Common Principals of Faith we Share

[Servant19]

The Jews are wrong aren’t they.

And so are the Christians

 

[Servant19]

The bible doesn’t explain it enough for you? I know what you are trying to do and I am not convinced that your prophet is the spiritual coming of Jesus. I don’t accept that simply because you say that is the case.

I don’t want you to take my word for it brother. In fact I would hate you to do so…

THIS IS BETWEEN YOU AND GOD…
(Don’t shoot me, I’m the messenger)

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

And so are the Christians

Simply claiming it doesn’t make it so. I have no intention on debating Jews about prophecy, I approach jews from a different angle. But you bahai only seem to approach this from simple comparisons between the religions of the past with your pre established view of how history has worked in this regard which others do not accept. Its not enough in terms of argumentation.

When I say the early church taught things contrary to bahai, you have no responce to this. What does it mean for Jesus’s name to be the only name under heaven and earth by whcih we shall be saved? Does that mean we shall be saved under Moses’s name? What does it mean that all judgement has been given to the son? you admitted Jesus and your prophet are not hte same person, thus when Jesus is speaking about the son, he says it singular and refers to himself, not this general concept bahais have of manifestations. Bahais have to read their theology into the bible when their theology did not exist in the bible.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I don’t want you to take my word for it brother. In fact I would hate you to do so…

THIS IS BETWEEN YOU AND GOD…
(Don’t shoot me, I’m the messenger)

And through all I know your prophet is false. Now what do we do? Get beyond this claiming that we are right?

 

[daler]

The Jews are wrong aren’t they. Also I miss nothing in your false prophet that is not in Christ already. I’ve asked Bahai to show me what Jesus lacked, he gave perfection and salvation, something I don’t need from anyone else. It is under his name, not your prophet, that I shall be saved.

Simply making this comparison again and again, as if CHristians are the jews of today, won’t convince us. You will have do what Justin Martyr did.

Ignatian,
. When I read this last sentence, I could only think of Servant’s cousin, the recent “martyr” in Elam, for whom Justin took his name. Mr. Ataollah Rezvani.

. This is not a word game, my friend. The crucifixion of the Lord Jesus was not a game. The Cause of God is not a game to be played, neither in real life, nor the internet. We are not here playing games or making numbers fit by some human efforts. They simply fall into place along with all the other evidence and prophecies.

. Ignatian, dear friend in Christ. I have a good friend in town here who is just as smart as anyone I know. Very educated and capable of the highest complexity of thought and argument. Yet he’s a racist. He cannot - make that “will not” see - people of color as his equal. You cannot - or will not - see what it is that we see, and we cannot tell you what we see.

. My eyes come from a reservation in South Dakota where Indians were walked over and spit on, cursed and beaten, declared to be non-human. You declare us to be non-believers in Christ. To you be your religion and to us be ours.

. We love you in the name of Jesus, Whom we praise and accept, but no matter how much of that love we show you, as best we know how, you have this need which we cannot fill. You have some kind of need for exclusivity. You have it, friend. You are exclusive. Jesus loves you, exclusively.

. God bless you in this Christmas season, friend. Merry Christmas!

. PS To better understand what transcends mere intellectual faith, kindly read a little bit of this link and gaze into the eyes of a true martyr, and tell what you see. Is this the face of a fanatic? Or is this the face of one who is a lover of God, who believes in His Messengers, and testifies to his faith, not with words typed simply on a keyboard, but with blood running from a gunshot wound to the head, spilling onto the street, as a testimony to his faith. It happened as well, in Elam, and is the result of the Lord setting His throne there. “Many shall fall by the edge of the sword”.

Please read, my friend: sensday.wordpress.com/2013/08/30/bahai-martyred-in-bandar-abbas/

 

[tonyfish58]

A new name meaning a totally different person in the form and fashion totally unlike how he left, with a totally different message? If you want to argue that, sure, but the point of Christ’s coming back is judgement. The world will know, the world will be judged and all judgement has been given into the hands of the son to make such judgement, at which point all knees will bow to Jesus Christ as King and Lord. I know you reject that biblical idea.

Sorry I have been away for a few days, but I saw this comment.

Again we do not reject the Day of Judgment, dear friend we are right in the middle of it, or most likely it is rapidly coming to an end.

May God protect us all from out Ignorance of “His True Love” and Iggy we all need that protection

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

So he wasn’t really Jesus, your just claiming he is a Jesus figure. So stop calling him Jesus, we know now you don’t consider him literally Jesus. Its a meaingless thing to then say your prophet was Jesus when you know precisely he was not. He contradicted Jesus, did he not? Do you Bahai consider Mirza Hussain’s name, the name under heaven and earth by which you are saved? Or Jesus Christ’s name? Remember we have established they are not the same in terms of their person.

IgnatianPhilo - Jesus was the given name to the man born, as we know He became Christ when the dove descended upon Him at His Baptism. Thus the Station of Jesus was that of Christ (The Anointed One) He was known as Christ the Son of God!

Mirza Hussein Ali Nouri was the given name to the man born, as we know He became Baha’ullah when the maiden descended upon him in the Siyah-Chal. Thus the station of Mirza Hussein Ali Nouri was that of Baha’ullah (“The Glory of God”) He was known as the Father.

The Station of Christ is One with the Station of Baha’u’llah as it is with Muhammad and all the Prophets. There is no distinction to be made, their message is One.

Why it appears that the Causes of God change, is because it is man’s understanding that is Changing. We are part of this world of creation and creation is subject to Change. Birth on to Maturity on to Death.

Regards Tony

 

[SteveVH]

And the merry-go-round continues… I haven’t looked at this thread for some time now, and I haven’t missed anything.

 

[tonyfish58]

And the merry-go-round continues… I haven’t looked at this thread for some time now, and I haven’t missed anything.

Are you sure about that now

"To them that are endowed with understanding, it is clear and manifest that when the fire of the love of Jesus consumed the veils of Jewish limitations, and His authority was made apparent and partially enforced, He the Revealer of the unseen Beauty, addressing one day His disciples, referred unto His passing, and, kindling in their hearts the fire of bereavement, said unto them: “I go away and come again unto you.” And in another place He said: “I go and another will come Who will tell you all that I have not told you, and will fulfil all that I have said.” Both these sayings have but one meaning, were you to ponder upon the Manifestations of the Unity of God with divine insight.

“Every discerning observer will recognize that in the Dispensation of the Qur’án both the Book and the Cause of Jesus were confirmed. As to the matter of names, Muḥammad, Himself, declared: “I am Jesus.” He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from that of Muḥammad and of His holy Book, inasmuch as both have championed the Cause of God, uttered His praise, and revealed His commandments. Thus it is that Jesus, Himself, declared: “I go away and come again unto you.” Consider the sun. Were it to say now, “I am the sun of yesterday,” it would speak the truth. And should it, bearing the sequence of time in mind, claim to be other than that sun, it still would speak the truth. In like manner, if it be said that all the days are but one and the same, it is correct and true. And if it be said, with respect to their particular names and designations, that they differ, that again is true. For though they are the same, yet one doth recognize in each a separate designation, a specific attribute, a particular character. Conceive accordingly the distinction, variation, and unity characteristic of the various Manifestations of holiness, that thou mayest comprehend the allusions made by the creator of all names and attributes to the mysteries of distinction and unity, and discover the answer to thy question as to why that everlasting Beauty should have, at sundry times, called Himself by different names and titles”.

The Kitab-i-iqan - (The Book of Certitude) Baha’u’llah reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-1.html

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Here are a couple more I found

Christian

“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

John 16:33

Jewish

So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

Isaiah 41:10

Muslim

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquillity with them; and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts). Verily in that are Signs for people who reflect.

Surah 30:21

 

[tonyfish58]

Quotations from the Holy Books of the Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, and Baha’i Faiths on the afterlife. Part 1

Krishna: Hindu Faith, 2000 B.C. Holy Scripture: Bhagavad-Gita

Who in all his work sees God, he in truth goes unto God…

He is the never-created Creator of all: he knows all, … the creator of all time… From him comes the transmigration of life and liberation: bondage in time and freedom Eternity.

The transmigration of life, takes place in one’s own mind. Let one therefore keep the mind pure, for what a man thinks that he becomes: this is a mystery of Eternity.

The Spirit, without moving, is swifter than the mind; the senses cannot reach him: He is ever beyond them. …

… the Spirit though one, takes new forms in all things that live. He is within all, and is also outside.

The Spirit that is in all beings is immortal in them all: for the death of what cannot die, cease thou to sorrow.

At the moment of death the sum of all the experiences of life on earth comes to the surface of the mind-for in the mind are stored all the impressions of past deeds and the dying man then becomes absorbed in these experiences.

Moses Jewish Faith, 1330.B C. Holy Scripture: Old Testament

A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth. Ecclesiastes 7:1

…the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

…he who goes down to the grave does not return. Job 7:9

… Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for you are with me…Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. Psalms 23: 1-6

Buddha Buddhist Faith, 560 B.C. Holy Scripture: Tipitaka Quotes from: (The Tibetan Book of the Dead)

First of all there will appear to you, swifter than lightning, the luminous splendor of the colorless light of Emptiness, and that will surround you on all sides. …Try to submerge yourself in that light, giving up all belief in a separate self, all attachment to your illusory ego.

… Buddhas and Bodhisattvas will for seven days appear to you in their benign and peaceful aspect. Their light will shine upon you, … Wonderful and delightful though they are, The Buddhas may nevertheless frighten you. Do not give in to your fright! Do not run away! Serenely contemplate the spectacle before you! Overcome your fear, and feel no desire! Realize that these are the rays of the grace of the Buddhas, who come to receive you into their Buddha-realms. Pray to them with intense faith and humility, …

But if you miss it, you will next be confronted with the angry deities, … threatening you and barring your passage … because you turned a deaf ear to the saving truths of religion. All these forms are strange to you, … they terrify you, … and yet it is you who have created them. Do not give in to your fright, … flee them not! They are but … the contents of your own mind… If at this point you should manage to understand that, … and you will find yourself in a paradise among the angels.

The judgment: You are now before Yama, King of the Dead. In vain will you try to…deny or conceal the evil deeds you have done. … the mirror in which Yama seems to read your past is your own memory, and also his judgment is your own. It is you yourself who pronounce your own judgment, …

Go to Part 2

 

[tonyfish58]

Part 2

Christ Christian Faith, 1 A.D. Holy Scripture: New Testament

…Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. …

I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. John 11:25,26-5:24

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body…And just as we have borne the likeness of earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. I Corinthians 15:50

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. II Corinthians 4:18

The spirit gives life the flesh is of no avail. John 6:63

…The body without the spirit is dead. … James 2:26

As long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord… and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. II Corinthians 5:5-6

Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:13

God will give to each person according to what he has done. Romans 2:6

Muhammad Muslim Faith, 622 A.D Holy Scripture: Qur’an

They know the outward shows of this life present but of the next life are they careless. Have they not consider the heavens and the earth and all that is between them but for a serious end, and for a fixed term? But truly most men believe not that they shall meet their Lord. 30:6-7

… and we will test you with evil and with good; and unto us shall ye be brought back. 21:35-36

Whatever good works ye send on before [death]… ye shall find with God. 13:20

And they will ask thee of the spirit. Say: The spirit proceedeth at my Lord’s command; but of knowledge, only a little is given to you. 17:18

On a certain day shall every soul come to plead for itself, and every soul shall be repaid according to its deeds; and they shall not be wronged.

By God ye shall be called to account for your doings! 16:58

Go to Part 3

 

[tonyfish58]

Part 3

Baha’u’llah Baha’i Faith 1844 A.D. Holy Scripture includes writings of The Bab (the forerunner), Baha’u’llah (the prophet founder), and 'Abdu’l-Baha (the son of Baha’u’llah)

Know, thou, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and bow down in adoration before Him. … Verily I say, the human soul is exalted above all egress and regress. It is still, and yet it soareth; it moveth, and yet it is still. It is, in itself, a testimony that beareth witness to the existence of a world that is contingent, as well as to the reality of a world that hath neither beginning nor end.

The soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes or chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. When the human soul soareth out of this transient heap of dust and riseth into the world of God, then veils will fall away, and verities will come to light, and all things unknown before will be made clear, and hidden truths be understood.

The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, … The light which these souls radiate is responsible for the progress of the world and the advancement of its peoples … and constitute the animating force through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest.

Bring thyself to account each day ere thou art summoned to a reckoning; for death, unheralded, shall come upon thee and thou shalt be called to give account for thy deeds.

… The decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

Unto each one hath been prescribed a preordained measure, as decreed in God’s mighty and guarded Tablets. All that which ye potentially possess can, however, be manifested only as a result of your own volition.

Abdu’l-Baha

The wisdom of the appearance of the spirit in the body is this: the human spirit is a Divine Trust, and it must traverse all conditions, for its passage and movement through the conditions of existence will be the means of its acquiring perfections.

The human spirit may be likened to the bounty of the sun shining on a mirror. The body of man, … grows and develops through the animal spirit.

This perfected body can be compared to a mirror, and the human spirit to the sun. Nevertheless, if the mirror breaks, the bounty of the sun continues; and if the mirror is destroyed or ceases to exist, no harm will happen to the bounty of the sun, which is everlasting. This spirit has the power of discovery; it encompasses all things …

In the beginning of his human life man was embryonic in the world of the matrix. There he received capacity and endowment for the reality of human existence. The forces and powers necessary for this world were bestowed upon him in that limited condition. In this world he needed eyes; he received them potentially in the other. He needed ears; he obtained them there in readiness and preparation for his new existence. The powers requisite in this world were conferred upon him in the world of the matrix.

Therefore, in this world he must prepare himself for the life beyond. That which he needs in the world of the Kingdom must be obtained here. Just as he prepared himself in the world of the matrix by acquiring forces necessary in this sphere of existence, so, likewise, the indispensable forces of the divine existence must be potentially attained in this world.

That world beyond is a world of sanctity and radiance; therefore, it is necessary that in this world he should acquire these divine attributes. In that world there is need of spirituality, faith, assurance, the knowledge and love of God. These he must attain in this world so that after his ascension from the earthly to the heavenly Kingdom he shall find all that is needful in that eternal life ready for him.

The mind and spirit of man advance when he is tried by suffering. … so suffering and tribulation free man from the petty affairs of this worldly life until he arrives at a state of complete detachment.

 

[SteveVH]

Are you sure about that now

Yep. Pretty sure. Same old thing over and over and over again.

 

[SteveVH]

Are you sure about that now

"To them that are endowed with understanding, it is clear and manifest that when the fire of the love of Jesus consumed the veils of Jewish limitations, and His authority was made apparent and partially enforced, He the Revealer of the unseen Beauty, addressing one day His disciples, referred unto His passing, and, kindling in their hearts the fire of bereavement, said unto them: “I go away and come again unto you.” And in another place He said: “I go and another will come Who will tell you all that I have not told you, and will fulfil all that I have said.” Both these sayings have but one meaning, were you to ponder upon the Manifestations of the Unity of God with divine insight.

“Every discerning observer will recognize that in the Dispensation of the Qur’án both the Book and the Cause of Jesus were confirmed. As to the matter of names, Muḥammad, Himself, declared: “I am Jesus.” He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from that of Muḥammad and of His holy Book, inasmuch as both have championed the Cause of God, uttered His praise, and revealed His commandments. Thus it is that Jesus, Himself, declared: “I go away and come again unto you.” Consider the sun. Were it to say now, “I am the sun of yesterday,” it would speak the truth. And should it, bearing the sequence of time in mind, claim to be other than that sun, it still would speak the truth. In like manner, if it be said that all the days are but one and the same, it is correct and true. And if it be said, with respect to their particular names and designations, that they differ, that again is true. For though they are the same, yet one doth recognize in each a separate designation, a specific attribute, a particular character. Conceive accordingly the distinction, variation, and unity characteristic of the various Manifestations of holiness, that thou mayest comprehend the allusions made by the creator of all names and attributes to the mysteries of distinction and unity, and discover the answer to thy question as to why that everlasting Beauty should have, at sundry times, called Himself by different names and titles”.

The Kitab-i-iqan - (The Book of Certitude) Baha’u’llah reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-1.html

Regards Tony

That is the biggest bunch of baloney I’ve read in a long time, with too many errors to even begin to comment. Nearly everything about Jesus is rejected by Islam and to try to paint a picture that they accept Jesus for who he really is nothing but ludicrous.

 

[daler]

That is the biggest bunch of baloney I’ve read in a long time, with too many errors to even begin to comment. Nearly everything about Jesus is rejected by Islam and to try to paint a picture that they accept Jesus for who he really is nothing but ludicrous.

Steve,
. Setting aside for a moment your obvious rejection of Baha’u’llah, do you understand in principal what He is saying regarding the reappearance of the Sun. To make it simpler, let us say that the sun rises only once every thousand years, and we can call that a single day as a reference for a certain span of time.

. If my eyes are fixed upon the horizon, where my ancestors said the sun once rose, and tell me indeed that the sun shall rise again, that when it does in fact rise, but upon a different point on the horizon, with a slightly different background to frame it, this time to the left of the mountain when before it rose from the right, and the shadows and clouds accompanying the sun’s rise of yesterday, which were recorded by the ancients, differ from the shadows and clouds which accompanied it when it rose this morning.

. If you can follow the logic of the reappearance of one and the same sun on a different horizon with the appearance of certain shadows and clouds in the analogy, then you may at least comprehend that which we perceive to be the reappearance of the same sun. Let us say that the mountain to the right is the understanding of the Trinity, and the mountain to the left is the exaltation of the sun above the mountain.

. In this analogy, the mountain is the specific religion and the sun which illumines the valley below, where the people dwell, is the essential feature on the horizon of spiritual truth. The shadows and clouds are the perceptions and beliefs associated with the peoples of former times. Thus has the sun shone above the horizon of outward semblances, traditions, and Institutions which contain outmoded dogma, exalting men’s authority, which are as mountains.

. “And the mountains shall be crumbled with a crumbling,. And shall become scattered dust.” Quran Surah 56 Rodwell

. Even as Peter was called the “Rock”, so too in ancient times men were sometimes referred to as mountains, and their great authority was associated with their name. In the “great and terrible Day of the Lord”, all such men are as but dust before the appearance of the Messenger of God. It is these mountainous authorities and assumptions which crumble. (I am not referring to Peter or his position - but others and their understanding).

. "They measure not God with His true measure. The earth altogether shall be His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens shall be rolled up in His right hand. Glory be to Him! High be He exalted above that they associate.

. For the Trumpet shall be blown, and whosoever is in the heavens and whosoever is in the earth shall swoon, save whom God wills. Then it shall be blown again, and lo, they shall stand, beholding.

. And the earth shall shine with the light of its Lord, and the Book shall be set in place, and the Prophets and witnesses shall be brought, and justly the issue be decided between them, and they not wronged." Quran Surah 39:67, 68. 69

. Even as the Bible speaks of the Three Woes, the Two Trumpet Blasts are the Second and Third Woe (Behold, the third Woe cometh quickly). For Muhammad was that First Woe spoken of in the Bible. 1260 years later came the Second Woe, Who was the Bab. And the Third Woe, which came quickly thereafter, was Baha’u’llah Who, in the year 1280 AH then appeared, as foretold in Daniel, exactly 1290 years following the public declaration of Muhammad.

. Coincidence? Perhaps, but the numbers fit precisely, and history records exactly, and as Daniel’s vision occurred in Elam, and that being the place of the appearance of the Bab in the year 1260 AH, it does give one pause to reflect upon the possibilities, does it not?

. The meaning of the “heavens shall be rolled up” refers to the Heaven of Revelation upon the earth of men’s understanding which receives it. “There shall be a New Heaven (of Revelation) and a New Earth (of understanding)” for the “Old (past) Heaven and Old Earth have passed away” That is, a new Dispensation has appeared upon the horizon with the coming of the new Revelation from God which fulfills that which was prophesied before.

.

 

[SteveVH]

Steve,
. Setting aside for a moment your obvious rejection of Baha’u’llah, do you understand in principal what He is saying regarding the reappearance of the Sun. To make it simpler, let us say that the sun rises only once every thousand years, and we can call that a single day as a reference for a certain span of time.

. If my eyes are fixed upon the horizon, where my ancestors said the sun once rose, and tell me indeed that the sun shall rise again, that when it does in fact rise, but upon a different point on the horizon, with a slightly different background to frame it, this time to the left of the mountain when before it rose from the right, and the shadows and clouds accompanying the sun’s rise of yesterday, which were recorded by the ancients, differ from the shadows and clouds which accompanied it when it rose this morning.

It’s very simple, daler. The Christian Sun, the Son of God, has risen for eternity and will never set. We do not await a new sun to rise. Our Sun perpetually shines on us.

 

[Servant19]

It’s very simple, daler. The Christian Sun, the Son of God, has risen for eternity and will never set. We do not await a new sun to rise. Our Sun perpetually shines on us.

And yet the whole world is going to shot…

.

 

[daler]

It’s very simple, daler. The Christian Sun, the Son of God, has risen for eternity and will never set. We do not await a new sun to rise. Our Sun perpetually shines on us.

Steve,
. God bless you, brother, and I wish you a very Merry Christmas… I most sincerely do.

. For me, as a Christian, I came to know the meaning of Christmas in a different way, through meeting and getting to know the descendants of some of the survivors a couple of reservations over:

. The Hotchkiss guns opened fire, not on the braves, but on the tipi camp full of women and children. The Indian women fled, screaming as shells tracked them across the snow. The small cannon fired a 3.2 inch shell. The soldier standing (Corporal Paul Weinert) received the Congressional Medal of Honor for his actions at Wounded Knee.

. On December 29, 1890 at Wounded Knee, over 300 men, women and children were killed by the United States 7th Cavalry. The wounded, but surviving Sioux of that day were taken by the wagonload to Pine Ridge Agency where they were treated at the Episcopalian mission. Lying on hay spread on the mission floor, they were in plain sight of the words written above the Christian pulpit, “Peace on Earth, Good Will Towards Men”.

. "Nothing I have seen in my whole life, ever effected or depressed or haunted me like the scenes I saw that night in that church. One un-wounded old woman held a baby on her lap. I handed a cup of water to the old woman telling her ‘give it to the child’ who grabbed it as if parched with thirst, and as she swallowed it hurriedly, I saw it gush right out again, a blood stained stream through a hole in her neck. Heart sick, I went to find the surgeon. For a moment he stood there. Near the door, looking over the mass of suffering and dying women and children, and ahhh the silence, the silence they kept was so complete, it was oppressive. And then to my amazement, I saw the surgeon, who I knew had served in the Civil War, had begun to grow pale “this is the first time I have seen a lot of women and children shot to pieces,” he said “and I can’t stand it.”

~ Thomas Tibbles ~

White reporter at Wounded Knee

oneofmanyfeathers.com/massacre_at_wounded_knee.html

. All I am saying is that we need to own up to where we are at in the world, whether at Wounded Knee or My Lai. There is more to “Christ” than a Name, however great that Name. For there is a Sun behind that Name which can never be denied. That Name reflects the Light of that Sun, but people run from the Light and still cling to the Name. What’s up with that??
.

 

[tonyfish58]

It’s very simple, daler. The Christian Sun, the Son of God, has risen for eternity and will never set. We do not await a new sun to rise. Our Sun perpetually shines on us.

Steve - To deny that the sun rises in many Zodiacs is IMHO to deny reality! God creation is beautiful because of the diversity and the different seasons.

Religion can be the same, or we can choose to live in Winter all the time!

May Christmas be good to you & all

Regards Tony