Comments on an older closed thread - Folk Masses

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mmbernadette

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There was a fascinating thread I read on these boards I found while looking up some of the music I sang while doing Folk Masses when young. Some of the comments there were interesting, some were - er, insulting, some were laughable, and some had definite valid questions, and I thought as someone who was actively involved in Folk Masses for over five years - as a family - I would try to educate with what experiences I had collected.

We (my father on guitar, my mother on wooden recorder, me as second soprano sang at a local Folk Mass at the Cathedral at 4:15pm every Saturday. The rest of the choir was rounded out by other young folks from the congregation, & folks from other congregations who wanted to be part of the Folk Mass experience. There were a few guitars which made for a robust sound, we had altos, sopranos, second sopranos (me and Diane), and Basses from one fellow whse voice was a wonder, maybe occasionally tambourine, but judiciously, triangle; in short - we were a rounded choir in every sense of the meaning. We had rehearsals for an hour in the church basement before each Mass and if there were solos, who was doing what.

We sang contemporary (for that time) spiritual music from the likes of The St. Louis Jesuits, the Dameans, Ray Repp, and Joe Wise.

The premise of the Mass itself was the same - I do not recall different Missals. I remember the younger preists of the Cathedral’s officiants being mostly the ones to preside over Mass. The people who came to mass - and it was always well attended, ranged from the younger generation to those who would normally attend Mass; there was no specific demographic as to who attended, but all those who did participated when we sang. We printed off mimeographed/Xeroxed copies of what songs we would be singing that week, and for those who cared to follow along, they could pick up a folded four page booklet that included lyrics and music before Mass on their way in. Many, many people came to know our repetoire and sang along with us.

The Masses themselves followed the regular Mass as it would be set out in the missals, just instead of a traditional “Kyrie”, we might do an updated version, or “Lord, I am not worthy…” I don’t ever remember singing Simon and Garfunkel (and I knew their music well in my house), or Bob Dylan (not so well known in my house). Perhaps a “Godspell” song - “Let The Sun Shine In” but never often enough. All our songs were actual re-interpretations of established spiritual songs. I remember Psalm Sunday, where you have to do the reading of the whole story, with all the parts - my Dad was one of the parts. We tried to give the Masses - while following doctrine - more, not entertainment, but engagement value for the attendants.

One of my favorite songs in my head has been on repeat all day: “If God is for us, then who can be against, if the Spirit of God has set us free?”

Obviously, there was a real altar. A real consecrated altar; the same one they used for every other Mass at the Cathedral. None of the priests rode Harleys; one did own a saiboat for his personal use on vacation time - does that count as “hippie-time”? 👍

We received thanks each week from Mass-attendees; not that that was our reason for doing the Masses. They thanked us for the beautiful music, for making the service more engaging, for helping them find a way to not feel guilty about skipping Mass any more because now they had a viable alternative that they could enjoy, for making Mass “fun”, and making them feel like they were participating and not just “watching” with an empty feeling, and most of them walking out sometimes right after the Homily or after Communion.

We were, by no means, hippies. We were poor, but I didn’t know that back then. My dad taught at a Seminary. My Mom taught religion to the kids who went to the secular high school but elected for a religious class once a week, and also worked for a local Religious College as their Director of Grants. My sister and I attended the local Catholic grade school where I got treated like religious royalty (kinda ruins your social life, but oh well - when you know all the nuns outside the school setting, and all the priests because of your Dad or your work with the Church or because they’ve all been to dinner-parties at your house, you kinda give up on being known as “normal”. I didn’t know how to talk to kids my own age. I always did the readings at the Masses at school, or sang, or whatever, was picked for special projects…normal was out of the question.) until I went to 7th grade at the local high school. Even there, I was known as “the holy kid”, like my dad was some kind of minister or something. We lived across the street from the Bishop, a lovely Polish gentleman who studied with Pope John II but never impinged upon their previous friendship. I learned to ride my bike in the Biship’s driveway with my dad - the Bishop used that in many of his homilies.

I also knew all the latin music from the masses and choral pieces. I knew a traditional High Mass from the more casual Saturday Masses. I knew the entire latin Mass, scarf on the head, included, Fish on Friday. During lent, we ate a meager meal once a week and put money in the Unicef box in the middle of the table.

My parents had such success with the Folk Mass, they started a Children’s Mass on Sundays, where parents could bring their children (under 5) and have a Mass of their own, albeit likely in a non-traditional sense. Readings might come from Dr. Seuss, but the lessons about caring for the least of my brothers were not lost on the kids. These became very successful too and were copied all over the diocese.

I’d be happy to answer any questions about Folk Masses that anyone has, if i know anything about the answer. I just thought some of my rememberances might clear up some misconceptions.

Blessings;

mmbernadette
 
Interesting remembrances…thanks for sharing.

I noticed that you are a lapsed Catholic. How is it that you lapsed from the Church after having been so involved in your growing up years?
 
Well, God and I had a little falling out when I was 14. I felt I had been a good and faithful servant and awarded some protection from the vices of men, and God disagreed.

When I was in high-school, I took a Comparative Religions course that really opened my eyes, and I began exploring other belief systems, and finding similarities within all beliefs, basically. Core tenets were primarily all the same. It seemed to me that that the Catholic Church was the only one that after 2000 years still treated women as second-class citizens. That kind of turned me off a lot, as well.

Then my mother, who is as devout as they come, began working for the church as a fundraiser. After one failed experience after another, I made her promise me she would not work for the Church any more. Anyone who has dealings working inside the church knows there is a lot of pettiness, jockying for position, jealousy, and - in a word - nastiness. Her last experience working for the Church, after I begged her not to work for them again, she met every fund-raising goal they set for her, even though it was a failing economy. They made up reasons to let her go - lies, basically, which I have documented.

My mother, who is a Eucharistic Minister, and as I mentioned very devout, ended up trying to commit suicide. Now - half of that I put down to genes - of 5 sisters, 2 killed themselves, one was murdered when in her teens, one seems fine, and my mom was the latest to try to commit suicide. The nurse at the hospital said, “She wasn’t kidding; she did the job. We only got to her in the nick of time.” But the other half I put down to the way the Diocese she worked for treated her, belittled her, and devastated her. She was ready to sin due to what the Church had done to her. That sort of angers me a little more.

And in my youth, after i had my “problem”, a priest told my mother it never happened; I was just acting out for attention. Cause I didn’t “act” like someone who had been in that position. So, the dicoese thought i was a liar, my mother thought I was a liar for almost ten years, and I ended up not getting the help I needed except for my father who found out from some friends of mine and then asked me if it was true, and when I confirmed it, he asked what i wanted to do. I told him, “Get me out of here, or I’ll be dead within a year: either they’ll kill me, or I’ll kill myself.”

Thank God he listened and we moved halfway across the country, but I was messed up and never got the help I needed, because my Dad was so uncomfortable, he basically stopped talking to me for ten years. So I acted out. A LOT.

Don’t get me wrong - there are a lot of things I still love about Catholicism. Sometimes I miss Mass, I miss the Eucharist, but I would be a hippocrate to step inside a church for my own reasons and not those of a wedding or baptism or the like. I have a belief system that incorporates a lot of different things from a lot of different Religions, some of them Catholic, but I don’t have the kind of relationship with Jesus or God that I once did. At least not by those names.

I have now found inner peace with my core beliefs, the whole alphabet soup of them, and I won’t bore you with what that or they are, but I no longer feel alienated from my own brand of spirituality. I have beautiful memories of being a praticing Catholic. I know too many priests who liked to “tickle” me and my sister, learning later they left the priesthood and got married. There are priests I know for sure that are Gay, but I would never out them (even though one is the jerk who accused me of lying).

And I guess you could say i got “burned out” by all that i was involved with as a kid. And then finding I was not an equal citizen to the Vatican - straw, camel, snap. I now read the Agnostic gospels, like the Gospel of St.Thomas, which is fascinating, and the gospel of Mary Magdalene - but that’s a whole 'nother topic. 😃

Thanks for asking.

I still do love the music we sang, and listen to it sometimes, as nostalga, as spirituality, as a conduit to my higher Power. It was a beautiful, innocent time in my life, and one i cherish with all my heart.

Blessings,

mmbernadette
 
We have a total of six Masses over the weekend. One has traditional music, one has a mixture of musical styles and one has “folk” music from the 1960s. Most of the youngsters think that the traditional and “folk” Masses both have classical music.
 
We have a total of six Masses over the weekend. One has traditional music, one has a mixture of musical styles and one has “folk” music from the 1960s. Most of the youngsters think that the traditional and “folk” Masses both have classical music.
I’d be sad to be one of those youngsters. :rolleyes:
 
I’d be sad to be one of those youngsters. :rolleyes:
Why? Some of those songs, sung in traditional four to six part harmonies is aboslutely glorious.

We did several masses where the choirs were mixed, they did some songs, we did some songs, we sang some songs together, and I - knowing all the music equally well having sung in the adult choral choir because of my voice at a young age - thought it sounded resplendent and lifted us all up that much closer to God. I also sang in special out-of-church chorals with latin music, German music, English music, all very traditional, and I enjoyed that as well.

Being closed minded is not an attractive feature in any faith. Try to see the beauty in what others see!

Remember: If God is for us, who can be against, if the Spirit of God has set us free?

That was The St. Louis Jesuits’ song we sang, I believe, and one of my favorites.👍

Oh, and it was the 70s and early 80s.
 
Why? Some of those songs, sung in traditional four to six part harmonies is aboslutely glorious.

We did several masses where the choirs were mixed, they did some songs, we did some songs, we sang some songs together, and I - knowing all the music equally well having sung in the adult choral choir because of my voice at a young age - thought it sounded resplendent and lifted us all up that much closer to God. I also sang in special out-of-church chorals with latin music, German music, English music, all very traditional, and I enjoyed that as well.

Being closed minded is not an attractive feature in any faith. Try to see the beauty in what others see!

Remember: If God is for us, who can be against, if the Spirit of God has set us free?

That was The St. Louis Jesuits’ song we sang, I believe, and one of my favorites.👍

Oh, and it was the 70s and early 80s.
Those hootenanny/kumbaya spirituals of the sixties masquerading as Masses were in good part what kept me away for many years. I’m sorry to hear anyone is trying to bring that stuff back and I think it’s clear in the latest revision of the Liturgy that the Vatican is pulling us in the opposite direction, finally.
 
We have a total of six Masses over the weekend. One has traditional music, one has a mixture of musical styles and one has “folk” music from the 1960s. Most of the youngsters think that the traditional and “folk” Masses both have classical music.
By now, the Folk music is it’s own TYPE of classical music in its own right, I feel, and has earned its place in our history just as much as many other things. Just because it hasn’t existed for a hundred years, doesn’t mean it isn’t classical.

Yo-Yo Ma, acclaimed cellist: his personal works, especially his work on the soundtrack to Schindler’s List has now ben entered into the National Archives as Classical Music, along with MUCH if not ALL of John Williams’ movie scores.

I think it depends upon your perspective.

Silent Night - Stille Nacht - by Father Joseph Mohr was written in 1818. It is considered a timeless classic, but is actually a work written after a devestating tragedy. Adeste Fedelis has been attributed to Handel, Gluck, John of Reading, but has been concluded that John Francis Wade probably wrote it in 1751 or so. It has been translated into 8 languages.The English translation “Oh Come All Ye Faithful” was provided by English Catholic Priest Frederick Oakley.

Holy Cripes, just look up the word “Kyrie” on Wikipedia - its FILLED with referenes of secular and non secular uses. I personally liked Mister Mister’s version of “Kyrie” and Juno Reactor’s version with “Kyrie” in the background. But “Kyrie” has also been one of my favorite parts of Mass, and one of the oldest. And the St. Louis Jesuits covered it in their repetoire, and I ADORED their version. It hit a note that made me feel transported to God.

See, a reinterpretation of something considered a “classic” I don’t believe negates it off the bat necessarily. And new music is being called classical all the time. So we have to redefine what “classical” means. And not just in a liturgical meaning.

Aren’t there OTHER things in a mass which need to be updated as well; not just the MUSIC?

Something to ponder, but I am here purely for the music I loved so much back then, and do to this day with a passion.

Blessings,

mmbernadette:)

[Edited for my crazy, wonky typing]
 
And in contrast it was what enabled me to find Christ through the catholic church. flag waving traditionalism is a right turn off for me…horses for courses as the saying goes. If God is for Us was a favorite of mine too.
 
Those hootenanny/kumbaya spirituals of the sixties masquerading as Masses were in good part what kept me away for many years. I’m sorry to hear anyone is trying to bring that stuff back and I think it’s clear in the latest revision of the Liturgy that the Vatican is pulling us in the opposite direction, finally.
We, personally, never ever sang “Kumbaya”, or did a “hootenany” which I think is more like a country dance with cowboy boots and a potluck after with Moonshine. Not very Church-y.

No, we did a full Mass, in a Cathedral, with a priest from the rectory of the Cathedral, it was sanctifed and given the go-ahead and encouraged by the Cathedral AND the BISHOP. I very much doubt Bishop Stanislaw Breshevsky ( a classmate of Pope John Paul II) woul have allowed a “hootenany” or anything else “masquerading as a Mass”, and I deeply take offense to your classification of what we were doing as anything less than celebrating the Sacred Sacrement. The Bishop himself presided over some of our Masses and told us he enjoyed them greatly; he also enjoyed the fact that it helped bring younger members of the congregation into greater interaction within the Mass.

He told me this personally as I rode my bike in his driveway in his backyard and gave me souveniers Blessed from Pope John Paul II I have till this day, even though i am a lapsed Catholic. I still pray - to this day - in my own way - for the Bishop, and Pope John Paul II.

I get that you may not like the kind of Masses we celebrated; they may not have been your cup of tea, shall we say. You wewe under no obligation to attend them; there were more traditional Masses held over the weekend. The highest attended Masses were the 10:00am and 12:00pm Sunday services; the most traditional services. This didn’t insult us at all.

I am quite sure the hootenany/koombaya Masses celebrated were not the only services held back when you were supposedly supoposed to be attending years ago. Or there was another church you could have found with a more traditional service. It falls upon YOU that you did not attend services because you held your nose up at a “type” of service. These were not the ONLY type of service being held EVERYWHERE.

I in no way intimated that I was trying to bring the practice back - I was merely sharing my memories for anyone who had questions because there were some pretty strong MISCONCEPTIONS out there (quite obviously), and if the Vatican is ‘pulling us in the opposite direction, finally’, I don’t necessarily think that is a good thing.

The Church in general needs to take steps FORWARD, not backward - re: stance on sexual abuse, and reassigment of priests instead of reporting them; allowing gay priests yet not female priests; and I could go on and on, but that is NOT this thread. you’ve just gotten under my skin is all.

The absolute derision of your comment shows what little respect you have for those who choose to worship in any other way than the one YOU have deemed appropriate. I hope God opens your heart and allows you to see that the Worship of God at Mass is a beautiful thing, and not something to be judged - by you, or anyone. As long as the worship is carried out properly, with due respect, and with love - for one another and for Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit, who are YOU to judge the manner in which those things are carried out?

I pray your heart is opened, your mind is expanded, and your love is overflowing for your fellow worshippers who all want the same thing - to love God, and follow His word in this world.

Blessings;

mmbernadette
 
And in contrast it was what enabled me to find Christ through the catholic church. flag waving traditionalism is a right turn off for me…horses for courses as the saying goes. If God is for Us was a favorite of mine too.
Thank you!! I Love you!!!😃

Blessings,

mmbernadette
 
Hi there,
My original parish church had a folk mass in the evening that was very popular. They also had a more traditional mass in the morning, and a children’s mass before the traditional one.
There were times, as a youth, that yes, I enjoyed the folk mass…but…

I don’t like it. That isn’t to say that it is “evil” or “wrong”, but I personally am of the opinion that Mass should be Mass. I don’t like the idea that there are “children’s masses”, “youth masses”, “folk masses”, etc…I think there should be one Mass, and that’s it. The Mass is Mass, and shouldn’t be watered down or changed to suit what people like. Sure, when we start to change the music and the rhythm of the Mass (while keeping its’ Form, of course), we appeal to more people…but is that really the aim of Catholicism? The Catholic Church isn’t about appealing to people or winning a popularity contest to see if we can “pack the pews”. It isn’t about making people feel as comfortable as possible. It’s about truth and the splendor of God. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be welcoming, but I think that the culture of felt banners, guitars, and liturgical reform in terms of folk dancing and singing and tappin’ our toes at Mass took things too far.

I am, admittedly, a Traditionalist in many ways. I am a JP-era Catholic (born the year he became Pope, in fact!) and never got to experience the Latin Mass (we only recently have had Latin Masses offered in our city by parishes that are not in schism). I always felt there was something missing at the really libreal Masses. There were lovely people there, very Godly and good Catholic people, but it just seemed “off”. The sense of reverence didn’t appear to be there. I also don’t think, as I mentioned before, that Mass should be tailored for the participants- we should be tailoring OURSELVES for the Mass!

So, nothing against your family or your folk group. I am just a Catholic that prefers stained glass, statues, and silence to guitars and clapping and churches that look far too modern. Maybe I’m just old fashioned, but I think that we really lost something in the modern era and many Catholics like myself are struggling to bring it back.
God Bless!
 
We, personally, never ever sang “Kumbaya”, or did a “hootenany” which I think is more like a country dance with cowboy boots and a potluck after with Moonshine. Not very Church-y.

No, we did a full Mass, in a Cathedral, with a priest from the rectory of the Cathedral, it was sanctifed and given the go-ahead and encouraged by the Cathedral AND the BISHOP. I very much doubt Bishop Stanislaw Breshevsky ( a classmate of Pope John Paul II) woul have allowed a “hootenany” or anything else “masquerading as a Mass”, and I deeply take offense to your classification of what we were doing as anything less than celebrating the Sacred Sacrement. The Bishop himself presided over some of our Masses and told us he enjoyed them greatly; he also enjoyed the fact that it helped bring younger members of the congregation into greater interaction within the Mass.

He told me this personally as I rode my bike in his driveway in his backyard and gave me souveniers Blessed from Pope John Paul II I have till this day, even though i am a lapsed Catholic. I still pray - to this day - in my own way - for the Bishop, and Pope John Paul II.

I get that you may not like the kind of Masses we celebrated; they may not have been your cup of tea, shall we say. You wewe under no obligation to attend them; there were more traditional Masses held over the weekend. The highest attended Masses were the 10:00am and 12:00pm Sunday services; the most traditional services. This didn’t insult us at all.

I am quite sure the hootenany/koombaya Masses celebrated were not the only services held back when you were supposedly supoposed to be attending years ago. Or there was another church you could have found with a more traditional service. It falls upon YOU that you did not attend services because you held your nose up at a “type” of service. These were not the ONLY type of service being held EVERYWHERE.

I in no way intimated that I was trying to bring the practice back - I was merely sharing my memories for anyone who had questions because there were some pretty strong MISCONCEPTIONS out there (quite obviously), and if the Vatican is ‘pulling us in the opposite direction, finally’, I don’t necessarily think that is a good thing.

The Church in general needs to take steps FORWARD, not backward - re: stance on sexual abuse, and reassigment of priests instead of reporting them; allowing gay priests yet not female priests; and I could go on and on, but that is NOT this thread. you’ve just gotten under my skin is all.

The absolute derision of your comment shows what little respect you have for those who choose to worship in any other way than the one YOU have deemed appropriate. I hope God opens your heart and allows you to see that the Worship of God at Mass is a beautiful thing, and not something to be judged - by you, or anyone. As long as the worship is carried out properly, with due respect, and with love - for one another and for Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit, who are YOU to judge the manner in which those things are carried out?

I pray your heart is opened, your mind is expanded, and your love is overflowing for your fellow worshippers who all want the same thing - to love God, and follow His word in this world.

Blessings;

mmbernadette
And you obviously were not exposed to the nonsense of the sixties and seventies; guitars bongo drums, snare drums, self -intinction, folk songs. Your description was of a folk music Mass and that is exactly what brought back some very ugly memories regardless of who authorized the Mass. As for opening my mind and heart I assure you it won’t be through a revival of those Masses!
 
We did the kumbaya song when I was a teenager in the late 60’s and early 70’s. I even remember singing John Denver’s “Sunshine on My Shoulders” as a post-Communion meditation hymn. :eek:

At the time, I did enjoy the folk masses and the upbeat songs, but looking back, something was lost in giving up the traditional beauty of the old hymns.
 
The Masses themselves followed the regular Mass as it would be set out in the missals, just instead of a traditional “Kyrie”, we might do an updated version, or “Lord, I am not worthy…” I don’t ever remember singing Simon and Garfunkel (and I knew their music well in my house), or Bob Dylan (not so well known in my house). Perhaps a “Godspell” song - “Let The Sun Shine In” but never often enough. All our songs were actual re-interpretations of established spiritual songs.
(emphasis added)

Well, there’s your problem in spades: Let the Sunshine In was from Hair which had such other “established spiritual songs” as Age of Aquarius, Black Boys/White Boys, Sodomy, Hashish, Hare Krishna, etc.

Godspell, it ain’t…
 
There was a fascinating thread I read on these boards I found while looking up some of the music I sang while doing Folk Masses when young. Some of the comments there were interesting, some were - er, insulting, some were laughable, and some had definite valid questions, and I thought as someone who was actively involved in Folk Masses for over five years - as a family - I would try to educate with what experiences I had collected.
And yet you’re “lapsed” - didn’t do much good to keep you in the faith apparently
We (my father on guitar, my mother on wooden recorder, me as second soprano sang at a local Folk Mass at the Cathedral at 4:15pm every Saturday. The rest of the choir was rounded out by other young folks from the congregation, & folks from other congregations who wanted to be part of the Folk Mass experience. …
Ok you were a choir
We sang contemporary (for that time) spiritual music from the likes of The St. Louis Jesuits, …
see the post above - you also sang songs from “Hair.” I’ve never liked any of that SLJ, etc., stuff, but people do have different tastes.
The premise of the Mass itself was the same… Many, many people came to know our repetoire and sang along with us.
Some people do prefer that music - doesn’t make it terribly appropriate.
The Masses themselves followed the regular Mass as it would be set out in the missals, just instead of a traditional “Kyrie”, we might do an updated version, or “Lord, I am not worthy…” I don’t ever remember singing Simon and Garfunkel (and I knew their music well in my house), or Bob Dylan (not so well known in my house).
How about Crosby Still Nash and Young? “You who are on the road…” was a real barn burner at Mass.
Perhaps a “Godspell” song - “Let The Sun Shine In” but never often enough. All our songs were actual re-interpretations of established spiritual songs.
see post above re Hair.
I remember Psalm Sunday, where you have to do the reading of the whole story, with all the parts - my Dad was one of the parts. We tried to give the Masses - while following doctrine - more, not entertainment, but engagement value for the attendants.
It never occurred to you or him, that it was tasteless, presumptuous or not wanted?
One of my favorite songs in my head has been on repeat all day: “If God is for us, then who can be against, if the Spirit of God has set us free?”
OK
Obviously, there was a real altar. A real consecrated altar; the same one they used for every other Mass at the Cathedral.
I’ve seen many a coffee table used…
None of the priests rode Harleys; one did own a saiboat for his personal use on vacation time - does that count as “hippie-time”? 👍
I’ve known more than my share of “cool” priests including one now who is 60+ and just sooo hip. Gack!
We received thanks each week from Mass-attendees; not that that was our reason for doing the Masses. They thanked us for the beautiful music, for making the service more engaging, for helping them find a way to not feel guilty about skipping Mass any more because now they had a viable alternative that they could enjoy, for making Mass “fun”, and making them feel like they were participating and not just “watching” with an empty feeling, and most of them walking out sometimes right after the Homily or after Communion.
That’s nice - did they, like you, also lapse?
We were, by no means, hippies. We were poor, but I didn’t know that back then. My dad taught at a Seminary. My Mom taught religion to the kids who went to the secular high school but elected for a religious class once a week, and also worked for a local Religious College as their Director of Grants. My sister and I attended the local Catholic grade school where I got treated like religious royalty (kinda ruins your social life, but oh well - when you know all the nuns outside the school setting, and all the priests because of your Dad or your work with the Church or because they’ve all been to dinner-parties at your house, you kinda give up on being known as “normal”. I didn’t know how to talk to kids my own age. I always did the readings at the Masses at school, or sang, or whatever, was picked for special projects…normal was out of the question.) until I went to 7th grade at the local high school. Even there, I was known as “the holy kid”, like my dad was some kind of minister or something. We lived across the street from the Bishop, a lovely Polish gentleman who studied with Pope John II but never impinged upon their previous friendship. I learned to ride my bike in the Biship’s driveway with my dad - the Bishop used that in many of his homilies.
Good for you - yet you lapsed…
I also knew all the latin music from the masses and choral pieces. I knew a traditional High Mass from the more casual Saturday Masses. I knew the entire latin Mass, scarf on the head, included, Fish on Friday. During lent, we ate a meager meal once a week and put money in the Unicef box in the middle of the table.
who didn’t then?
My parents had such success with the Folk Mass, they started a Children’s Mass on Sundays, where parents could bring their children (under 5) and have a Mass of their own, albeit likely in a non-traditional sense. Readings might come from Dr. Seuss, but the lessons about caring for the least of my brothers were not lost on the kids. These became very successful too and were copied all over the diocese.
And, how many of those kids “lapsed?”
I’d be happy to answer any questions about Folk Masses that anyone has, if i know anything about the answer. I just thought some of my rememberances might clear up some misconceptions.
I guess my question is why continue something that seems to not even have worked for you?
 
A very interesting thread: I note that those more traditional here seem to be defending traditional hymns, stained glass and statues where as it seems what the folk mass was proposing was an opening up of the Gospel to make it accessible…now, what is important outward form or the life of the spirit? In my mind the more traditionalist comments here display a lack of Christian charity towards another in the interest of personal taste. The comment about being just a mass seems silly to me - of course there is only one mass which can have different cultural settings: that one mass is not a ‘traditional mass’ it is the uniting of ourselves to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross in thanksgiving…Glad I never actually converted to catholicism when I read comments like some of these. It is not the form of the Mass that converts and convicts and sanctifies but the holy spirit.
 
A very interesting thread: I note that those more traditional here seem to be defending traditional hymns, stained glass and statues where as it seems what the folk mass was proposing was an opening up of the Gospel to make it accessible
It might seem that way, but, of course, it’s not. The Folk Mass - perhaps with the best intentions and we know where that leads - maybe was an attempt to make the Gospel more accessible, but it in fact facilitated the perversion of the Gospel into an I’m OK/You’re OK simulacrum of worship and Christianity. The mass apostasy, which I presume includes “lapsed Catholics,” in the wake of the liturgical experiments to “open the Gospel” belies the failure of that attempt at accessibility. The traditionalists defend tradition because it works; because it actually opens the Gospel whereas the Folk Mass and similar experiments were dismal failures that degraded the Gospel so that rejection and apostasy increase.
…now, what is important outward form or the life of the spirit? In my mind the more traditionalist comments here display a lack of Christian charity towards another in the interest of personal taste.
Christian charity has little or nothing to do with politesse, being nice or getting along. True, tastes differ, but for anyone who lived through the 50s-today the clear collapse of the faith in the wake of these experiments which certainly contributed to the loss of faith is unmistakable. Even the OP has lapsed - despite extolling the wonders of the Folk Mass.
The comment about being just a mass seems silly to me - of course there is only one mass which can have different cultural settings: that one mass is not a ‘traditional mass’ it is the uniting of ourselves to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross in thanksgiving…
Actually, there is only one sacrifice, but Mass is said often. Different cultural settings are great - if we were talking about different cultures, but, sadly, we are not. We are talking about essentially one culture: western society. The Folk Mass and other experiments were rather bald and bold attempts to change that culture in concert with the upheaval of that time. (Not to mention the gratuitous attempts to impose other cultures for God knows what reasons)
Glad I never actually converted to catholicism when I read comments like some of these. It is not the form of the Mass that converts and convicts and sanctifies but the holy spirit.
QED This last statement actually refutes the claims you try to make above. It highlights that having bought into the pablum of the Folk Mass crowd what matters is some amorphous syncretic theology of an idiosyncratic form. You’re glad you didn’t convert - not because the Truth is or isn’t there - but because you find some members, in your analysis, shallow. My my.
 
(emphasis added)

Well, there’s your problem in spades: Let the Sunshine In was from Hair which had such other “established spiritual songs” as Age of Aquarius, Black Boys/White Boys, Sodomy, Hashish, Hare Krishna, etc.

Godspell, it ain’t…
I stand corrected - it was a song from Godspell we sang < I cannot remember the name at this time. You are right. We would not have sung a song from “Hair”.

Blessings,

mmbernadette 🙂
 
And yet you’re “lapsed” - didn’t do much good to keep you in the faith apparently

Ok you were a choir

see the post above - you also sang songs from “Hair.” I’ve never liked any of that SLJ, etc., stuff, but people do have different tastes.

Some people do prefer that music - doesn’t make it terribly appropriate.

How about Crosby Still Nash and Young? “You who are on the road…” was a real barn burner at Mass. see post above re Hair.It never occurred to you or him, that it was tasteless, presumptuous or not wanted?

OK

I’ve seen many a coffee table used… I’ve known more than my share of “cool” priests including one now who is 60+ and just sooo hip. Gack!

That’s nice - did they, like you, also lapse?

Good for you - yet you lapsed…

who didn’t then?

And, how many of those kids “lapsed?”

I guess my question is why continue something that seems to not even have worked for you?
You sanctimonious, self-righteous, overbearing, superior, consescending sad representation of your faith.:eek:

I am “LAPSED” for a series of** very personal reasons which I shall not go into here**, but if you really are THAT curious and narccissistic, you can PM me and I’d be GLAD to share the whole ugly story with you.

The Folk Group, on the other hand, probabaly kept me in the fold for longer than I would have been had it not been for that reassuring outlet.

I do have a very deep spirtituality to this day, based upon the tenets of many religions, most of which share core beliefs with all religions, including Catholicism. I practice my brand of spirituality every day, but I don’t think i would ever step into a Roman Catholic Church ever again unless I was celebrating a friend’s wedding, a baptism, or a funeral. I would never again accept the Holy Host because my spirituality doesn’t require that I need that step to be closer to my Higher Power.

There are many things I DO miss about practicing Catholicism - surprisingly, participating in Mass, occasionally. The ceremony, the rote responses, celebrating with many. I still believe Catholicism has many beautiful aspects to it, and i was forturnate enough to be raised by Priests and Nuns who were beautuful, knowledgeable people who never talked down to me. My father taught at a Seminary, so I was surround by clergy constantly. Educated clergy. People I respect to this day.

The Folk Mass was the best part of being a practicing Catholic for me; it allowed me to feel like I was making a difference in peoples’ lives and helping their faith and in bringing them closer to God. Sometimes when i hit a note that reverberated thorugh the marble ceilings of the Cathedral, I swear I thought God and Christ came down to listen - perhaps a child’s fancy, but it strengthened MY faith each time we sang for Mass.

You’re an arrogant word I can’t use, and one of the reasons I DID leave the church and GLAD I left the church, and have just reminded me ever so elegantly that it wasn’t so much Catholicism I had a problem with, it was the practitioners who thought themselves so much better than anyone else; their piety outstripped anyone elses.

Thank you for reminding me of ONE of the reasons why i left and became a LAPSED Catholic. The pettiness and ugliness that was oh-so-prevalent that had nothing to do with the Music.

I wish Blessings upon you,

mmbernadette
 
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