Comments on an older closed thread - Folk Masses

[zab]

I’d be sad to be one of those youngsters.

How do you know that? It is easy for many of us to look back now and complain. Even I, who have always liked the traditional hymns have to admit that in the beginning, the more traditional “Guitar Masses” were good and initially seemed to draw more youth participation. Now, I’m not talking about those extreme cases like we’ve seen on YouTube (actually those were more recent times). But “guitar Masses” and music just did not stand the test of time like our traditional hymns do. We grew tired of it and missed the sacredness of our traditional hymns. I don’t buy the excuse by some that folk music was a large part of the reason that they left the Church.

 

[mmbernadette]

Even the OP has lapsed - despite extolling the wonders of the Folk Mass.

You’re glad you didn’t convert - not because the Truth is or isn’t there - but because you find some members, in your analysis, shallow. My my.

May I just say - THE OP LAPSED DESPITE FOLK MASSES, and was merely commenting here to clear up some misconceptions, which you seem determined to continue on some personal vendetta.

And I am sure the other poster is glad he/she didn’t convert **BECAUSE **of shallow members JUST. LIKE. YOU. Yes. Yes.

 

[mmbernadette]

This thread has certainly gotten out of hand, and I have definitely played my part in that, and I want to apologize to the others who wanted to have a discourse on the TOPIC at hand.

I will do my best to stick to the reason I came here and try to ignore the trolling and baiting that takes away from the rest of the civil discourse.

I apologize for my part in the rest if you saw any part of that.

Blessings to all,

mmbernadette

 

[Alphonsus_John]

I grew up in the 80s guitar Mass tradition and after experiencing a church that does polyphony and chant I feel robbed. Not that I believe all the folk songs were awful, some are actually pretty good, but in a church that has 2000 years of music tradition to stick with music from the 60s and 70s every Mass for years is, I believe, dishonoring a lot of musical tradition.

Music, I believe has a cultural aspect. I lived in Africa in 2010 and Malagasy folk hymns made up much of the church music where I lived (in the Comoros). It was amazing how their folk songs had elements of polyphony to them and to my limited musical talent seemed quite beautiful.

 

[5Loaves]

I’d be happy to answer any questions about Folk Masses that anyone has, if i know anything about the answer. I just thought some of my rememberances might clear up some misconceptions.

Blessings;

mmbernadette

mmbernadette:
If you haven’t already listened to the podcasts “Keep the Fire Burning” by Ken Canedo which go with his book Keep the Fire Burning: The Folk Mass Revolution I’m sure you’d find them interesting. I found both the excellent podcasts and the book a real help for me in understanding the context in which the music of these early “Folk Masses” grew up, a time I was myself very much involved with Folk music, tho not Folk Masses. He clarifies that most of contemporary religious music written by the Catholic singer-songwriters of that period was never intended for use in Mass, but rather was written for use in CCD classes, retreats etc. where it was immensely popular. The period of history he covers ends before music from the St. Lewis Jesuits and others writing contemporary music intended for use in the Mass became involved.

I’ve listened to the podcasts a number of times since he first put them up. They’re an important contribution to understanding the history of the Latin Church in America.

 

[mmbernadette]

mmbernadette:
If you haven’t already listened to the podcasts “Keep the Fire Burning” by Ken Canedo which go with his book Keep the Fire Burning: The Folk Mass Revolution I’m sure you’d find them interesting. I found both the excellent podcasts and the book a real help for me in understanding the context in which the music of these early “Folk Masses” grew up, a time I was myself very much involved with Folk music, tho not Folk Masses. He clarifies that most of contemporary religious music written by the Catholic singer-songwriters of that period was never intended for use in Mass, but rather was written for use in CCD classes, retreats etc. where it was immensely popular. The period of history he covers ends before music from the St. Lewis Jesuits and others writing contemporary music intended for use in the Mass became involved.

I’ve listened to the podcasts a number of times since he first put them up. They’re an important contribution to understanding the history of the Latin Church in America.

That’s fascinating and sounds very enlightening since my mom was involved with CCD, but I never heard if music being used as a teaching tool - it may have been before her time.
I’m always interested in the histories of the church, so I’ll likely check it out - thanks so much for the reccomendation.

Blessings

mmbernadette

 

[iloveangels]

That’s fascinating and sounds very enlightening since my mom was involved with CCD, but I never heard if music being used as a teaching tool - it may have been before her time.
I’m always interested in the histories of the church, so I’ll likely check it out - thanks so much for the reccomendation.

Blessings

mmbernadette

About the music, I’m not really very sure it makes much difference what genre is used because Catholic music is almost uniformly horrible. It’s mind-rebooting, soul-shattering bone-racking, stuff. I think all the people who had any sense of pitch must have left at the Reformation.

I simply cannot imagine what a Catholic choir singing a John Denver song might have sounded like. Wow. Just Wow. I’m certainly glad I missed that!!

 

[mmbernadette]

I simply cannot imagine what a Catholic choir singing a John Denver song might have sounded like. Wow. Just Wow. I’m certainly glad I missed that!!

Poor John Denver still gets a bad rap decades after his death. I know that song was pretty much universally panned, and we never sang it, but my mom loved his music, and used to sing it with the headphones on cause she loved it. And I have very fond memories of “Sunshine On my Shoulders” because actually, it was a quite lovely song, if you got off the bandwagon.

I know it picked my Mom up after a bad day. Can’t we get off the “hate” of poor John Dever now and appreciate what he did do?

With respect for your abhorrence to hearing it in a choral piece, of course.

Blessings,

mmbernadette

 

[FLGreg]

As a kid growing up in the 60’s, the Saturday Vigil Mass was a “Folk Mass”. I loved it being a fan of the folk music genre having listened to Peter, Paul & Mary, Bob Dylan, Tom and Harry Chapin. However, my very conservative, ex-Navy father DID call it “The Five O’Clock ‘Hippie’ Mass”.

Even as a traditional Catholic today, I would like to find a Folk Mass somewhere to attend to remind me of my youth. I see no problem mixing it up, so to speak – OF, EF/Latin and a little more “folksy”.

BTW, I am also a fan of John Denver to this day.

 

[mmbernadette]

As a kid growing up in the 60’s, the Saturday Vigil Mass was a “Folk Mass”. I loved it being a fan of the folk music genre having listened to Peter, Paul & Mary, Bob Dylan, Tom and Harry Chapin. However, my very conservative, ex-Navy father DID call it “The Five O’Clock ‘Hippie’ Mass”.

Even as a traditional Catholic today, I would like to find a Folk Mass somewhere to attend to remind me of my youth. I see no problem mixing it up, so to speak – OF, EF/Latin and a little more “folksy”.

BTW, I am also a fan of John Denver to this day.

FLGreg - welcome to the discussion, and your musical tastes run very similar to my own when I was young. If i still practiced, I myself would look for a Folk Mass similar to the kind I attended.

And yes, round-rims and all, John Denver, aside from “Oh God” was a master.

Blessings,

mmbernadette:thumbsup:

 

[mmbernadette]

Dang, now I have that song in my head.

Blessings to all,

mmbernadette

 

[iloveangels]

Poor John Denver still gets a bad rap decades after his death. I know that song was pretty much universally panned, and we never sang it, but my mom loved his music, and used to sing it with the headphones on cause she loved it. And I have very fond memories of “Sunshine On my Shoulders” because actually, it was a quite lovely song, if you got off the bandwagon.

I know it picked my Mom up after a bad day. Can’t we get off the “hate” of poor John Dever now and appreciate what he did do?

With respect for your abhorrence to hearing it in a choral piece, of course.

Blessings,

mmbernadette

Don’t get me wrong. I like John Denver okay, especially the song about Grandma’s Feather Bed. We still have several of his CDs in the house and we occasionally play them. I just can’t imagine a Catholic rendition of it. John Denver sounds fine. Catholic music stinks.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

By now, the Folk music is it’s own TYPE of classical music in its own right, I feel, and has earned its place in our history just as much as many other things. Just because it hasn’t existed for a hundred years, doesn’t mean it isn’t classical.

Folk music, the original kind -written by the ‘folk’ - is definately it’s own style of music and considered a historic treasure in most countries. Many of the examples you gave (Silent Night) are definately folk music, as are many other hymns which are actually revised words set to folk tunes, or, the horror!, drinking songs!

The real Von Trapp family started a music camp in Vermont that still exists, teaching folk music including singing in parts and playing the recorder. They also have their own chapel and had a priest (who travelled with them from Austria) say daily Mass there. He lived on the property.

I very briefly sang with a folk group at Masses at one of the most conservative churchs in Virginia. We were not a very talented group, so complaints could be made on that score, but the pastor and the bishop never complained about our faith or the theology of the songs we sang. The leader of the group is now a Franciscan, and the novice director for his order is Assisi.

Your family sounds very talented and they gave quite a bit for the church. I hope you find your way home again. I’ll be praying for you.

 

[iloveangels]

Folk music, the original kind -written by the ‘folk’ - is definately it’s own style of music and considered a historic treasure in most countries. Many of the examples you gave (Silent Night) are definately folk music, as are many other hymns which are actually revised words set to folk tunes, or, the horror!, drinking songs!

The real Von Trapp family started a music camp in Vermont that still exists, teaching folk music including singing in parts and playing the recorder. They also have their own chapel and had a priest (who travelled with them from Austria) say daily Mass there. He lived on the property.

I very briefly sang with a folk group at Masses at one of the most conservative churchs in Virginia. We were not a very talented group, so complaints could be made on that score, but the pastor and the bishop never complained about our faith or the theology of the songs we sang. The leader of the group is now a Franciscan, and the novice director for his order is Assisi.

Your family sounds very talented and they gave quite a bit for the church. I hope you find your way home again. I’ll be praying for you.

No, folk music is blue-grass or mountain music or southern church music or spirituals. Folk music isn’t what you hear in a Catholic church. I have no idea what that is except bad.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

The Church in general needs to take steps FORWARD, not backward - re: stance on sexual abuse, and reassigment of priests instead of reporting them; allowing gay priests yet not female priests; and I could go on and on, but that is NOT this thread. you’ve just gotten under my skin is all.

mmbernadette

If you want the Church to move “forward,” follow Pope Benedict XVI, not the “Spirit of Vatican II.”

 

[Mrs_Sally]

No, folk music is blue-grass or mountain music or southern church music or spirituals. Folk music isn’t what you hear in a Catholic church. I have no idea what that is except bad.

Those are example of American (US) folk music.Every country has it’s own and many tunes that we think of as acceptable for church - even Catholic church - were originally written as ordinary folks tunes.

If a parish actually only used chant, and never sang a hymn, then they’d be free of folk music. But the reality is that even if you never hear bluegrass in church, you may have a folk tune or two lurking in your hymnal.

 

[Regi]

Poor John Denver still gets a bad rap decades after his death. I know that song was pretty much universally panned, and we never sang it, but my mom loved his music, and used to sing it with the headphones on cause she loved it. And I have very fond memories of “Sunshine On my Shoulders” because actually, it was a quite lovely song, if you got off the bandwagon.

I know it picked my Mom up after a bad day. Can’t we get off the “hate” of poor John Dever now and appreciate what he did do?

With respect for your abhorrence to hearing it in a choral piece, of course.

Blessings,

mmbernadette

When I posted about singing John Denver’s “Sunshine on my Shoulder” as a Communion meditation, I did not mean to impy anything against John.

In fact, I LOVE John Denver and felt like I had lost a close friend when he died. I just do not think this song, or any of his songs, belong with Catholic worship.

I did not get the impression anyone else was saying anything with ‘hate’ towards Denver - maybe you took it the wrong way when you read it.

That is all.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

To me it seems sad that somebody who loved the Mass would wind up not practicing the faith anymore. . .I used to sing in a folk group back in the 1970s in college and while I would like to leave most of the 70s IN the 70s (oh please Lord, take paisley and leopard prints away from us for a couple of generations) there are certainly places for some of the music. So I guess I’m just sad that somebody who gave so much at one point. . .isn’t any more. And I’m sure it’s not that the music went away (because the good Lord knows it hasn’t, at least not at my current parish where if I ignore my mirror showing me the gray hair, and just listen to what is being sung, I absolutely COULD be back in the 1970s! )

 

[FLGreg]

FLGreg - welcome to the discussion, and your musical tastes run very similar to my own when I was young. If i still practiced, I myself would look for a Folk Mass similar to the kind I attended.

And yes, round-rims and all, John Denver, aside from “Oh God” was a master.

Blessings,

mmbernadette:thumbsup:

Thank you for your kind comments. Thanks to this thread I am, again, listening to JD’s Greatest Hits album.

As a SCUBA diver, my favorite song is “Calypso” being a huge fan of the Earth and Jacques-Yves Cousteau.

“To live on the Earth, we have to learn by the sea!”

I just have to ask you: If you are now a non-practicing Catholic why you would be coming here? Perhaps all is NOT lost?

Keep the Faith.

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[5Loaves]

Many of the examples you gave (Silent Night) are definately folk music, as are many other hymns which are actually revised words set to folk tunes, or, the horror!, drinking songs!

A priest told me this a couple of years ago. You can really hear it in this Ukrainian Nativity carol “Christ Our Sun” which we sing during our procession on Theophany. This Monastery video of the same carol shows it even more clearly to me.