Common Misconceptions About Islam

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As for Deuteronomy 13:6-11, here is the quote

‘“If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you.’

Here are some important points

1) The punishments that were commanded in the Old Testament were** limited**, for a **specific time ** and situation. Christians do not punish people with these Old Testament punishments since we Christians are living under the New Testament now.

However, the punishments that are commanded in Islam, such as killing anyone who leaves Islam, are for all time.

2) This Old Testament commandment does not say to kill anyone who leaves Judaism or leaves the true religion,
but “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul” secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’”

Notice also that the commandment isn’t to kill everyone who entices you but
  • If your brother, the son of your mother,
  • your son or your daughter,
  • the wife of your bosom,
  • or your friend who is as your own soul
**3) ** Again, the commandment isn’t to kill “your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul” if he/she worships other gods but if he/she secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’

So it appears that these people living under the Old Testament could worship other gods if they wanted to without being killed or even hurt. But if “your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul” secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’” they are to be killed.

Islam commands that the person is killed just for leaving Islam, even if he doesn’t try to convert other Muslims to his new belief. For example, if a Muslim became a Christian and didn’t preach to Muslims about Christianity or invite them to become Christians Islam still commands that he is to be killed!

Again, this commanded in the Old Testament was ** limited**, for a **specific time ** and situation. Christians do not punish people with this Old Testament punishment since we Christians are living under the New Testament now.

However, the punishments that are commanded in Islam, such as killing anyone who leaves Islam, are for all time.

Brothers and sisters in Christ, if have I have written anything wrong, please correct me.
 
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discipleofJesus:
…
see for example
chapter 5 ‘Hidden Disciples’
answering-islam.org.uk/Books…stasy/chap5.htm
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sorry wrong link, the correct link is answering-islam.org.uk/Books/Zwemer/Apostasy/chap5.htm
 
some corrections
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discipleofJesus:
So it appears that these people living under the Old Testament could worship other gods if they wanted to without being killed or even hurt. But if “your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul” secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’” they are to be killed.
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i.e. So it appears that these people living under the Old Testament could have worshipped other gods if they wanted to without being killed or even hurt. But “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’” he/she was to be killed.
Again, this commanded in the Old Testament was limited, for a** specific time ** and situation.
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i.e. Again, this commandment in the Old Testament was limited, for a **specific time ** and situation.
 
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Neverland:
Dear Ortho,

You said;
Just show us evidence that Islam was forced on Indonesia by the sword.

First of All, don’t read Sejarah Nasional Indonesia. It was written by moslems, don’t you think so?
Let us see what happened in Padjajaran.
You are an Indonesian, Read this:

pikiran-rakyat.com/cetak/1104/22/teropong/lainnya2.htm

But see how wicked the tactic used:

First step:
Marriage between Prabu Siliwangi and Subang Larang, the daughter of a moslem.

Second step:
Indoctrination of the son/daughter about Islam

Third step:
Subang Larang made her son/daughter go out of the palace to learn about Islam → because Prabu Siliwangi was a Hindu.

Fourth step:
Kian Santang, one of the children of Prabu Siliwangi, who has been strong, force his Father to be a moslem.

Read this:
pikiran-rakyat.com/cetak/0503/21/0109.htm

Fifth step:
Prabu Siliwangi was chased to a forest, Sancang Forest, and there, it was said that Prabu Siliwangi moksa.

A son chased his own Father because of a religion has been very cruel.
Now you want to say that Islam was not spread by sword in Indonesia?

Well, you are right, it was not spread only with sword in Indonesia. It was done by soft tactic like marriage too.

Neverland
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Why shouldn’t we read things written by Muslims?

Do you recommend we avoid reading history written by Christians? Hindus? Buddhists?
 
Rodrigo Bivar:
It’s perhaps coincidental that everywhere Muslims conquer, Islamization occurs. The Demak Sultanate, for instance, which conquered Java and chased out the last Hindu Kingdoms to Bali. The Demise of the Hindu Majapahit Empire coincided with the spread of Islam. If not conversion by the sword, the sword sure played a big part. No conquest = no Islam.

indonesiaphoto.com/content/view/30/46/
Like the introduction of Indian civilization, the process of Islamization is obscure because of the lack of adequate historical records and archeological evidence. The archipelago was not invaded by outsiders and forcibly converted. Yet states that had converted to Islam often waged war against those that adhered to the older, Hindu-Buddhist traditions.

In 1605 the ruler of Gowa in southern Sulawesi (Celebes) converted to Islam and subsequently imposed Islam on neighboring rulers.
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I observe Christians conquered the Americas and Christianization occurred.
 
England, Spain, Holland, France, and other European powers conquered the Americas or the rest of the world for the crowns or the countries. They did not conquer the world in the name of Jesus Christ or Christianity. Nor did they chant “God is great!” waving their swords in the air and forced people to follow Jesus or die.
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Ortho:
I observe Christians conquered the Americas and Christianization occurred.
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MugenOne:
England, Spain, Holland, France, and other European powers conquered the Americas or the rest of the world for the crowns or the countries. They did not conquer the world in the name of Jesus Christ or Christianity. Nor did they chant “God is great!” waving their swords in the air and forced people to follow Jesus or die.
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The Spanish always took missionaries with them and took possession of the land in the name of God and the king.
 
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Ortho:
The Spanish always took missionaries with them and took possession of the land in the name of God and the king.
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Well that changes everything.
 
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Ortho:
I observe Christians conquered the Americas and Christianization occurred.
Click to expand...
Dear Ortho,
That is merely a tu quoque fallacy. Does that statement of your prove Islam wasn’t spread by the sword? Or do you think one can wipe a mote off one’s eye by pointing out the scars on someone else’s face?

Hasta Luego,
Cid
 
[Again, this commanded in the Old Testament was ** limited, for a **specific time ** and situation. Christians do not punish people with this Old Testament punishment since we Christians are living under the New Testament now.

However, the punishments that are commanded in Islam, such as killing anyone who leaves Islam, are for all time.

I totally agree with you the bible is limited for a certain time and place and that the quran is for all times
 
Pure81 said:
[Again, this commanded in the Old Testament was ** limited
Click to expand...

, for a **specific time ** and situation. Christians do not punish people with this Old Testament punishment since we Christians are living under the New Testament now.

However, the punishments that are commanded in Islam, such as killing anyone who leaves Islam, are for all time.

I totally agree with you the bible is limited for a certain time and place and that the quran is for all times

I did not say the Bible is limited for a certain time and place. I said

“Again, this commandment * in the Old Testament ** was limited**, for a **specific time ** and situation. Christians do not punish people with this Old Testament punishment since we Christians are living under the New Testament now.”

and

“The punishments that were commanded in the **Old Testament ** were limited, for a specific time and situation. Christians do not punish people with these Old Testament punishments since we Christians are living under the New Testament now.”

The Bible consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. If you do not know the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament maybe you shouldn’t be trying to find problems with the Bible or problems with Christianity?*
 
Dear Ortho,

you said:
Why shouldn’t we read things written by Muslims?

Do you recommend we avoid reading history written by Christians? Hindus? Buddhists?

Actually you must not believe only stories written by one group. Read from all sources you can get to grip the whole story and make the subjectivity less.
If I write something of Christianity, I may be biassed in the favor of Christianity. And it’s human, it also happens to the moslems. so I should correct what I said. I want to say Don’t read ONLY Sejarah Nasional Indonesia.
Have you read the whole story of Padjajaran from the sources I gave you?

Neverland.
 
gurrato alaien:
  1. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.
The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.
Click to expand...
The Legacy of Jihad in India by Andrew G. Bostom
andrewbostom.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=27
 
gurrato alaien:
  1. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.
The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.
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Rodrigo Bivar:
There were simply too many Hindus to kill. geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/5142/negislamindia.html

The number of non-Muslims in India, by right, should be 100%. This 80% is false anyway, because you didn’t add Pakistan and Bangladesh which were carved out of India during the Partition to appease the Muslims.
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Good points again Rodrigo Bivar.

Here’s a good article on the legacy of jihad in India.
“The Legacy of Jihad in India” by Andrew G. Bostom
andrewbostom.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=27
 
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discipleofJesus:
I did not say the Bible is limited for a certain time and place. I said

“Again, this commandment * in the Old Testament *** was limited**, for a **specific time ** and situation. Christians do not punish people with this Old Testament punishment since we Christians are living under the New Testament now.”

and

“The punishments that were commanded in the **Old Testament ** were limited, for a specific time and situation. Christians do not punish people with these Old Testament punishments since we Christians are living under the New Testament now.”

The Bible consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. If you do not know the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament maybe you shouldn’t be trying to find problems with the Bible or problems with Christianity?

i am not even trying to find a problem with the bible or christianity they are both part of what i beilive in so if i don’t beilive in the bible i am not a muslim anymore, wht i am discussing here is the same as the Old Testament became old , even though it is still used by the jews, which is part of your religion, islam is a devolpment of the new testament, do you see what i am saying here?
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Rodrigo Bivar:
Dear Ortho,
That is merely a tu quoque fallacy. Does that statement of your prove Islam wasn’t spread by the sword? Or do you think one can wipe a mote off one’s eye by pointing out the scars on someone else’s face?

Hasta Luego,
Cid
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I like when folks name fallacies. Shows some education.

It does not prove Islam was not spread by the sword.

One cannot wipe a mote off they eye by pointing to scars on someone else’s face.

However, one can point out that standards applied to one group can reasonably be applied to another.
 
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Neverland:
Dear Ortho,

you said:
Why shouldn’t we read things written by Muslims?

Do you recommend we avoid reading history written by Christians? Hindus? Buddhists?

Actually you must not believe only stories written by one group. Read from all sources you can get to grip the whole story and make the subjectivity less.
If I write something of Christianity, I may be biassed in the favor of Christianity. And it’s human, it also happens to the moslems. so I should correct what I said. I want to say Don’t read ONLY Sejarah Nasional Indonesia.
Have you read the whole story of Padjajaran from the sources I gave you?

Neverland.
Click to expand...
I’m glad you think we should avail oursevles of a whole range of scholarship.
 
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Ortho:
I like when folks name fallacies. Shows some education.

It does not prove Islam was not spread by the sword.

One cannot wipe a mote off they eye by pointing to scars on someone else’s face.

However, one can point out that standards applied to one group can reasonably be applied to another.
Click to expand...
Yes, all that money I spent at U wasn’t only for beer.

It’s true that the standards should be reasonably applied to all. However, that is another topic - it would be a side issue - i.e. a red herring if we were to discuss Christianity’s violent past when the topic is whether or not Islam was spread by the sword.

Hasta Luego,
Rodrigo
 
Dear Ortho,

You said:
I’m glad you think we should avail oursevles of a whole range of scholarship.

So, what is your comment of the case in Padjajaran, where Kian Santang chased his father to Sancang Forest to force him to be a moslem? His Father never forced him to be a Hindu, although Kian Santang was his own son. Poor king and father. What do you think? Is it enough to show that Islam was spread by sword as well in Indonesia?

Neverland
 
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