Commentary: Islam was a religion of love, and the Taj Mahal proves it

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Servant19 said:
The higher love is to love them for the love that God has instilled in them.

For a Muslim, the source of the love instilled in them is the Prophet Muhammad. I acknowledge and revere the source of that love, and that is Muhammad. Therefore, I revere the Prophet Muhammad.

If, however, the Prophet created not one Saint, not one person that would admire because of their humility, love and service to all, then I would reconsider my position on my reverence for Prophet Muhammad.

It’s very simple.

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You’re changing what you actually said again.

Let me ask you. Can someone love two billion Muslims if they do not revere, respect or accept Muhammad in anyway?
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
You’re changing what you actually said again.

Let me ask you. Can someone love two billion Muslims if they do not revere, respect or accept Muhammad in anyway?
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Yes, but love is a matter of degrees.

The higher degree of love is to love them also for the SOURCE of what makes them beautiful human beings who contribute towards a loving community.

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Servant19 said:
Yes, but love is a matter of degrees.

The higher degree of love is to love them also for the SOURCE of what makes them beautiful human beings who contribute towards a loving community.

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That doesn’t match what you said before. You accused those who do not revere Muhammad as the Mediator of love between God and man of a glossed over love. That statement of a mediator of love between God and man is not found in the Quran and more applicable to Jesus than Muhammad since Jesus died for us. Muhammad gave some laws, established sharia and gave us a civilisation that is still under performing when compared to the previous dispensation (according to your understanding anyway). That however is not the main point. Notice what you said before.

“Humbly, unless you truly revere Prophet Muhammad as the mediator of love between God and man, then it is not true love you have for 2 billion people, it is a “glossed over” love.”

You’ve changed your position, you said it is not true you have love for 2 billion people, calling it a glossed over love. Now you say, yes to the proposition of loving those despite not regarding their prophet.

That was my point the entire time Servant. I think you ignore what you yourself say, that or you make up these phrases which you have no idea what they mean and when contradicted you invent another line of argumentation.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
That doesn’t match what you said before. You accused those who do not revere Muhammad as the Mediator of love between God and man of a glossed over love. That statement of a mediator of love between God and man is not found in the Quran and more applicable to Jesus than Muhammad since Jesus died for us. Muhammad gave some laws, established sharia and gave us a civilisation that is still under performing when compared to the previous dispensation (according to your understanding anyway). That however is not the main point. Notice what you said before.

“Humbly, unless you truly revere Prophet Muhammad as the mediator of love between God and man, then it is not true love you have for 2 billion people, it is a “glossed over” love.”

You’ve changed your position, you said it is not true you have love for 2 billion people, calling it a glossed over love. Now you say, yes to the proposition of loving those despite not regarding their prophet.

That was my point the entire time Servant. I think you ignore what you yourself say, that or you make up these phrases which you have no idea what they mean and when contradicted you invent another line of argumentation.
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Since all love comes from God, and a Muslim only knows the love of God through Muhammad, then I would say that Muhammad IS Jesus, something Muhammad testified to Himself…so to say Muhammad is a mediator between God and man is not false teaching.

Jesus, Muhammad and Baha’u’llah are all one in the Word.

GLOSSED OVER LOVE is to say you love them but call their entire belief system as false.

TRUE LOVE is to love them for all that they are, INCLUDING the foundations of their belief.

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Servant19 said:
then I would say that Muhammad IS Jesus, something Muhammad testified to Himself
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Out of all the things ive learnt about muhammad, i have never heard this. Can you show the source where muhammad says he is jesus. Islamic source only please.
 
dolphinlove said:
Out of all the things ive learnt about muhammad, i have never heard this. Can you show the source where muhammad says he is jesus. Islamic source only please.
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Since Jesus said “before Abraham was, I AM” How could you find anywhere Mohamed saying he is Jesus?

MJ
 
dolphinlove said:
Out of all the things ive learnt about muhammad, i have never heard this. Can you show the source where muhammad says he is jesus. Islamic source only please.
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MartinJordan said:
Since Jesus said “before Abraham was, I AM” How could you find anywhere Mohamed saying he is Jesus?

MJ
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One needs to look at this in the context of the Divine reality of Jesus and Muhammad. In that Divine reality, they shared a oneness which is eternal and pre-existent. While Jesus said He ascended “from” heaven and was the “I am”, Muhammad said “‘I was a prophet when Adam was between water and clay’- before he came into existence” (Ibn Arabi, Futuhat 1243)

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Servant19 said:
One needs to look at this in the context of the Divine reality of Jesus and Muhammad. In that Divine reality, they shared a oneness which is eternal and pre-existent. While Jesus said He ascended “from” heaven and was the “I am”, Muhammad said “‘I was a prophet when Adam was between water and clay’- before he came into existence” (Ibn Arabi, Futuhat 1243)

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Ok, this is one line of islamic throught (sufi). Is there more mainstream islamic proof that muhammad said he is Jesus?
 
Servant19 said:
One needs to look at this in the context of the Divine reality of Jesus and Muhammad. In that Divine reality, they shared a oneness which is eternal and pre-existent. While Jesus said He ascended “from” heaven and was the “I am”, Muhammad said “‘I was a prophet when Adam was between water and clay’- before he came into existence” (Ibn Arabi, Futuhat 1243)

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This is an interesting link - muslim.org/sa-case/evidence/s07.htm

It ends with this;

Statements of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad about the Sufi Saints

“Of all the leaders of Tasawwuf that there have been till the present day, not even one has disagreed with the point that in this religion the path to become the likes of prophets is open, as the Holy Prophet Muhammad has given the glad tidings for spiritual and godly learned persons that ‘the Ulama of my nation are like the Israelite Prophets’. The words of Abu Yazid Bustami given below, which are recorded in Tazkirat al-Auliya by Farid-ud-Din Attar, and are also found in other reliable works, are on this basis, as he says:** ‘I am Adam, I am Seth, I am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Moses, I am Jesus, I am Muhammad, **peace be upon him and upon all these brothers of his’.” (Izala Auham, pp. 258 – 259)

“We can prove to every seeker-after-truth, conclusively and definitely, that from the time of the Holy Prophet Muhammad till the present day there have been, in every century, godly persons through whom God has shown heavenly signs to other communities to guide them [towards Islam]. There have been in Islam persons such as Sayyid Abdul Qadir Jilani, Abul Hasan Khartani, Abu Yazid Bustami, Junaid of Baghdad, Muhiyud-Din Ibn Arabi, Zul-Noon of Egypt, Mu‘in-ud-Din Chishti, Qutub-ud-Din Bukhtiar, Farid-ud-Din of Pak Patan, Nizam-ud-Din of Delhi, Shah Wali-ullah of Delhi, and Shaikh Ahmad of Sirhind. The number of such persons runs into thousands, and the miracles of so many people are recorded in scholarly and learned works that even a prejudiced opponent, despite his great bias, has to concede finally that these persons showed miracles and extraordinary signs.” (Kitab al-Barriyya, p. 67)
 
Servant19 said:
Since all love comes from God, and a Muslim only knows the love of God through Muhammad, then I would say that Muhammad IS Jesus, something Muhammad testified to Himself…so to say Muhammad is a mediator between God and man is not false teaching.

Jesus, Muhammad and Baha’u’llah are all one in the Word.

GLOSSED OVER LOVE is to say you love them but call their entire belief system as false.

TRUE LOVE is to love them for all that they are, INCLUDING the foundations of their belief.

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Again, I have made the point that in order to make that statement you would have to respect the belief system of Jim Jones, the Prophets of Baal and a whole host of evil men in order to love their followers.

Now that I’ve finally pinned you down, don’t wiggle away from this discussion. Do you accept Christian foundational claims about their faith? You reject every single one of our core theological doctrines but you would claim you love us. If you are consistent you will have to admit you can only love us with a glossed over Love.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Again, I have made the point that in order to make that statement you would have to respect the belief system of Jim Jones, the Prophets of Baal and a whole host of evil men in order to love their followers.

Now that I’ve finally pinned you down, don’t wiggle away from this discussion. Do you accept Christian foundational claims about their faith? You reject every single one of our core theological doctrines but you would claim you love us. If you are consistent you will have to admit you can only love us with a glossed over Love.
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If you tell them they have Glossed over all core theological doctrines and are wrong, they will just Gloss that over too.🙂
 
Servant19 said:
Since all love comes from God, and a Muslim only knows the love of God through Muhammad, then I would say that Muhammad IS Jesus, something Muhammad testified to Himself…so to say Muhammad is a mediator between God and man is not false teaching.

Jesus, Muhammad and Baha’u’llah are all one in the Word.

GLOSSED OVER LOVE is to say you love them but call their entire belief system as false.

TRUE LOVE is to love them for all that they are, INCLUDING the foundations of their belief.

.
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How can Muhammad be a mediator between God and Man when he was a sinner and a mere mortal himself ?
 
dolphinlove said:
Ok, this is one line of islamic throught (sufi). Is there more mainstream islamic proof that muhammad said he is Jesus?
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You will have to do your own research on Sunni teachings on this teaching. Sunni scholar Muhammad Alawi al-Maliki has published a book called “Muhammad, Insan al Kamil” which covers this area.

It’s not an area of mainstream teaching as such because Muhammad’s Dispensation focussed on the non-Divine, human aspect of Prophethood, given that He was in a polytheistic and idol worshipping climate.

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IgnatianPhilo said:
Again, I have made the point that in order to make that statement you would have to respect the belief system of Jim Jones, the Prophets of Baal and a whole host of evil men in order to love their followers.

Now that I’ve finally pinned you down, don’t wiggle away from this discussion. Do you accept Christian foundational claims about their faith? You reject every single one of our core theological doctrines but you would claim you love us. If you are consistent you will have to admit you can only love us with a glossed over Love.
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There’s no wiggling Ignatian

It is a fact that I love and cherish every word in the Bible, and am happy to worship Jesus as God.

Could you say the same about Muhammad?

I think not.

I need not worship Jim Jones for he produced nothing, no fruit. I worship the source of ALL good fruit, and Muhammad is one of them.

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Techno2000 said:
How can Muhammad be a mediator between God and Man when he was a sinner and a mere mortal himself ?
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He’s a mediator between man and God because those who were raised with His teachings can easily be called Saints.

Look at Malala Yousefzai. A teenage youth, born and raised a Muslim. Lives her life devoutly by Muhammad’s teachings and is seen by many around the world as a saint, a shining hope for the emancipation of women. A teenage girl!

If Muhammad can inspire such rich spirit, such love for humankind, for freedom and spiritual liberty, and if God is love and spirit, then Muhammad has to be a mediator between God and man…
JimmyDFG said:
The same for Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí,
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You have no idea how many Saints this Manifestation of God has produced since He came to earth 170 or so years ago.

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JimmyDFG said:
Catholic or Christian Saints? None
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Lol

Ok. The Baha’i Faith produces Catholic saints. Never heard that one before!

The Saints of the Baha’i religion have transformed communities which were in need of charity and dependence on others, into self sustaining communities no longer dependent on others, but with the capacity to become an ever-advancing community, all guided by the power of the Holy Spirit.

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Servant19 said:
Lol

Ok. The Baha’i Faith produces Catholic saints. Never heard that one before!

The Saints of the Baha’i religion have transformed communities which were in need of charity and dependence on others, into self sustaining communities no longer dependent on others, but with the capacity to become an ever-advancing community, all guided by the power of the Holy Spirit.

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That’s why you haven’t named one.
 
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