Common Ground between Protestants and Catholics?

[30miller]

Greetings and peace be with you 30miller;

If you want to discuss Mathew 19, then it may be better to start another thread.

In the spirit of building bgidges between our faiths;

Eric

Eric,
First you respond with a non-response in your post #107. Then when I call you on it - you tell me not to post here ??? Who do you think you are? Just because you can’t even bring yourself to speak about historic Jesus’ words in Matt 16:19 - don’t tell me where to go. Just another tactic of your type.
This verse goes to the heart of this thread - historic Jesus’ direct issuance of both authority to His Church and His expectations of what that one True Church was to do.
It’s obvious that you don’t want to address historic Jesus’ words because you can’t come up with a way to spin it in line with your Kumbaya Jesus.
Good luck to you as you continue to avoid the words and commands of historic Jesus. Yours is not a position I would take.

 

[b_justb]

Let’s share what we have in common if that’s okay with everyone…beside the obvious of we both believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior. What else is there?

Remember this post? It’s the first one in the thread. It’s just impossible isn’t it? It just cannot be done. There can be no civility, no building of community based upon anything unifying. Is it just a waste of time to think so? http://www.coolsmilies.net/sad/sq_unhappy.gif

 

[30miller]

Remember this post? It’s the first one in the thread. It’s just impossible isn’t it? It just cannot be done. There can be no civility, no building of community based upon anything unifying. Is it just a waste of time to think so? http://www.coolsmilies.net/sad/sq_unhappy.gif

Pay attention. You just re-posted from post #1"…Let’s share what we have in common if that’s okay with everyone…beside the obvious of we both believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior. What else is there?..".
The “obvious” actually is that we all don’t believe in (historic) Jesus - some believe in their own creation or what I call Kumbaya Jesus. They are not one and the same. Clarify your terms and you can see that. It serves no purpose whatsoever to “water down” what “everyone” believes to the lowest common denominator by choosing to ignore the clear words of historic Jesus Himself. Any coming together simply cannot ignore and wipe out Gospel accounts of historic Jesus because there are those who don’t like some of His dictates and His dictates don’t fit their “worldview” and lifestyle.

 

[b_justb]

Pay attention. You just re-posted from post #1"…Let’s share what we have in common if that’s okay with everyone…beside the obvious of we both believe Jesus is our Lord and Savior. What else is there?..".
The “obvious” actually is that we all don’t believe in (historic) Jesus - some believe in their own creation or what I call Kumbaya Jesus. They are not one and the same. Clarify your terms and you can see that. It serves no purpose whatsoever to “water down” what “everyone” believes to the lowest common denominator by choosing to ignore the clear words of historic Jesus Himself. Any coming together simply cannot ignore and wipe out Gospel accounts of historic Jesus because there are those who don’t like some of His dictates and His dictates don’t fit their “worldview” and lifestyle.

I have paid close attention. I was glad to see the original post and this thread. It didn’t take long before I wasn’t glad of it any more.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

ps I said bear traps because you ask a question thats loaded.

If we dont answer to your sastisfication then, you call it non answers and kumbya jesus compared to historic jesus etc etc.

It doesnt sound like a conversation thats going to go anywhere.

btw if you talk with a atheist then Historic and Kumbya become a different meaning.

How about that Historic Jesus to the deal that He didnt exist at all, thats what atheists believe.

Thats something we have in common protestants and catholics we both actually believe He Jesus existed.

Thats maybe whats most important and actual common ground.

 

[30miller]

I have paid close attention. I was glad to see the original post and this thread. It didn’t take long before I wasn’t glad of it any more.

Kumbaya.

 

[b_justb]

Kumbaya.

Thank you http://www.coolsmilies.net/happy/sq_smile1.gif

 

[30miller]

ps I said bear traps because you ask a question thats loaded.

(1) If we dont answer …

(2) How about that Historic Jesus to the deal that He didnt exist at all, thats what atheists believe.

(3) Thats something we have in common protestants and catholics we both actually believe He Jesus existed.

(4) Thats maybe whats most important and actual common ground.

(1) A question that’s “loaded” ??? Asking you to address one verse in the Gospel of Jesus Christ ??? That constitutes a “bear trap” to you ??? Are you loaded?
(2) “Idiots” believe that He (Jesus) didn’t exist at all. Athiests believe that there is no god and therefore that historic Jesus was just another man.
(3) You are correct.
(4) What’s “most important” is to get to know the complete historic Jesus and not to simply ignore parts of Him that don’t fit into our worldview and lifestyle - as some on this thread obviously are trying to do with historic Jesus’ own directive in Matt 16:19. That’s why they cannot even muster a simple direct comment on the verse.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

(1) A question that’s “loaded” ??? Asking you to address one verse in the Gospel of Jesus Christ ??? That constitutes a “bear trap” to you ??? Are you loaded?

(2) “Idiots” believe that He (Jesus) didn’t exist at all. Athiests believe that there is no god and therefore that historic Jesus was just another man.

if you get that far that he was another man, generaly they say didnt exist and yea idiots but blinded eyes dont see.

(3) You are correct.

see we agree, feels good eh?

(4) What’s “most important” is to get to know the complete historic Jesus and not to simply ignore parts of Him that don’t fit into our worldview and lifestyle - as some on this thread obviously are trying to do with historic Jesus’ own directive in Matt 16:19. That’s why they cannot even muster a simple direct comment on the verse.

want to know all of Him of course, I dont have the background to answer your question I guess.

In the interests of unity I will try.

I understand catholics have Peter and the authority etc of the church. Some how that is in the verse you quote.

I was originally speaking of Love one another as the greatest commandment, I didnt know there was 2?

Love one another covers actually everything we have to do, that was my point and I think other peoples points, I believe.

thats a start, I hope.

 

[30miller]

quote=30miller;2660451 A question that’s “loaded” ??? Asking you to address one verse in the Gospel of Jesus Christ ??? That constitutes a “bear trap” to you ??? Are you loaded?

I’m not “after” or “driving at” anything in the sense that I am trying to put words in your mouth. That’s why I want you to state in your own words what the verse says and how that fits into “your” Christianity. They’re Jesus’ words, after all. You can’t simply ignore them and pretend they are not there.
“Catholics” don’t “have” Peter - anyone who follows Christ “has” Peter. Just because someone is not Catholic doesn’t waive the meaning of verse 19. Jesus didn’t say the verse to “Catholics only” and “All other “christians” can ignore it”. He said it to Peter and it’s effect is on ALL His followers.

Matt 22:35-40 “Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments dependeth the whole law, and the prophets.”

Note -** “dependeth” the whole law**! One doesn’t just say the 2 great commandments and act like there is nothing else at all to being a follower of Christ. Christ spent three public years teaching and Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John spent a long time recording his teachings. One doesn’t simply ignore them. One reads and studies them and follows them.
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[Kitty_Chan]

I’m not “after” or “driving at” anything in the sense that I am trying to put words in your mouth. That’s why I want you to state in your own words what the verse says and how that fits into “your” Christianity. They’re Jesus’ words, after all. You can’t simply ignore them and pretend they are not there.
“Catholics” don’t “have” Peter - anyone who follows Christ “has” Peter. Just because someone is not Catholic doesn’t waive the meaning of verse 19. Jesus didn’t say the verse to “Catholics only” and “All other “christians” can ignore it”. He said it to Peter and it’s effect is on ALL His followers.

Well it would be nice not to have the “your” christianity label, but whatever I will deal with it. I wasnt helping the conversation earlier, so I apologise. I want you to know, I dont ignore Jesus words, if I did I certainly wouldnt be posting here or anywhere, Id been sitting home watching tv figuring I had it all figured, and I dont.

Now I get the impression that Catholics have Peter as you say, Its just mentioned so much, one tends to think Peter is separate from them and only with Catholics. Now Im clear thats not the case, thanks.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven

What does this mean in my words?

This is how the whole thing is gonna work. If you make a rule here, its going to follow you there in Heaven. If you allow something here, that too will follow you in Heaven. So start living here like your living there, dont wait.

This is important because like I said before this, about the rock, if you say what you mean, and remember what I said about your yes being yes? Well, when you are solid like that, and you will be, then you are that rock. And a solid rock cannot be moved.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Matt 22:35-40 “Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments dependeth the whole law, and the prophets.”

Note -** “dependeth” the whole law**! One doesn’t just say the 2 great commandments and act like there is nothing else at all to being a follower of Christ. Christ spent three public years teaching and Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John spent a long time recording his teachings. One doesn’t simply ignore them. One reads and studies them and follows them.

yes I stand corrected, 2. I knew them both but was mixed up, cause I was being indignant about the conversation, Im sorry.

Most certainly it is wrong to act like there is nothing else. These 2 push start everything else, they are the catalyst.

If I know God then claim to love Him, then Im compelled by His Love to do what He asks of me. One of those things is to love my neighbor. I may or not want to but the command leaves no choice if I want to grow. If we start with this then pretty much everything else asked of us falls in behind. One cannot love God and not do anything for Him, it would be a empty love if so.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you 30miller;

The original post was searching for common ground between Catholics and Protestants, and Mathew 16-19, is one of the areas that seems to cause division. The only reason I suggested starting another thread on this Gospel, is because it seems to be an area of controversy and not common ground.

I am a Catholic and I have been blessed with the opportunity to support people going to a number of other denominational churches. I can only say I witness them worshipping the real historic Jesus, I cannot bring myself to put the ‘k’ word and Jesus together in the same sentence.

In the search for common ground I feel there is a great need to pray for all people outside our faith, that we may come to love every one in the way that God loves us all.

Jesus said love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciples. If we could show this love visibly for each other, common ground would multiply exponentially.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[30miller]

Most certainly it is wrong to act like there is nothing else. These 2 push start everything else, they are the catalyst.

If I know God then claim to love Him, then Im compelled by His Love to do what He asks of me. One of those things is to love my neighbor. I may or not want to but the command leaves no choice if I want to grow. If we start with this then pretty much everything else asked of us falls in behind. One cannot love God and not do anything for Him, it would be a empty love if so.

Wow. Excellent. That’s why I wanted you to think about it then put it in your words. I haven’t heard it put any better than that.

 

[30miller]

(1) The original post was searching for common ground between Catholics and Protestants, and Mathew 16-19, is one of the areas that seems to cause division.

(2) In the search for common ground I feel there is a great need to pray for all people outside our faith, that we may come to love every one in the way that God loves us all.

(3) Jesus said love one another as I have loved you, by this all men will know that you are my disciples. If we could show this love visibly for each other, common ground would multiply exponentially.

(1) Ignoring and enabling our differences and speaking only of our agreements dosen’t forward the ecumenical effort at all. Be not afraid ! You can’t go wrong if you bring ALL of Jesus into any conversation about the Faith. ALL of Jesus can only help ALL of us.
(2) Absolutely pray - “Pray Always”!
(3) Absolutely ! Just as you wouldn’t dummy down anything you were teaching your own child by forgetting and ignoring anything the child doesn’t “agree” with (supper each night would only be ice cream and cookies if the child had it that way) - so too, you must teach our separated brethren. Give them their protein and vegetables as well. It’s best for all in the long run. It’s easy to agree on the dessert - the “God is Love” aspect. But in the end we must agree on ALL of Jesus - not just the parts of Him that we cherrypick.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Wow. Excellent. That’s why I wanted you to think about it then put it in your words. I haven’t heard it put any better than that.

yea well . . . humility bites but it feels so much better when I let Him correct me.

Then actual thinking starts once the ego’s checked.

I like what you and Eric said too.