Commercials all over the place!

[dianaiad]

Secretary of State immediately before WW 3? Major mistake.

Marching right alongside BY is more likely. Maybe someday she will become more moderate and politically sensitive. I’m praying.

I’m a libertarian.

Which means, of course, that ‘moderate’ is probably not in my gene pool. As for marching right beside BY…probably not, but I MIGHT well have been one of the women who went to Philadelphia.

As fun as this has been to joke about my…less than pacifistic…tendencies, this thread began as a down-the-nose swipe at the LDS commercials depicting Mormons as, you know, people. Using various forms of the media as proselyting tools, as if doing so is something distasteful.

…when the real issue here isn’t the commercials. Catholics do commercials, and they do very good ones. The real issue seems to be one of caste. That is…it’s permissible for Catholics to indulge in such things. After all, Catholicism is the ‘true’ church. It is not OK for anybody else to use these methods; rather the way the old sumptuary laws worked, where only kings and queens could wear purple, cloth of gold or sable, and only nobles could wear velvet, satin, silks or enameled jewelry, because of course wearing such items was considered wasteful, superfluous and downright sinful.

Unless you were from the right class. Then it was perfectly OK.

So what we had was (for instance, Queen Elizabeth, but sumptuary laws began with Italy and spread over Europe; Elizabeth was simply the most detailed about it) someone who, while wearing every one of the prohibited items upon her own back, spent a very long time animadverting about how horrible those lesser persons were for daring to wear sable, cloth of gold, velvet, silk, satin…

all these wasteful and downright sinful items of clothing.

So recent threads here have been about how Mormons are so (said with some particularly nose wrinkling disgust, as if one had to have sanitizer for the keyboard after touching the keys that were used to express opinions) …rude/awful/disgusting/uncouth/whatever…for actually having commercials/missions/pick something, when the critics generally represent a faith that does precisely the same thing for itself.

In case you are wondering, this curmudgeon has had quite enough of it.

We have had something called “Mormon Ads” for over forty years. We use commercials to let others know who we are (that’s called ‘name recognition,’ folks). We have a LOT of ads that aim to help with every day family life and are just plain good advice (I’m thinking about a specific radio ad that equates communicating with your children as they grow up with putting coins in a bank; if you talk to them when they are young, they will talk to YOU when they are teenagers and need advice…returning your ‘investment’ with interest.) the only reference to the Mormons is the last line…'brought to you by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Mormons." We have a LOT of those out, about family things. There is quite a selection of these here:

Enjoy them.

Oh, just in case you are wondering whether I have a problem with Catholic commercials when they don’t quite march with the same beliefs I do, here’s one (you can access the rest of this group here, too) that is pretty funny…

I’d call seminarians fairly ‘official,’ Catholicism wise, wouldn’t you?

littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2010/05/funny-nfp-vs-contraception-commercials.html

 

[LongJourney]

Those recent commercials, although I have not seen them, seem to be more of a “[although our beliefs seem to come from outer space,] we are ordinary human beings, just like you.” PR attempt. Not an attempt to proselytize, but an attempt to reduce prejudice. As such, probably more justified than other religiously-based ads.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Those recent commercials, although I have not seen them, seem to be more of a “[although our beliefs seem to come from outer space,] we are ordinary human beings, just like you.” .

And yet they want to be different. They need to be honest - “I’m Lucy and I’m a single mom and I’m a surfer, and I’m special because I have the fullness of the Gospel! I shine all day and night! I shine and you don’t! And my future husband, who I’m desperately looking for so I can fit in and be complete, also shines, wherever he is.”

 

[WetCatechumen]

I think we should be more charitable to the Mormons. Yes, it is arbitrarily a sin for them to believe their religion and to attempt to spread it. However, we also must acknowledge that they believe their religion is right and are only trying to “enlighten” more people as to the fullness of the Gospel and make it clear that their religion is mainstream.

There’s nothing wrong with them using good PR tactics or renting air-time to try to make people think of their religion better. Judging from all the PR fiascos we Catholics have suffered from, maybe we should take a page out of their book.

Your religion is still wrong, though. But it’s okay; you think the same about us.

 

[dianaiad]

I think we should be more charitable to the Mormons. Yes, it is arbitrarily a sin for them to believe their religion and to attempt to spread it.

Now THAT is an interesting viewpoint. It is a sin to believe in one’s own religion?

I would really like to know how, given the definition of ‘sin’ that Catholics and Mormons actually share, that such a thing is a sin.

However, we also must acknowledge that they believe their religion is right and are only trying to “enlighten” more people as to the fullness of the Gospel and make it clear that their religion is mainstream.

Oh, I don’t think that the aim is to make y’all believe that we are ‘mainstream.’ I sure don’t want to be thought of as ‘mainstream,’ given that I think that ‘mainstream’ and ‘correct’ are not synonyms. I think that the aim is to show that we are just…people, and have something good to offer.

There’s nothing wrong with them using good PR tactics or renting air-time to try to make people think of their religion better. Judging from all the PR fiascos we Catholics have suffered from, maybe we should take a page out of their book.

Your religion is still wrong, though. But it’s okay; you think the same about us.

Yep…though not completely.

 

[WetCatechumen]

Now THAT is an interesting viewpoint. It is a sin to believe in one’s own religion?

I would really like to know how, given the definition of ‘sin’ that Catholics and Mormons actually share, that such a thing is a sin.

Oh, I don’t think that the aim is to make y’all believe that we are ‘mainstream.’ I sure don’t want to be thought of as ‘mainstream,’ given that I think that ‘mainstream’ and ‘correct’ are not synonyms. I think that the aim is to show that we are just…people, and have something good to offer.

Yep…though not completely.

Unless your religion is Catholicism it’s a mortal sin to believe it’s true. I am unequivocally and unabashedly a believer in a truth of the Orthodox and Catholic Faith which was handed to us by the Apostles. If you deny it, you are in serious trouble. I’m not saying there are not circumstances which seriously mitigate your culpability. There are, usually. However, it’s still a sin.

We may have different definitions of mainstream, sir. I think that trying to show that you are just people and have something good to offer means basically mainstream.

 

[dianaiad]

Unless your religion is Catholicism it’s a mortal sin to believe it’s true. I am unequivocally and unabashedly a believer in a truth of the Orthodox and Catholic Faith which was handed to us by the Apostles. If you deny it, you are in serious trouble. I’m not saying there are not circumstances which seriously mitigate your culpability. There are, usually. However, it’s still a sin.

We may have different definitions of mainstream, sir. I think that trying to show that you are just people and have something good to offer means basically mainstream.

I’m a Ma’am, not a sir…("ma’am’ as “yes, Ma’am,” )

Second, according to the Catholic catechism, “mortal sin” …“requires full knowledge (emphasis theirs) and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of hear do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.” Catholic catechism, IV “The Gravity of Sin: Mortal and Venial Sin” 1859

In other words, it’s not a mortal sin to believe in a faith other than Catholicism unless one TRULY knows that it is Catholicism that is ‘true…’ in which case one doesn’t ‘really’ believe in that other faith anyway, does one? In order for me, for instance, to be committing a mortal sin here, by being Mormon rather than Catholic, I would have to REALLY believe in Catholicism and only pretend to be LDS.

Trust me.
That’s not the case.

This is one thing, I think, that Catholics and Mormons share…that other Christian religions might not share, and that is the definition of sin (at least at the level Catholics call ‘mortal’) as something one has to be aware of committing at the time. It is a deliberate choice, in full knowledge that one is sinning.

 

[tundramom]

I don’t mind about the commercials really… what caught my eye more was the fact that Mormons ran screaming from the title “Mormon” for a while not so long ago.

Now they are embracing it and introducing themselves as such in the format of a 12 step meeting it seems rather odd.

That, and they’re always in twos, much like the missionaries.

And they’re pretty cheesy.

Steph

 

[dianaiad]

I don’t mind about the commercials really… what caught my eye more was the fact that Mormons ran screaming from the title “Mormon” for a while not so long ago.

Now they are embracing it and introducing themselves as such in the format of a 12 step meeting it seems rather odd.

That, and they’re always in twos, much like the missionaries.

And they’re pretty cheesy.

Steph

Steph, I’ve never avoided the title 'Mormon." Nobody I know has. I don’t know of any publication or…anything else…that tries to ‘run away’ from it.

I DO know that we have a bit of a snit when we, the CoJCoLDS are identified with Mormon 'fundamentalists," the groups that practice polygamy or other splinter groups. When that happens, we get a little testy.

You know, rather the way Catholics do when someone accuses them of, oh, praying to icons. They have every right to set people straight: yes, we are Orthodox, but we are CATHOLIC, not RUSSIAN ORTHODOX!

I humbly suggest that your perception of our attempt to distance ourselves from the name is faulty. We would prefer to be known, if you are going to dig into specific doctrine and lifestyles, as “Latter-day saints,” because that identifies us firmly with the largest group. However, nobody I know objects to being called a Mormon. Never have.

I’m a Mormon. Always have been. Always will be. I’m certainly not ashamed of it.

 

[tundramom]

dianiad,
You must not have spent much time on MADB then. A few years ago it was rather contemptuous when anyone called someone Mormon on there.

Refreshing to know that not all are that way.

Steph

 

[dianaiad]

dianiad,
You must not have spent much time on MADB then. A few years ago it was rather contemptuous when anyone called someone Mormon on there.

Refreshing to know that not all are that way.

Steph

I have only recently begun posting over there. I’m still a 'newbie, without form, and void…"

One thing, though, I need to remind you of: the folks over at MADB do not represent the CoJCoLDS officially, nor can what happens there be a proof text of Mormon doctrine or policies…any more than the behavior of many of the Catholics here in this forum can, or should be, used as a proof text of Catholic behavior and policies.

People posting on debate forums are different.

No matter what forum we choose to appear on!

 

[Dale_M]

I don’t mind about the commercials really… what caught my eye more was the fact that Mormons ran screaming from the title “Mormon” for a while not so long ago.

hmmm… I think it depends on the context. As I recall, at least one of the TV commercials in the 1970s ended with the phrase “We are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints… the Mormons.”

So maybe its not preferred, but it is a tolerable shorthand for people who don’t know otherwise. LDS might be better (according to a former girlfriend), but most US residents are not familiar with it.

 

[benidict]

I’m a libertarian.

Which means, of course, that ‘moderate’ is probably not in my gene pool. As for marching right beside BY…probably not, but I MIGHT well have been one of the women who went to Philadelphia.

As fun as this has been to joke about my…less than pacifistic…tendencies, this thread began as a down-the-nose swipe at the LDS commercials depicting Mormons as, you know, people. Using various forms of the media as proselyting tools, as if doing so is something distasteful.

…when the real issue here isn’t the commercials. Catholics do commercials, and they do very good ones. The real issue seems to be one of caste. That is…it’s permissible for Catholics to indulge in such things. After all, Catholicism is the ‘true’ church. It is not OK for anybody else to use these methods; rather the way the old sumptuary laws worked, where only kings and queens could wear purple, cloth of gold or sable, and only nobles could wear velvet, satin, silks or enameled jewelry, because of course wearing such items was considered wasteful, superfluous and downright sinful.

Unless you were from the right class. Then it was perfectly OK.

So what we had was (for instance, Queen Elizabeth, but sumptuary laws began with Italy and spread over Europe; Elizabeth was simply the most detailed about it) someone who, while wearing every one of the prohibited items upon her own back, spent a very long time animadverting about how horrible those lesser persons were for daring to wear sable, cloth of gold, velvet, silk, satin…

all these wasteful and downright sinful items of clothing.

So recent threads here have been about how Mormons are so (said with some particularly nose wrinkling disgust, as if one had to have sanitizer for the keyboard after touching the keys that were used to express opinions) …rude/awful/disgusting/uncouth/whatever…for actually having commercials/missions/pick something, when the critics generally represent a faith that does precisely the same thing for itself.

In case you are wondering, this curmudgeon has had quite enough of it.

We have had something called “Mormon Ads” for over forty years. We use commercials to let others know who we are (that’s called ‘name recognition,’ folks). We have a LOT of ads that aim to help with every day family life and are just plain good advice (I’m thinking about a specific radio ad that equates communicating with your children as they grow up with putting coins in a bank; if you talk to them when they are young, they will talk to YOU when they are teenagers and need advice…returning your ‘investment’ with interest.) the only reference to the Mormons is the last line…'brought to you by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Mormons." We have a LOT of those out, about family things. There is quite a selection of these here:

Enjoy them.

Oh, just in case you are wondering whether I have a problem with Catholic commercials when they don’t quite march with the same beliefs I do, here’s one (you can access the rest of this group here, too) that is pretty funny…

I’d call seminarians fairly ‘official,’ Catholicism wise, wouldn’t you?

littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2010/05/funny-nfp-vs-contraception-commercials.html

a libertarian diana? really?! i knew there was some reason i liked you! conservative libertarian dittos my sister! and im far from passive myself. lol! Peace

 

[benidict]

Unless your religion is Catholicism it’s a mortal sin to believe it’s true. I am unequivocally and unabashedly a believer in a truth of the Orthodox and Catholic Faith which was handed to us by the Apostles. If you deny it, you are in serious trouble. I’m not saying there are not circumstances which seriously mitigate your culpability. There are, usually. However, it’s still a sin.

We may have different definitions of mainstream, sir. I think that trying to show that you are just people and have something good to offer means basically mainstream.

um…my friend. the only time that holds true, is if the person has been sufficiently enlightened by the Holy Spirit, to recognize that the Catholic Church is the One True Church. apparently this has happened to you. i have also had this enlightenment. i could no sooner leave the Church than you could. to do so, would have devistating consequenses to my spiritual future. i do not believe that i could be saved outside the Catholic Church. i am quite certain you feel the same. but if a person has not been enlightened like this, then it is different. the cathachism adresses such as these. are we better than they? not by a long shot. just very very fortunate that we have been given this grace. Peace and prayers for you. pray for me also, thx

 

[dianaiad]

a libertarian diana? really?! i knew there was some reason i liked you! conservative libertarian dittos my sister! and im far from passive myself. lol! Peace

Libertarian…yep, that’s me, at home in the party of the terminally grumpy.

 

[mflorence]

I have only recently begun posting over there. I’m still a 'newbie, without form, and void…"

One thing, though, I need to remind you of: the folks over at MADB do not represent the CoJCoLDS officially, nor can what happens there be a proof text of Mormon doctrine or policies…any more than the behavior of many of the Catholics here in this forum can, or should be, used as a proof text of Catholic behavior and policies.

People posting on debate forums are different.

No matter what forum we choose to appear on!

Good one dianaiad! I see that you have sensed that you are not conversing with mainstream Catholics on this website. I was rather taken aback myself until someone pointed that out to me sometime ago. I was a Catholic all my life and never personally ran into this sort of desperate contempt for other faiths among the ranks of the people I met. On occasion you would meet a priest like that, but usually they would fall apart on their own at some point and get taken out of public view presumably to so some back office duties or something like that. If you want to have a serious discussion on faith, I have found it better to just sit and talk with people. On the other hand, this is good entertainment, but keep it in perspective. BTW - I have met a few Mormons and I found them to be wonderful people just like the Catholics known all my life. I’m certain God loves them all equally, even when they lose sight of the God that is within everyone and act as though God could be that small too. .

 

[tundramom]

Dianiad,
You should post your views over on MADB. A few years back a friend of mine pointed out the difference of “Internet Mormons” and “Chapel Mormons”. He got blasted for it all over the place.

Just bring up the name of a poster named “Shades” and you’ll get an ear…er… eye full.

Steph

 

[mflorence]

From WetCatechumen’s signature: "“If you believe that Christ is God and He is present why don’t you kneel? Why don’t you crawl?” - Cardinal Arinze Reply With Quote.

• Because He blessed me with the ability to walk, and would expect me to do no less with what was freely given with infinite love. I do know that Christ is God and I also know that He is inside of me (and you) and hence there is no reason to depreciate your blessedness by acting like something less than what you are. Aside from that I am rather comfortable walking with Him without a middle man to try to scare me or make me feel unworthy of my Fathers love. You do realize that the first step in a shakedown is to convince people that they are somehow deficient without having what you’re selling, right? No sale, Constantine.

 

[WetCatechumen]

From WetCatechumen’s signature: "“If you believe that Christ is God and He is present why don’t you kneel? Why don’t you crawl?” - Cardinal Arinze Reply With Quote.

• Because He blessed me with the ability to walk, and would expect me to do no less with what was freely given with infinite love. I do know that Christ is God and I also know that He is inside of me (and you) and hence there is no reason to depreciate your blessedness by acting like something less than what you are. Aside from that I am rather comfortable walking with Him without a middle man to try to scare me or make me feel unworthy of my Fathers love. You do realize that the first step in a shakedown is to convince people that they are somehow deficient without having what you’re selling, right? No sale, Constantine.

I’m strangely confused. This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. I’m perfectly happy to discuss it in private message or another thread, but this thread is not the place.

 

[mflorence]

I’m strangely confused. This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. I’m perfectly happy to discuss it in private message or another thread, but this thread is not the place.

Hi WetCatechumen: Sure - send me a note… I think my email is on my profile. If it isn’t let me know and I’ll send it to you. I’m going to be off line for a few days but I’ll be sure to get with you as soon as I can. Look forward to talking to you. Thanks.