Communicating with Protestants

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Many times people are driven from the Church by Catholics who live the Christian life poorly. The presence of sin is used to justify leaving the Church. We all know people who witnessed sin and fled the Church. Unforunately, human nature being what it is, the people in the church down the street carry the same seeds of evil they thought they left behind. We have a responsibility in this regard… People outside the Church should look at us and want what we have, not want to run from it. So, while protestants make their own choices, we all have a positive role to play in building the Church or tearing it down.

Yes and it doesn’t just apply to Catholics. I don’t need to tell about the poor behaviour of (some) televangelists.

Good works cannot proceed from some desire to be the best person we can (for ourselves?). They come from a heart that is being changed, by a mind that is being daily renewed in the image of Christ. Scripture says we are being changed from one degree of glory to another. It makes sense that we cannot go from glory to glory until we have experienced the author and finisher of our faith, Jesus Christ for ourselves. By that I am not referring to a ritual. The ritual is only outward. Jewish scholars and priests were great at doing rituals, but Jesus described them as whitewashed walls, making clean the outside of the cup, when all the time it was unclean within. We cannot ritualise being cleansed, which comes from a true and spontaneous repentence and a heart open to the Spirit of God. All this can only begin by a walk with the Saviour and continue in the same way. Salvation, that is a legal position, not by works lest any of us should boast. We cannot be changed unless jesus changes us. But that requires a full surrender to him on a daily basis.
 
Tony_Anastasis said:
Yes and it doesn’t just apply to Catholics. I don’t need to tell about the poor behaviour of (some) televangelists.

Good works cannot proceed from some desire to be the best person we can (for ourselves?). They come from a heart that is being changed, by a mind that is being daily renewed in the image of Christ. Scripture says we are being changed from one degree of glory to another. It makes sense that we cannot go from glory to glory until we have experienced the author and finisher of our faith, Jesus Christ for ourselves. By that I am not referring to a ritual. The ritual is only outward. Jewish scholars and priests were great at doing rituals, but Jesus described them as whitewashed walls, making clean the outside of the cup, when all the time it was unclean within. We cannot ritualise being cleansed, which comes from a true and spontaneous repentence and a heart open to the Spirit of God. All this can only begin by a walk with the Saviour and continue in the same way. Salvation, that is a legal position, not by works lest any of us should boast. We cannot be changed unless jesus changes us. But that requires a full surrender to him on a daily basis.
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We would agree for the most part. We can not become Christlike through -merely- ritualizing our faith. But, (and you may agree with this I don’t know) Catholicism and other Christian denominations recognize the value in aligning one’s will and actions with God, through His grace. One way this manifests itself is in full, conscious, and active participation in worship (liturgy), as well as in works of charity and other necessary ways of the Christian life. The physical part of it is not in itself the substance, but the physical signs reveal an underlying reality or grace. Jesus himslef was an observant Jew, which would have entailed more than his simply claiming spiritual sonship with the Father. It also involved worship and ritual, such as His baptism. By the way, how cool is that, the savior of the world, who needs no sign or sanctification, participates in the ceremony of baptism! And He also observes the Passover. Rather that merely saying “I am the One, worship me” He fully participates in worship: body, mind, soul, divinity.

When you speak of salvation, if you are saying that the means of salvation consist of a personal realtionship with Jesus, I disagree somewhat, or let me see if I can add to it. You and I both stand on a foundation. Christ became part of the physical world as a human being, to begin His work of salvation that intimately involves humanity as a family. The covenants are not made just with individuals, but with us as a family of unique individuals. While you and I both desire and need a personal relationship with Jesus, we do not depend solely on our own reasoning and power to discover Him. He does not fall into our lap by sheer accident, or ardent scientific endeavor. You and I have a family history which helps form us in Jesus Christ, people who have been there and done that, to borrow a phrase. I owe some obedience (listening) to that,because frankly, people waaaayyy more gifted than I have been preaching and teaching these last 2000 years. We have both an immediate family and a faith family. Parenthood is a huge responsibility!!
 
The source of the difficulty that I have communicating with Protestants is all the Reformation-era propaganda that is a deeply-fixed part of our culture. Protestants believe this ****.

Also:
(a) there is a strong economic motivation for Protestant ministers to misinform their flocks about Catholicism (and about Protestantism). Keep them ignorant and they stay.

(b) American culture is essentially anti-Catholic, and this supports the ugly prejudices buried in many Protestants. Their ears are stopped and their hearts are stubborn.

(c) it’s so much easier to be Protestant, since most Protestant denominations believe or allow people to follow Hollywood moral norms. The Protestant churches seem able to bend in any direction, and permit anything, just so no one is unhappy or stressed or makes a frown. (see, “economic incentive” above).

(d) Protestants spend a lot of money on themselves, keeping the congregation happy with events, picnics, parties and so forth. The keying in on social aspects is a real strength there.
 
Whenever anyone approaches me and asks “are you saved?,” or “do you know Jesus?;” I always like to respond with; “YES and YES! Jesus is at Mass every Sunday, and through the devine beauty of my Catholic faith, He has become the cornerstone of my life!” Maybe we should try turning the tables on these people, yoke their enthusiasm, and nudge them in the right direction.
 
Interesting thread.

Personally, If '** ARE YOU SAVED? comes up**? ’ to me.
I Would Say, ***By God’s grace if & when I get to Heaven, THEN I can tell you. *
** Right now I’m picking up my cross! I must die daily , we’re in this for the long haul, and we have to persevere, lest we lose our soul! To whom much is given, much is expected.

Basically, I will have to say, I’ll know for sure, when I AM DEAD!

I also like your statements. i tell them, while mentally forming the image of Jesus on the Cross, Yes, I’m covered by the Blood of the Lamb, who was crucified for my sins, rose from the dead, and ascended into Heaven. By the Blood of the Lamb I live ‘saved’ and I recall this with each Mass I attend.

Or you can go through the “Apostle’s Creed” line by line – that is what we as Catholics ‘believe’; it defines why we are saved. They can’t do anything but agree with those beliefs when you say it SLOWLY, line by line…ask them, do you believe this? (next line, do you believe this… Good, we agree…then I’m saved just like you?) They will say they believe they are saved by the Blood of the Lamb, well so ARE you…
 
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jflare29:
While some Protestant denominations believe in the Trinity, some don’t.
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Not to get off the subject, but what Protestant denom doesn’t believe in the Trinity?
 
Whilst credal statements form a near-perfect basis for teaching, not every grain of wheat that falls onto the soil has a desire to spark into life and thrive and grow. Every individual human heart has a free will, Consequently not everybody calling themself a protestant or a catholic will be saved, regardless of who was baptised and when. Many who are destined for eternity, don’t yet know themselves to be, because they have not been taught that they can be in the here and now**. Being saved is by taking hold of christ and refusing substitutes.

Substitutes are what we lamely use instead of partaking of the Holy Spirit. I don’t know what you call them, but we call them ‘dead religion’. With the Paraclete every duty can become a joy, no need for gritted teeth. But we don’t obtain him and his graces until we first really take hold of Jesus.

Knowing all about Jesus is only the first step.At the end of the day, its what we each one of us did about Him. No priest or pastor stands in your place before the Judgement throne, neither do our education, our families or the saints. Only Christ is able to do that for us. So what did we do about him? Were we whole hearted about taking up our cross for him on a daily basis? Did we try for a time and fall down and stay down, or did we reach out for his grace to rise up and continue the growing-in-God adventure?

** I John 5:13

Douay-Rheims Bible
These things I write to you, that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God.
 
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