Communal Penance

[PiusXIII]

My aunt refuses to go to confession saying she will wait closer to Christmas so she can go to “Communal penance” and not have to confess her sins to a priest. I tried to tell her that communal penance doesn’t get her off the hook from confessing but she says that confessions are old-fashioned and pre-vatican II (evidenced partially by the fact that some parishes in this diocese don’t even have confessions regularly). How can I show her that she needs to confess to a priest?

 

[palmas85]

PiusXIII:

My aunt refuses to go to confession saying she will wait closer to Christmas so she can go to “Communal penance” and not have to confess her sins to a priest. I tried to tell her that communal penance doesn’t get her off the hook from confessing but she says that confessions are old-fashioned and pre-vatican II (evidenced partially by the fact that some parishes in this diocese don’t even have confessions regularly). How can I show her that she needs to confess to a priest?

I thought that group reconciliation services counted as a valid confession. Was I wrong? I’ve never done one, but I thought they were valid.

 

[JimG]

Communal Penance services are valid, but communal penance services must, (except for highly unlikely and extraordinary circumstances) include individual private confessions. Every communal penance service I’ve ever attended had private individual confessions as an essential part of it.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

palmas85:

I thought that group reconciliation services counted as a valid confession. Was I wrong? I’ve never done one, but I thought they were valid.

Yes, there’s provisions for it in canon law. Sometimes this is done illicitly:

See here:

FATHER TRIGILIO RESPONDS TO QUESTIONS ABOUT COMMUNAL PENANCE SERVICES
ewtn.com/library/DOCTRINE/COMMUNAL.TXT

 

[palmas85]

JimG:

Communal Penance services are valid, but communal penance services must, (except for highly unlikely and extraordinary circumstances) include individual private confessions. Every communal penance service I’ve ever attended had private individual confessions as an essential part of it.

Does that mean that everyone attending a communal service has to confess privately? That would seem to negate the need for a service altogether. I mean why have the communal service if everyone has to confess individually?

I’m more confused now then before.

 

[Confiteor]

palmas85:

Does that mean that everyone attending a communal service has to confess privately? That would seem to negate the need for a service altogether. I mean why have the communal service if everyone has to confess individually?

I’m more confused now then before.

There is no need for it if people go on their own and the priests make themselves available throughout the year. Frankly, I don’t sin only the week before the semiannual penance services. I think these services just encourage people to receive the Eucharist sacrilegiously 90% of the year. If you don’t have serious sin on your soul, you don’t need to go to confession at all. The twice a year bit is just sending the wrong signal.

Some people like the “communal” part and find value in it. In my parish, the communal penance services are a bit of a circus…lots of priests hearing confessions out in the open --not a lot of privacy-- and after confession people are sometimes asked to go to the front of the church and exchange a sign of reconciliation with whomever also just finished their penance. This part struck me as particularly contrived.

 

[JimG]

palmas85:

Does that mean that everyone attending a communal service has to confess privately? That would seem to negate the need for a service altogether. I mean why have the communal service if everyone has to confess individually?

I’m more confused now then before.

Some people like to go to communal penance services, because there are often a number of priests hearing confessions, not just the parish priests. The communal service starts with a few prayers led by a priest, possibly followed by an examination of conscience, and often there is a “communal” penance–that is, everyone gets the same penance. Then there is individual confession. The service ends either with a communal prayer & penance, or it ends with the individual confessions.

 

[Elzee]

JimG:

Some people like to go to communal penance services, because there are often a number of priests hearing confessions, not just the parish priests. The communal service starts with a few prayers led by a priest, possibly followed by an examination of conscience, and often there is a “communal” penance–that is, everyone gets the same penance. Then there is individual confession. The service ends either with a communal prayer & penance, or it ends with the individual confessions.

This is close to how it is in my parish. Starts off with a song, scripture readings, a short ‘homily’, a time for examination of conscience, individual confessions - usually different stations within the church or conference rooms, followed by a ‘multiple choice’ penance - these are usually flyers passed out when you enter the church stating what your chices are. They can vary from prayers, to community service work, to writing letters to hospital patients or prisoners.

 

[msproule]

It is incorrect to hold to the idea that a communal penance service absolves one of their sins. I would guess that almost everybody present at such a service does not meet the criteria necessary to validly receive absolution. Sadly, this is misunderstood by far too many Catholics, including clergy.

From Canon Law:Can. 961 §1. Absolution cannot be imparted in a general manner to many penitents at once without previous individual confession unless:

1/ danger of death is imminent and there is insufficient time for the priest or priests to hear the confessions of the individual penitents;

2/ there is grave necessity, that is, when in view of the number of penitents, there are not enough confessors available to hear the confessions of individuals properly within a suitable period of time in such a way that the penitents are forced to be deprived for a long while of sacramental grace or holy communion through no fault of their own. Sufficient necessity is not considered to exist when confessors cannot be present due only to the large number of penitents such as can occur on some great feast or pilgrimage.

Can. 962 §1. For a member of the Christian faithful validly to receive sacramental absolution given to many at one time, it is required not only that the person is properly disposed but also at the same time intends to confess within a suitable period of time each grave sin which at the present time cannot be so confessed.

I have never been to one of these services, nor do I ever expect to. Individual confession is too readily available (At least fifty-two times a year rather than two).

 

[itsjustdave1988]

palmas85:

Does that mean that everyone attending a communal service has to confess privately? That would seem to negate the need for a service altogether. I mean why have the communal service if everyone has to confess individually?

I’m more confused now then before.

I think if you reviewed the rite, you would see for yourself the benefits.

See here:

RITE FOR RECONCILIATION OF SEVERAL PENITENTS WITH INDIVIDUAL CONFESSION AND ABSOLUTION
gm.la-archdiocese.org/Archbishop/LentpenanceWorshipAid.htm

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Confiteor:

There is no need for it if people go on their own and the priests make themselves available throughout the year.

You make it sound as if it is one or the other. I go to confession once a month, but also participate in the RITE FOR RECONCILIATION OF SEVERAL PENITENTS WITH INDIVIDUAL CONFESSION AND ABSOLUTION. The Rite is typically done during Lent at my parish.

 

[Confiteor]

itsjustdave1988:

You make it sound as if it is one or the other. I go to confession once a month, but also participate in the RITE FOR RECONCILIATION OF SEVERAL PENITENTS WITH INDIVIDUAL CONFESSION AND ABSOLUTION. The Rite is typically done during Lent at my parish.

That’s certainly laudable, but the “need” is to go when one has unconfessed serious sin. And PRIOR to receiving communion unworthily. The 1 or 2x a year thing has mostly to do with the expectation that hordes of people will be present at Mass on Christmas and Easter. It encourages the practice of many to only seek confession once or twice a year, even when it is done properly with individual confessions and absolutions. Personally, I prefer the regular confession times even if it is at another parish…at the “services” it always seems like a big rush to get in line and a long wait for a not very private confession. (Most are out in the open, even in front (& elevated) next to the altar.)

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Confiteor:

That’s certainly laudable, but the “need” is to go when one has unconfessed serious sin.

And this rite gives another rather visible opportunity to fulfill that need. Yet, that kind of need is only when we “must” go, but there are times when we “should” go. And as such, I believe the real “need” is more frequent than than merely when we “must” go. If we have no mortal sins on our conscience, it is still likely that you have venial sins to confess, and the real need for spiritual direction. I believe we need to go to the Sacrament frequently, not just when you “must” go. The Sacrament conveys grace *ex opere operato, *and when the recipient is properly disposed remits all sin, mortal and venial, and the spiritual direction can make a saint ever more saintly.

 

[aurora77]

I think your aunt will be surprised when she still has to confess to a priest. We had a communal penance service this week–6 priests were there. We had communal prayer (like Elzee described) and individual confessions. The only thing I didn’t like about it was the line for my pastor was so long, I ended up with a different priest. I think I’m the type who needs to go to the same confessor each time.

What is this about literal communal penance? In this service and others I’ve been to, the priest gave each person their own penance. Of course, I could’ve gotten the same one as the person before me, but we didn’t a get a choice.

 

[Confiteor]

itsjustdave1988:

And this rite gives another rather visible opportunity to fulfill that need. Yet, that kind of need is only when we “must” go, but there are times when we “should” go. And as such, I believe the real “need” is more frequent than than merely when we “must” go. If we have no mortal sins on our conscience, it is still likely that you have venial sins to confess, and the real need for spiritual direction. I believe we need to go to the Sacrament frequently, not just when you “must” go. The Sacrament conveys grace *ex opere operato, *and when the recipient is properly disposed remits all sin, mortal and venial, and the spiritual direction can make a saint ever more saintly.

Agreed…I just think the special services send the wrong message…they might lead a few people to more frequent confession, but most view them as a sort of 1-2x annual safety net. It would be great if everyone sought it out more often as you obviously do. (Me too!)