Common sense do we need to be active in protecting ourselves?

[michrist1024]

Hello…

As you may or may not read on my thread in FL I’m going through a tough spiritual battle right now.

I’m settled on not buying the secular book (from a former bouncer no less!) I think that would just serve to feed something that doesn’t need awakened.

My question though for those not familiar with my situation is would God still want me to carry pepper spray? Now, before you say what I think I know in my heart…I read a story from a lady who was followed in an elevator by a youth…she knew he intended her harm…long story short out of nowhere a “lady” appeared and pushed the 10th floor…the 1st woman told the kid it was his turn to push the button…so he pushed 8…while the 1st one pushed her desired 4th floor…the kid didn’t follow her she presumed b/c he commited himself in front of the other lady to the 8th floor…now the “lady” was described to be dressed in cream and have the same color hair…as if she were colorless…the woman was convinced that it was an angel sent by God (I believe that can happen) and it was for her to warn others…so she commented that she doesn’t expect God to save her again…so now she carries pepper spray!

Doesn’t that seem counterproductive? I mean if we trust fully and if I am to embrace Eph 6:10 which I am doing do I not fully trust in God. See, I’m answering my own question but I guess I need to hear it resoundingly from others.

I know this comes from my past dealing with 2 stalker types…plus my ex was very abusive, at one point I had scissors at my throat, God saved me…so what’s my problem? I am fearing that by some pre destiny I am going to need to be martyred and I’m embarrassed beyond belief at that…b/c I should be in such great company…I feel I am failing in my christian walk

Alright if no pepper spray…what about a personal alarm? I really hope to need none of this…it’s just going back into that area now for nursing school has such unpleasant memories for me (car break ins etc…) But is it foolish to think if we ask for the armor of God and to protect us…the evil ones will just pass us by…b/c I am under his protection?

I wish I weren’t so confused…the closer I get the further I feel I back step.

God bless,
Michele

 

[baltobetsy]

There once was a man whose house was threatened by a flood. He prayed and prayed that God would save him from the waters. As the water rose to the front porch, a motorboat came by and the operator offered the man a ride. “No, thanks,” he said, “God is going to save me.”

As the water rose to the second floor level, another motorboat came by, and the operator offered the man a ride to safety. “No, thanks,” he said, “God is going to save me.”

Soon the man had to climb up on the roof to be above the water. A third boat came by, but he man refused a ride, saying that God was going to save him.

Pretty soon, the man drowned, and when he reached the pearly gates, he asked God why He did not save him. God said, “I sent you three boats. What more did you want??”

God will not always intervene directly. Sometimes He gives you what you need to take care of yourself. Get the pepper spray.

Betsy

 

[Della]

God certainly cares for us and watches over us, but he also expects us to use our common sense–that’s why he gave us brains.

 

[ltbpoe43]

Agree with balto -

The signs have come and gone - the stalker types, the ex.

Carry the spray and a St. Michael medal.

God watches over us all and unfortunately even the evildoer’s have free will. Our job is to follow our heart and conscience and not ignore signs that we should protect ourselves from unsafe places or persons.

Good luck in nursing - my wife is a nurse too.

 

[vern_humphrey]

If you had no job, would you expect an angel to bring you food – or do you think God would want you to get a job and support yourself? What about your children – would you let them starve while waiting for God to take care of them?

If you were sick, would you refuse to go to a doctor, expecting God to take care of you? What about your children?

God helps those who help themselves.

From the Catechism:
Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. **Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow: **

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.66

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

 

[Church_Militant]

God helps those who help themselves.

BTW Vern, that from Aesop’s Fables.

I taught women’s self defense for several years as a Black Belt in Karate.

Find a copy of Lisa Sliwa’s Common Sense Defense video. Her husband founded the Guardian Angels group and she was nearly raped at one point. She knows her stuff.

If you want a good course, then by all means call around and see if there is a martial arts school or your local community school that offers a 4-6 week course for women.

Pepper spray is as good as anything else, but my way was to make you the meanest girl in the world for about 90 seconds so that you can then put it in “Reebok” and get the heck outta Dodge. Hair spray works, as does breath spray.

There’s a neat little thing that is based on the Okinawan “yawara stick” called a kubatan. http://www.selfdefence.com/images/sdp/keychains/small_kub.jpg you hook your keys to it and can either use the rod or the keys as SD weapons. It works…with a little training my girls can put a guy on his knees before he even realizes it.

One of them is the wife of our former youth minister and he recounted to me after RCIA one night that when he dogged his gf (now his lovely wife) into showing him what she learned that night (We’d done choking defenses) she put him down in a flash when he reached for her throat. She, her Mom and her sisters were some of my best students.

Hidi Ochiai’s Complete Book of Self Defense
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/516V1MP0A4L.BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg
is also outstanding and shows photos that show each stage along the way. The prices are better than they were when i bought my copy long ago. I highly recommend it.

As for martyrdom…When that time really comes, you’ll know it.

 

[Genesis315]

Got to agree with everyone–there’s faith, prudence, negligence, and presumption. You want the fist two, but not the second two.

Just like we don’t just lie in bed all day expecting God to provide, we should do what we should all the while trusting completely that whatever happens is the will of God. The fact is, he has provided you with protection (like pepper spray or karate). We should use what God provides instead of asking for more impressive miracles (not that you are doing that, I’m just sayin’ )

 

[vern_humphrey]

One point I should make – if you’re using martial arts, you’re already in contact with your attacker. With pepper spray, you have a bit of standoff – you don’t have to let him touch you to use it.

But – as politically uncorrect as it may be, a firearm is the best defense. And very extensive studies show that in more than 90% of the cases, when a firearm is used defensively, it is not fired. The mere presense of the gun usually brings an attack to a screeching halt.

 

[michrist1024]

There’s a neat little thing that is based on the Okinawan “yawara stick” called a kubatan. Personal Protection Devices | Survival Kits For Sale | Self Defense Equipment - J & L Self Defense Products you hook your keys to it and can either use the rod or the keys as SD weapons. It works…with a little training my girls can put a guy on his knees before he even realizes it.

Thanks for the info. the kubotan does look rather cool…I was wondering though the difference between the “flat” one as in your pic or the finger grip one with the point. My common sense would say the one with the point is better but maybe not? Can you tell me the differences.

I am looking into taking a self defense course…it’s taught 8 weeks I think I can fit it in around nursing since it’s actually on the weekends.

I found something called R.A.D. but that seems like since it’s only 4 hours 1 day then another 8 on a saturday it probably would just be basics that you could almost get from a video.

Also, there’s a theory by Peyton Quinn that says the “majority” of attacks can be held off when they see that you are not ‘victim’ material, in not falling for the set up, interview etc…is that true or just wishful thinking? I’m also understanding that for the most part if you do have pepper spray it may not work in all situations…that attackers figure you have it etc…

Lastly, I’m sure that you and your students do feel more confident on the streets, but really have they had to use it? I guess I ask because for the “most” part I live in a peaceful area…I suppose anything can happen, but I am asking if in taking all of these precautions if I’m not “asking for it” rather than if I just would have ignored all the concerns in the first place and just went about my life.

Thanks again…you’ve all been really helpful

 

[michrist1024]

I really wish you could edit your posts…

anyway one other q on the kubotan it says even if taken away from you…it can’t be used unless they also know how to use it. Is that true? Seems that anyone could swing it and hit with keys or whatever even if they don’t have knowledge on the pressure points. I just want to make sure after I take the self defense classes if I get this…it would be smart, not be something like pepper spray that may or may not work in all instances. Another thing I don’t like about spray is the accuracy that you have to have to be effective, I’m guessing once your students completed the class they didn’t have the need for the spray or is that 1st line of defense and the hand defense is second?

Did you have people through the years that really didn’t think they could do this (can’t kick high enough for one thing) and totally surprised themselves? I fool around a bit with tae bo…probably laughable in comparison, but that’s the thing that gets me is the kicks.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I really wish you could edit your posts…

You can edit your posts – but there is a limited time window. You have to edit within a few minutes after you post.

When you post, read your post over. If it needs editing, there is an “edit” button right next to the “quote” button.

 

[michrist1024]

Okay Church Militant

I promise to stop being a pest…but in my quest of researching this.

Can you explain what is really the difference between tae kwon do and kenpo? Would one be preferred over the other?

I called a local place…in fact my son went there and they don’t offer SD “per se” he said it’s part of the teaching in general, this would be the tae kwon do place. The other place is a much further drive (but I’d do it for quality) that would be the kenpo after SD 8 week training. I’m also thinking of possibly taking the SD at further place then pick up reg classes at tae kwon do…but I don’t know if one form is more desirable. Also, the instructor/owener for TKD is a 5th degree black belt…and the kenpo is a 3rd degree…however he trains police officers. It seems kenpo would be more practical and user friendly since I’m not super limber at this point. Also if I’m doing this…are the videos you mentioned still useful…or is this def better?

I’m thinking perhaps God is preparing me for something down the road…maybe not an attacker down the road but maybe something in the hospital setting…I’ve learned to never doubt where God is leading…but I’m trying hard to not be afraid of that!

Oh, and I know you can edit post with in 20min…but either I can’t get back to the post fast enough or the thought didn’t come to me yet! Again, I don’t mean to keep adding more and more to this…but I thought it may be easier in case you see this over the weekend to just get all my answers.

TIA

 

[Church_Militant]

QUOTE=michrist

There’s a neat little thing that is based on the Okinawan “yawara stick” called a kubatan. Personal Protection Devices | Survival Kits For Sale | Self Defense Equipment - J & L Self Defense Products

you hook your keys to it and can either use the rod or the keys as SD weapons. It works…with a little training my girls can put a guy on his knees before he even realizes it.

Thanks for the info. the kubotan does look rather cool…I was wondering though the difference between the “flat” one as in your pic or the finger grip one with the point. My common sense would say the one with the point is better but maybe not? Can you tell me the differences.

The one I have also has a rounded point. It’s not really a big deal but it does sort of focus the force and pressure when used against a pressure point.

I am looking into taking a self defense course…it’s taught 8 weeks I think I can fit it in around nursing since it’s actually on the weekends.

Excellent. And being a nurse, I suggest that you review your knowledge of pressure points. Below the ears, tracheal notch, front joint ot the shoulders, armpits, under the nose, wrist, ulnar nerve plexus…and all the rest.

I found something called R.A.D. but that seems like since it’s only 4 hours 1 day then another 8 on a saturday it probably would just be basics that you could almost get from a video.

Either way… you need to find a friend who doesn’t mind helping you practice. Sometimes a fellow classmate that lives nearby.

Also, there’s a theory by Peyton Quinn that says the “majority” of attacks can be held off when they see that you are not ‘victim’ material, in not falling for the set up, interview etc…is that true or just wishful thinking? I’m also understanding that for the most part if you do have pepper spray it may not work in all situations…that attackers figure you have it etc…

He’s right. My sensei used to tell us that the best tool for self defense is located between your ears. He was right of course. Also, I taught girls to “go with their gut” and if you feel uncomfortable…or as if someone is watching you… they probably are. The Togakure Ryu ninja teach their people never to look directly at someone they are observing…human beings can innately feel it.

Lastly, I’m sure that you and your students do feel more confident on the streets, but really have they had to use it? I guess I ask because for the “most” part I live in a peaceful area…I suppose anything can happen, but I am asking if in taking all of these precautions if I’m not “asking for it” rather than if I just would have ignored all the concerns in the first place and just went about my life.

Some have… One was from an abusive home and it helped her get a handle on it all. I only found that out way later on. She’s one of my best black belts now…and a dear friend.

She was at college one day and a guy knocked the daylights out of a girl nearby and she stepped in and when he drew back to hit my friend, she dropped him with a single strike, then checked him to make sure it wasn’t serious, (she’s an paramedic. ) then told him to “get somewhere”. She was thanked by both the girl and a nearby college staffer. She blew it off…

None of us are movie type heroes, but we don’t walk out the door worrying unduly about someone messing with us. Breaking into our house would be a close encounter of the worst kind for someone, but we’re some of nicest guys we know… (no bias there…out of the 5 of us 2 are black belts (1-1st and 1-2nd degree…the other two are just short of black belt. My beloved is just a dojo mom.There oughtta be a belt for that…)

Thanks again…you’ve all been really helpful

Do itashimash’te. (You’re welcome, it’s nothing.):bowdown2:

 

[Church_Militant]

I really wish you could edit your posts…

You can…w/in 20 minutes.

anyway one other q on the kubotan it says even if taken away from you…it can’t be used unless they also know how to use it. Is that true? Seems that anyone could swing it and hit with keys or whatever even if they don’t have knowledge on the pressure points. I just want to make sure after I take the self defense classes if I get this…it would be smart, not be something like pepper spray that may or may not work in all instances. Another thing I don’t like about spray is the accuracy that you have to have to be effective, I’m guessing once your students completed the class they didn’t have the need for the spray or is that 1st line of defense and the hand defense is second?

One thing about it is that if someone sees that kubatan on your keys it sends a silent message that you have some training in self defense and can actually be a deterrent because as the man said… you don’t send a “victim signal”.

Most such attackers are looking for a victim…not an opponent.

BTW, if you walk or jog…go to WalMart or someplace and get a 1/2" or 5/8" closet dowel about 3 feet long and carry it as a “dog stick”…sends the silent signal again, and you never have to say whether the “dog” has 2 or 4 feet.

Did you have people through the years that really didn’t think they could do this (can’t kick high enough for one thing) and totally surprised themselves?

I’ve seen some folks in their 60s plus train alongside me and I sure wouldn’t’ve messed with them.

The truth is that if you are in a self defense situation and kick higher than groin high you are crazy. It’s not necessary. I’ll kick 'em in the head…after they are down and trying to get up.

I fool around a bit with tae bo…probably laughable in comparison, but that’s the thing that gets me is the kicks.

Gotta warm up, and in SD never aim a kick higher than the groin. Use your knees, elbows, fingertips, forearms, feet and common sense…it’s not how high you kick…it’s where and the force that you generate with proper technique. Billy Blanks used to be a pretty bad dude kickboxer, so he fought well that I saw. His technique should be pretty good.

Keep your kicks low…train to target shins, knees, instep, groin…and work those knee strikes.

Think self-defense…that’s key.

 

[Church_Militant]

Okay Church Militant

I promise to stop being a pest…but in my quest of researching this.

Can you explain what is really the difference between tae kwon do and kenpo? Would one be preferred over the other?

No problem…

TKD is a martial sport developed by a Korean general many years ago. It is predominately a kicking art that has some really impressive high kicks with jumps and stuff like that. Most of the folks I know in TKD are decent folks.

Kenpo (also sometimes called Kempo) is a Okinawan/Japanese martial art that is known for it’s self defense work. They are strong and fast and you do not want to get into hand range with them. They borrow from both Japanese and Chinese techniques and generally are pretty nice folks.

I called a local place…in fact my son went there and they don’t offer SD “per se” he said it’s part of the teaching in general, this would be the tae kwon do place. The other place is a much further drive (but I’d do it for quality) that would be the kenpo after SD 8 week training

. I’m also thinking of possibly taking the SD at further place then pick up reg classes at tae kwon do…but I don’t know if one form is more desirable. Also, the instructor/owner for TKD is a 5th degree black belt…**and the kenpo is a 3rd degree…however he trains police officers. It seems kenpo would be more practical and user friendly since I’m not super limber at this point. Also if I’m doing this…are the videos you mentioned still useful…or is this def better?**Do understand… I trained for about 14 years in a Japanese style, so I am somewhat(? ) prejudiced I suspect that the Kenpo classes will be more what you are looking for. the SD classes will probably be enough and yes the video & book will still be handy.

I’m thinking perhaps God is preparing me for something down the road…maybe not an attacker down the road but maybe something in the hospital setting…I’ve learned to never doubt where God is leading…but I’m trying hard to not be afraid of that!

It certainly is a possibility. There are of course those times when a patient gets crazy or combative. you don’t wanna have to hurt 'em, but ya also don’t wanna get hurt.

Oh, and I know you can edit post with in 20min…but either I can’t get back to the post fast enough or the thought didn’t come to me yet! Again, I don’t mean to keep adding more and more to this…but I thought it may be easier in case you see this over the weekend to just get all my answers.

TIA

Not to worry…it’s all good.