribution of one’s own ideas, feelings, or attitudes to other people or to objects; especially : the externalization of blame, guilt, or responsibility as a defense against anxiety
I know it’s a very difficult request to meet; you’re off the hook.

Is that your last word, Sandusky?