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Son_of_Niall
Guest
Good points, all.
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Kliska
Guest
I agree that the “church as entertainment” model needs to end.
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St_Francis
Guest
Wow! I have a choice of two places to go to Mass–one is the I have been saying these same things about, including being emotionally manipulated! The other is true to Catholic worship.
We come to Mass in all different states: some are mourning, some are joyful, and we come together to worship God, to put Him over our joys, fears, or sorrows. It’s an insult to those mourning a death to try to get them into a happy place by music. And it’s an insult to God to portray worship as this frenzied clapping state.
We come to Mass in all different states: some are mourning, some are joyful, and we come together to worship God, to put Him over our joys, fears, or sorrows. It’s an insult to those mourning a death to try to get them into a happy place by music. And it’s an insult to God to portray worship as this frenzied clapping state.
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Aslan10
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I fully agree with this article. I attend a church in college that enjoyed rock band style of worship and the “worship leaders” ran the show, whilst the congregation was caught in a frenzy of emotional distraction. Sadly, I truly do think people believe that they were “feeling” the holy spirit. These churches do a great service in many ways, particularly getting young people to care about Christ, who otherwise wouldn’t. However, I’m afraid they’ve been roped into something that is fundamentally deceiving in the worship.
That being said, Christianity needs a renaissance within its worship music, that falls in line with the traditions of the west–the rock band worship is not working and many of those young people wake up and grow out of it. We need new hymn writers and musicians that write beautiful music that isn’t wrapped up in emotionalism. That, or we just need to stick to what is already beautiful and has been created in the past. Just my not so humble opinion.
That being said, Christianity needs a renaissance within its worship music, that falls in line with the traditions of the west–the rock band worship is not working and many of those young people wake up and grow out of it. We need new hymn writers and musicians that write beautiful music that isn’t wrapped up in emotionalism. That, or we just need to stick to what is already beautiful and has been created in the past. Just my not so humble opinion.
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Augustine
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It’s more nefarious than that. The Missal already provides all the antiphons for the Mass. It also allows for some alternatives, including ad hoc hymns, but it is the last of the four alternatives. Why do pastors default to the least preferred alternative instead of the regular antiphons? Methinks that they do in a drive to look like protestants, selling out the Catholic identity in order to be accepted by mainstream American Protestantism. Obviously, it’s working, for it’s hard to tell a contemporary Catholic church, nay, community, from a protestant congregation, be it in the appearance of sanctuary or of the worship. The fate of such Catholic churches will not be different from mainline protestant churches either. Hey, we now even have the weight of an encyclical behind their typical pet cause: global warming.
Pax Christi
Pax Christi
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abucs
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exnihilo
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Disney does a lot of very terrible things and their media promotes evil while pretending to be wholesome. Corporations do care about boycotts, if they are effective. So there is nothing bizarre about boycotting Disney. The boycott was ineffective because Christians willing to boycott are not a large enough group to make a financial difference and US culture does not care about Christians. Boycotts by homosexuals (a very small group) or Blacks (also a fairly small minority in the US as a whole) or other groups can be effective.
I agree. If the motivation is to look like Protestant worship the end result is a poor, second rate imitation. There is beauty that transcends time and place in how the ancient Churches worshipped. it is hard to find that beauty in our culture and that is a travesty.
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Murmurs
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I doubt if we sucked an earthly Simon-Peter from 1st-century Rome to even a 19th-century Catholic church in the United States, or anywhere in the world, he’d recognise most of the liturgy, music, etc, as having very much in common with what he was used to; the point and purpose, of course - but little of how it is/was orchestrated.
While I can’t disagree with the article in the OP, (and my personal preferences are very traditional) it’s probably disingenuous to characterise all “modern worship music” as being concerned only with itself, a one-dimensional Saviour (when He is mentioned at all) and the money it can make. Amid the writers of all the flimsy trash there are some wonderful and talented ones - just as if we open a 19th century hymnal there is an awful lot of dross.
We need to a) be careful that we don’t mistake personal preferences for objective criticism, and:
b) give all church musicians more respect, given that in our parishes those who are prepared to lead musically each week are woefully overlooked, in nearly every case giving up considerable time to serve in this way.
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Aslan10
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I don’t think the whole of protestantism should be lumped into this category. While the latin services of the CC are beautiful no doubt, there are many protestant services that are beautiful as well. Many within my own tradition and those of Lutheranism, even some Presbyterian.
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Della
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I agree. I think the poster meant to say the more emotionally driven sects within Protestantism. Although, some of our charismatic people in the RCC can be right there with them. Many equate how they feel at Mass or a Protestant church service with worship. Feelings can come into it, but true worship knows nothing about feelings. It’s a giving of ourselves to God, because he deserves it, not primarily carrying away some “experience” or emotion, yes?
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Padres1969
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Thank you for saying this, as it’s true. I mean just the other day I was talking to one of my priests and he was saying they’ve had an issue during their Spanish mass lately with visiting Catholics wandering in and mistaking our church for a Catholic one celebrating the Ordinary Form in Spanish. Not all non-Catholic churches subscribe to this “worship industry” mentality. A very large number in fact do quite the opposite. I mean there’s no singing at all during the 8am mass I typically attend.
And by experience I know my church (both local and overall) is in no way unique among non-Catholic churches.
That said, I have been to churches, typically in the non-denominational/baptist family, that are steeped in this style of worship to one extent or another. And while I agree that it can easily be abused it’s not entirely useless either. I mean two of the most devout Christians I know attend a church that uses this type of worship where the band leader is essentially the prayer leader for all but the bible lesson/sermon which the pastor gives. And while it does move them to an extent I don’t see it devolving on their part into anything but a way to pray as they sing along, etc… as Catholics and others do to hymns.
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exnihilo
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I agree and didn’t mean to. As a former Protestant I attended a very traditional Protestant church in terms of worship style. We had a liturgy and the hymn singing was all old, traditional Protestant hymns. The services could be quite beautiful. In fact my point more fully expressed was that the hymn singing was far superior as the congregation was aware of and could actually sing four part harmony. Catholic hymn singing often reminds me of being at church camp as a youth.
I agree. But would 19th century Catholic worship seem more consistent or would modern worship?
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Kurisu35712
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Austin might be that way, but Austin is weird. College Station and Dallas churches aren’t that way in the slightest. If the congregations in Austin are starting to appear Protestant, perhaps the community needs better catechesis, though that could be said for quite a number of laypeople. You should come to College Station instead! Burnt orange is a gross color anyway.
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phil19034
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Monica - the problem with the enjoyable pop music is that it’s a distraction.
That’s what good pop music is supposed to be… it’s supposed to be catchy, enjoyable, and provides us with a distraction for our lives. That’s what pop music is supposed to be, for enjoyment. Good Christian rock is very good for us. It should be on the radio, it should be on our iPods, etc. We need more of it.
However, when it’s used at Mass, it draws us into the music.
Example: two Sundays ago I went to a teen mass, where the singers were using electric guitar, pop singers, drums, etc. When they rocked out the Psalm, I could not understand a single thing the singer was saying… I couldn’t make out the words. What good is it to sing the Psalms if you can’t understand what’s being sung?
Then, while they rocked it out during the gifts, people were focused away from the altar and totally on the band.
The problem with this music isn’t that it’s bad… the problem is that it too catchy and takes our attention away from the altar. Gregorian Chant on the other hand has a very calming, even hypnotic affect. You don’t typically having people wanting to air guitar during a chat. Chant helps us to focus on the altar, that’s why it was used for so long and why Vatican II stated that it should remain as the norm.
God Bless
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Kurisu35712
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I had a reply to this, and was going to say God of Mercy and Compassion is a really wonderful contemporary hymn. And then I looked it up and realized it was written in the 1700’s by Pergolesi. Point was, not all contemporary Christian music is bad. The culture of non-denominational Christianity makes me really uncomfortable and sad though. Like, it’s good that so many people can still be enthusiastic about Jesus, but I would occasionally go with my girlfriend’s family and then go to mass later in the evening, and while the singing was a nice experience (since our choir wasn’t that great), the spirituality was never really there for me.
When the choir here sings that hymn though, I’ve started crying every time. It’s one of the few that manages to get me every time I hear it.
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phil19034
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I know a pastor who loves the Latin Mass and offers one every weekend and once on Wednesdays. If it were up to him, the Latin Mass would be done all the time.
I once spoke to him about the antiphons and showed him the Ignatius Pew Missal that is beautifully done.
His response to me was telling: he said the problem is that volunteer cantors, choirs, etc. won’t listen to him and they insist on doing it their way or not at all. He said it took him a year to get them to sing a Marian Hymn at the end of every Mass. So he said he has a choice to make, no singing at all or let them sing the hymns in the OPS (Oregon Catholic Press) hymnal.
Until OPS and others like them change, it’s a real uphill battle for priests - which i think is the point of the article.
NOTE: I believe that Archbishop Sample is trying to introduce more tradition to the OCP, but most companies do not have to do everything the Board of Directors say. So it will take time to influence change.
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exnihilo
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It is funny to me that the vernacular has been promoted with the idea of increasing understanding while at the same time chant has been dropped and complex singing has been introduced. I couldn’t understand the lady who sang the Psalm this last Sunday. She had a very nice voice, but the style was too fancy to understand. We also had an African priest. I can understand him for the most part despite his accent. But he chanted just a few small parts of the liturgy. I could understand him the best when he chanted.
Not at all is fine with me. I prefer daily Mass. I am disappointed when on a Holy Day of Obligation they add music.
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Jon_Mallory
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I don’t know when or how the liturgy became subject to peoples’ personal preferences/taste but it is not continuous with the Catholic tradition. Changes have been made throughout history to the Roman liturgy but always with the intention of nourishing souls and making saints. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger disagrees with your opinion that music is subjective.
He writes in his The Feast of Faith, “Through rhythm and melody themselves, pagan music often endeavors to elicit an ecstasy of the senses as a means of release. This imbalance toward the senses recurs in modern popular music: the “God” found here, the salvation of man identified here, is quite different from the God of the Christian faith.”
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If Cardinal Ratzinger's view here appears extreme, it is only because western culture has drifted so far from its Christian roots. Music used to be taken seriously but a high view of it has no place now in our utilitarian culture. The value of objects are determined by their usefulness. Pop music gives us results. It releases the neurotransmitter dopamine, which makes us feel pleasure in the way Gregorian Chant just doesn't do.P.S.S. In my opinion, the commercialized music in some “liturgies” hurts ecumenical relations with the Orthodox who have an understanding of liturgy that is more consistent with past Christian thought. Cardinal Newman wrote over a hundred years ago that if St. Athanasius were alive, he would feel right at home in the Catholic Church. Now, I am not so sure. I think many of the Saints wouldn’t recognize it today. We need to restore a high view of liturgy that Vatican II actually sought to protect.
By the way, I enjoy pop music but I think the context in which one enjoys it matters.
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pnewton
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I have quite a bit of choice on liturgical resources. I guess it makes no sense to boycott someone that provides a service I like. Perhaps “boycott” is term that makes no sense here. Choosing not to buy a product you are dissatisfied with just because you personally are not satisfied is just a decision.
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