Communicating with Protestants

[Veridical16]

i can’t remember who posted this, but i do agree that when they ask “are you saved” it is in a self congratulatory or boasting manner. like they are so sure they are saved, but are asking us in an accusing way that we (meaning Catholics, episcopalians or anglicans)
aren’t.

Ya, that was me!

I got carried away regarding my problem with the “Are you Saved?” questions.

I won’t go into too much details but one friend of a friend, got shunned by a born again, because they weren’t *“Saved” *

there is definitely a litle friction between myself and the other person i am communicating with if they are a protestant - at least if we are discussing any religious doctrine, not necessarily everyday discussions.

You are right, unfortunately there is this unavoidable friction with the more convinced Non-Catholics…
I personally don’t like to jump into talking the nitty-gritty with non-Catholic Christians. IF I see the non-Catholic is open to discussing commonalities or curious about a certain Catholic belief that’s fine, because it means they’re not opposed.
Otherwise, I kind of keep my mouth shut prudently. If it might be one of those “shake the dust off our feet” situations. I do have this urge/temptation though to say…*" …you need to be part of the Church Christ founded on Peter!! " * But prayers are probably better in the mean time, it would be nice to one day by the grace of God be like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Theresa or Blessed Mother Teresa…

In the mean time, there are other ways of evangelizing the Catholic faith, without spelling it out to the people who have some barriers.

For instance, there are times when I 've encountered a former Catholic who attacked the Church without attacking it, by spouting off things he didn’t know what he was talking about, but I had to be polite with them and I mentioned some stuff defending the Faith, and the Blessed Mother because I felt I had to…

 

[PJM]

=jflare29;8163085]Today I’ve had a rather unusual experience that’s got me thinking hard about my Catholic faith and I’d like to invite some comment.
To make a long story short, I’ve managed to get myself “kicked off” Catholic Lane today; I and Ms. Kochan, the senior editor, disagreed vigorously about…something. I’m still not entirely sure what I said that she didn’t like, but that’s not something I can address right now. The argument stems from argument regarding how we ought to address Protestant concerns.
Keep in mind, after reviewing some of Ms. Kochan’s other writings, I admit I insinualted something about her character in a way that I shouldn’t. My apologies to Ms. Kochan on that count. I didn’t state my case as well as I might.

The exchange has me thinking more deeply about how I or others interact with Protestants though.

Many of us have heard questions like, “Have you been saved?” or “Do you know Jesus?” or something similar. I’ve always been rather flummoxed with those; I’ve usually been inclined to say, “I’m Catholic”, and assume that says it all. Beings I’ve never felt that’d accomplish much, I’ve usually just murmured something inconsequential and allowed the moment to pass.
I’ve heard that we ought to answer “Yes”, or something equally brief, or we ought to say “Christ” more often, but I’ve never felt comfortable with those answers. Today, I have cause to contemplate why.

As I consider the question, I find I can’t readily say “yes” or something similar in good conscience because…that’s not what I believe in. Our respective faith traditions don’t teach quite the same things about God, about Christ, about the Holy Spirit, or even about the sacraments.
I don’t believe I’ve been saved. Not yet. I’m not dead yet, so I’m still a work in progress.

If I tell a person that I’ve been saved because I understand the origin of the question, isn’t it possible that I’ve allowed myself to become culpable of neglect? I know very well what HE, the Protestant means, but if I don’t believe what he believes, shouldn’t I technically say “No”? After the average Protestant recovers from that shock and wishes to “save” me or tell me about his friend Jesus, do I wait for him to finish? Or do I tell him that I’m Catholic and don’t believe half the doctrine he’s trying to propose?
How can I do any of these things without taking a serious risk of offending the person or boring them?

I believe in God, my Lord and Savior; I believe in Christ, his Son, our Lord, who died on the cross to transform me into being able to accept his grace. I believe in the Holy Spirit, who tugs everlastingly upon my conscience and soul to lead back to the Father.

While some Protestant denominations believe in the Trinity, some don’t. I’m not sure I can answer some of their questions in a manner they’ll understand without inherently either neglecting something…or leaving them bored or aggravated with something they’ve never believed.

So how do I answer these questions?

I’m stumped.

I never took Phyc 101

But the answer to “Are you saved” is someting along these lines.

Yes I am Thank-you. I AM saved and because salvation is an ongoing process I am still in the process of being saved."

Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

**1 Peter 1: 17 **“Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

**John 3:5 ** “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

James 2: 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? **So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. **

As a basic rule NEVER debate without KNOWING the FACTS. Like you say: we can’t explain what we our selves don’t understand. Just say someting like I;m not absolutely sure. Can I get back to you? Then STUDY the issue or discuss it here and THEN DO GET BACK TO THEM when you are qualified to discuss the issue.

Memorize a couple of these,

Hope you work out your differences. It would be chairitable to offer a face to face apology:thumbsup:

God Bless,
Pat

 

[7_Sorrows]

Ya, that was me!

I got carried away regarding my problem with the “Are you Saved?” questions.

I won’t go into too much details but one friend of a friend, got shunned by a born again, because they weren’t *“Saved” *

You are right, unfortunately there is this unavoidable friction with the more convinced Non-Catholics…
I personally don’t like to jump into talking the nitty-gritty with non-Catholic Christians. IF I see the non-Catholic is open to discussing commonalities or curious about a certain Catholic belief that’s fine, because it means they’re not opposed.
Otherwise, I kind of keep my mouth shut prudently. If it might be one of those “shake the dust off our feet” situations. I do have this urge/temptation though to say…*" …you need to be part of the Church Christ founded on Peter!! " * But prayers are probably better in the mean time, it would be nice to one day by the grace of God be like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Theresa or Blessed Mother Teresa…

In the mean time, there are other ways of evangelizing the Catholic faith, without spelling it out to the people who have some barriers.

For instance, there are times when I 've encountered a former Catholic who attacked the Church without attacking it, by spouting off things he didn’t know what he was talking about, but I had to be polite with them and I mentioned some stuff defending the Faith, and the Blessed Mother because I felt I had to…

maybe there will be some protestants who will see this thread and see themselves in what we are claiming! maybe they don’t know how they come across.

 

[PJM]

=SherylPatton;8164951]I’m sorry, that must be so difficult for you. My husband is not in the church, and as of now he doesn’t want me to enroll our kids in RCC. I will pray for your sons and their wives/ girlfriend, and for your faith.

May I enquire my friend? Were you married in the CC?

The reason I ask is that in order to be married in the CC, the non-catholic partner MUST agree to raise your children in the Church.

It would be VERY GOOD advice ti MAKE SURE you are fully practicing your Catholic Faith so the kids start to ask questions of you and dad.

I’ll add you to my prayer list. PRAY OFTEN!

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Lucy_1]

May I enquire my friend? Were you married in the CC?

The reason I ask is that in order to be married in the CC, the non-catholic partner MUST agree to raise your children in the Church.

It would be VERY GOOD advice ti MAKE SURE you are fully practicing your Catholic Faith so the kids start to ask questions of you and dad.

I’ll add you to my prayer list. PRAY OFTEN!

God Bless,
Pat

No, we’ve been married 20 years, both Protestant. I am a new convert and my husband is still Protestant with a capital P. Thank you so much for your prayers.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

Today I’ve had a rather unusual experience that’s got me thinking hard about my Catholic faith and I’d like to invite some comment.
To make a long story short, I’ve managed to get myself “kicked off” Catholic Lane today; I and Ms. Kochan, the senior editor, disagreed vigorously about…something. I’m still not entirely sure what I said that she didn’t like, but that’s not something I can address right now. The argument stems from argument regarding how we ought to address Protestant concerns.
Keep in mind, after reviewing some of Ms. Kochan’s other writings, I admit I insinualted something about her character in a way that I shouldn’t. My apologies to Ms. Kochan on that count. I didn’t state my case as well as I might.

The exchange has me thinking more deeply about how I or others interact with Protestants though.

Many of us have heard questions like, “Have you been saved?” or “Do you know Jesus?” or something similar. I’ve always been rather flummoxed with those; I’ve usually been inclined to say, “I’m Catholic”, and assume that says it all. Beings I’ve never felt that’d accomplish much, I’ve usually just murmured something inconsequential and allowed the moment to pass.
I’ve heard that we ought to answer “Yes”, or something equally brief, or we ought to say “Christ” more often, but I’ve never felt comfortable with those answers. Today, I have cause to contemplate why.

As I consider the question, I find I can’t readily say “yes” or something similar in good conscience because…that’s not what I believe in. Our respective faith traditions don’t teach quite the same things about God, about Christ, about the Holy Spirit, or even about the sacraments.
I don’t believe I’ve been saved. Not yet. I’m not dead yet, so I’m still a work in progress.

If I tell a person that I’ve been saved because I understand the origin of the question, isn’t it possible that I’ve allowed myself to become culpable of neglect? I know very well what HE, the Protestant means, but if I don’t believe what he believes, shouldn’t I technically say “No”? After the average Protestant recovers from that shock and wishes to “save” me or tell me about his friend Jesus, do I wait for him to finish? Or do I tell him that I’m Catholic and don’t believe half the doctrine he’s trying to propose?
How can I do any of these things without taking a serious risk of offending the person or boring them?

I believe in God, my Lord and Savior; I believe in Christ, his Son, our Lord, who died on the cross to transform me into being able to accept his grace. I believe in the Holy Spirit, who tugs everlastingly upon my conscience and soul to lead back to the Father.

While some Protestant denominations believe in the Trinity, some don’t. I’m not sure I can answer some of their questions in a manner they’ll understand without inherently either neglecting something…or leaving them bored or aggravated with something they’ve never believed.

So how do I answer these questions?

I’m stumped.

If you are Catholic, we should always Respect otrher denominations, and cover it ALL By: I’m Catholic. Only we Live The Bible and Live it Fully, as Our Lord, our Founder taught us to 2,000 years ago. We are taught to respect everyone. Fully, as God taught, intended. It’s best to answer the questions you Know how to answer. LOL, you can refer them Here, to CAF, for any big Questions, answers. This CAF site and EWTN.Com are excellent sources for research.
Only God decides if we are “Saved”, on Our Death. Only God decides, No Verse or Human. The Chuirch has never saisd Anyone is in Hell, because Only God Knows. We think Our Lord God is so Loving, he cleanses most of us in the Purgibg Place (Purgatory) Berfore letting us CLEAN into Heaven: St Paul speaks of cleansing ‘as if by fire’; 1 Machabees OT speaks of Jewish Warriors Praying fotr their Dead Brothers, fallen in battle., etc., etc.

                                                                                                                      :bible1:  We   1.3  Billion  Roman   and Orthodox Catholics    Prastice, Live the  same    7  Sacraments Our Lord  gave us,   and the  Last  Supper Feast  (Now  Mass/Divine Liturgy)    with the Real Presence Eucharist  Our Lord     told the Apostes to   do In His Remembrance  1  Corr  11:21-29.  That has been the Essential Liturgy  by the   Apostles  since the Last Supper. Our Lord  Chose the pebble Peter to be The Rock on Which He Built The Church, with  Keys to Heaven to Peter.    Mathew  16:18-19  says it Preciselly    as our Lord Commissioned.  

                                                                                                                     We    1.3  Billion   Catholics    Living Fully Our Lord's teachings, as   our  600 Million  Protestant   brothers  of thousands  of  suasions  try,    since  Mostly  the last  130  Years,   and since the Reformation  of  over 500  years ago.                                            Church  Teaching:       As you   said So Well,  We are Each    a  work in progress;  Only  God   decides  if we are saved.   No one is "Saved",   sinless except  Mary, our Lord's  Mother.

 

[Tony_Anastasis]

As a former member of the FGBMFI (Full Gospel Business Men’s Fellowship International), I had the pleasure to welcome quite a lot of Catholic members ito our local chapter. We had speakers who spoke at our monthly dinners, giving their testimony; this included Catholic laymen, mostly from the business world. The object was to bring along guests who were not members of any faith and to bring them to know God.

At the end of each meeting, there would be an appeal for people to come forward if they wanted to receive salvation through Christ. Often people would stream forward to be spoken to and prayed for. Protestants believe that a person can give their life to Christ in a single moment, perhaps after much soul searching and study, sometimes not. This does not mean that salvation so obtained cannot also be lost if one apostacises (in my personal protestant opinion).

We had several Catholics who I would describe as very devout and filled with the Holy Spirit. There was never any question in my mind that we would all be in heaven together. However, each time there was an appeal to receive salvation, the Catholic laymen would come forward to receive prayer from the speaker.

At the time I couldn’t understand that. Now I think I do. The teaching we received was different from what you received. We for example don’t acknowledge baptismal regeneration. For us baptism is what we are commanded to do once we have experienced regeneration.

I don’t think that we are saved by the correctness of our theology, but by the grace of God. The evidence will be faith, hope and love in our lives. To put it simply, God knows who of us belongs to him and who does not. We are the ones who make it difficult.

 

[Tiber2011]

I am a recent convert from Evangelical to Roman Catholic.

After many conversations with my Catholic friends, I’ve come to the conclusion that most Catholics will humbly say that they “have hope in their salvation” in order to be reverent in front of God. Though they know they are saved…“because hope does not disappoint” Romans 5:5… they still will not announce their salvation before Jesus does.

There will be a judgment day and those who think they are going to waltz up there and say, let me in I’m saved, may be very surprised.

I have had the opportunity to explain this to a staunch Protestant and I felt an absolute melt in her demeanor as she realized the reason behind a Catholic persons pause to the “Are you saved” question.

“So Catholics are not claiming to be saved because they are humble before God.” was her reply. She got it immediately and it gave her something to really think about.

That’s my experience. I hope it helps in some way.

Shelly
icantbelievemylife.com/2011/04/religion-perceptionperspective.html

 

[Edward_H]

I am a recent convert from Evangelical to Roman Catholic.

After many conversations with my Catholic friends, I’ve come to the conclusion that most Catholics will humbly say that they “have hope in their salvation” in order to be reverent in front of God. Though they know they are saved…“because hope does not disappoint” Romans 5:5… they still will not announce their salvation before Jesus does.

There will be a judgment day and those who think they are going to waltz up there and say, let me in I’m saved, may be very surprised.

I have had the opportunity to explain this to a staunch Protestant and I felt an absolute melt in her demeanor as she realized the reason behind a Catholic persons pause to the “Are you saved” question.

“So Catholics are not claiming to be saved because they are humble before God.” was her reply. She got it immediately and it gave her something to really think about.

That’s my experience. I hope it helps in some way.

Shelly
icantbelievemylife.com/2011/04/religion-perceptionperspective.html

Very well said. Humility and self-donating charity is so key to the interior life with God.

Every day we get to begin again. And this is actually able to bring joy to God. What power God gives us!!

 

[Edward_H]

Conversion…

We’ve confused ourselves about conversion. It’s either seen as a scoreboard (Protestants 5, Catholics 3) thing…or a “me and my salvation” thing. I got mine, you get yours. And oh by the way…once I have it…it’s mine. Safe and sound just like an American wants to feel. Done. Once saved, done. Such a typical American view of things.

Think about this.

We shouldn’t ever of course convert for someone else (parent, spouse, etc.) .

But we shouldn’t convert for our own souls, either. This idea may surprise some.

The reason we should convert is because it will bring joy to God. We should convert for the love of God! This should be our first and last motivation. And we should keep on ‘converting’ until our last breath. Spilled out like Christ on the Cross…for love of the Father and His children.

We should come home because it pleases God, our Father.

 

[Steadfast_love]

So how do I answer these questions?

I’m stumped.

When you’re getting started in this sort of thing, it’s best to not invent any new ideas or teaching methods. Just quote Catechisms until you get a sense of the ebb and flow.

Here’s the Catechism of St Pius X. I think it’s an ideal response to the “are you saved” question.

1 Q. Are you a Christian?
A. Yes, I am a Christian, by the grace of God.

2 Q. Why do you say: By the grace of God?
A. I say: By the grace of God, because to be a Christian is a perfectly gratuitous gift of God, which we ourselves could not have merited.

3 Q. Who is a true Christian?
A. A true Christian is he who is baptised, who believes and professes the Christian Doctrine, and obeys the lawful pastors of the Church.

4 Q. What is Christian Doctrine?
A. Christian doctrine is the doctrine which Jesus Christ our Lord taught us to show us the way of salvation.

5 Q. Is it necessary to learn the doctrine taught by Jesus Christ?
A. It certainly is necessary to learn the doctrine taught by Jesus Christ, and those who fail to do so are guilty of a grave breach of duty.

But the more important thing is don’t get worked up. Historicaly Protestants have reason to fear that their denominations might go extinct or splinter or evolve into something unrecognisable and spiritualy they don’t even dare to lay claim to all the charisms Christ gave Peter. But as Catholics it’s unbecomming to get worked up over all that. The Catholic Church has been around ever since Jesus founded it two thousand years ago, and it’s good for a few more thousand. There’s simply no reason for us to experience the same kind of pathos that Protestants feel when they’re asked if they are saved. (Which implicitly means, did you pick the *wrong *denomination?)

 

[peace2u2]

I thank you from the bottom of my heart - I am agonizing over my 2 Protestant daughter in laws who actually dislike the Catholic Church. They seem to go out of their way to point out differences, etc., and, yes, I was disappointed when they both married outside the church. What can I say? It hurt. But I am grateful that they are God-loving women, or so they say. I’m finding myself being sucked down into a battle I don’t fully understand, for I am a weak, weak, Catholic. Sometimes I even question whether there is a God. Please don’t shut me out. I just don’t know what is going on with my faith. Maybe this isn’t the place for this talk, eh? ANyway, I am looking and searching - The third son remains Catholic, although in name only and his girlfriend is Catholic, again, I think only in name. I feel so disconnected from all 6 kids.

Please don’t feel so disconnected and discouraged. Put your trust in Jesus. Perhaps the Lord put these people in your life for a reason…to save souls! The first thing to do is to educate yourself. Read, read and then read some more.

For starters you should be reading and studying the Word of God. If your Parish does not offer a Bible study, go to your Pastor and request one. or you can study on your own, I recommend IGNATUS CATHOLIC STUDY BIBLE NEW TESTAMENT, 2ND EDITION. There is something powerful about sharing with others in a Bible study, just make sure it is being interpreted by someone who is knowledgeable and is an active Catholic and supports the teachings of the Church. Remember, if you deny the Catholic Church, you deny Christ Himself.

Also you should read a little every day from the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 2ND EDITION so you know what the Church teaches.

You could start by reading “SEARCH AND RESCUE”, How to Bring Your Family and Friends into or Back Into the Catholic Church, by Patrick Madrid. There is a reading list at the back of the book, all very good.

And don’t forget sometimes the best way to evangalize in the name of Jesus and for His Church is to just give people reading material or cd’s or music to listen to. Lighthouse Catholic Media has wonderful cd’s on every topic you can think of. I recently listened to “FOR LOVE AND MARRIAGE”, by Johnnette Benkovic. Others that are awesome to listen to or read their books are Peter Kreeft and Scott Hahn who is a Catholic Convert, a former Protestant.

I recommend Sidewalk Prophets and Third Day to evangalize with music. I love everything Third Day writes and sings. Third Day cd’s that I recommend you buy and give to your kids: “Move” and “Offerings II” cd’s. Excellent songs you could download the words and the music, “SOUND OF YOUR VOICE”, “FOLLOW ME THERE”, “SURRENDER”, “TRUST IN JESUS” and “SING A SONG”.

Good luck. And don’t forget to pray to Jesus everyday, all day! He will pour out his blessings to you and your family in ways that you can’t even imagine, just ask the Lord to open your heart to Him and ask Him to use you to love and serve Him and bring His people Home to Him. Peace and Blessings.

 

[fred_conty]

Ah, good.
I do not wish to be disparaging to anyone’s answers, because I’m sure they’re all well intended. I must admit though, a few of these do truly warm my spirit because they seem to truly, fully comprehend the deepest layer of grit to be found in my question.

Sometimes I wonder if I’m doing very well at explaining the extent to the problem.

As a few seem to have understood, I’m not precisely looking for a means to provide a set of Bible quotes to make my case, nor do I precisely wish to use some form of silver bullet answer. Essentially the question really is thus:
How do I, as a Catholic, overcome my own sense of burning disgust with what I, personally, consider a relatively…patronizing question…with charity, clarity, and brevity? How do I help a Protestant understand that such a question, while well intentioned (probably), DOES none-the-less insinuate to me that my Catholic faith has no merit? How do I help a Protestant understand this while still avoiding speaking or behaving as though the Protestant’s faith had no value?
…And how do I do all that without having a near compelling need to take 10 minutes to soothe another person’s (unintentionally) dashed sense of being a valuable human being?

OK, let’s admit that there’re times when I truly do wish I could simply strangle Martin Luther, John Calvin, Zwingly (sp?), and a few others. Tough to tell whether any of them precisely inflicted their errors upon us intentionally, or whether the harm done came about more accurately as, er, collateral damage. I’d say it doesn’t entirely matter after a fashion, the angst I suffer at trying to aid our separated brothers and sisters…hurts either way.

I DO want to mention something fairly important though:
While I believe the Bible DOES teach infallible truth, I’m inclined to be quite wary about quoting it, especially with multiple quotes. Overall, as someone quotes the Bible more and more, they’re prone to commit at least one of a few possible errors:

1. Misquoting or misinterpreting what the author actually wrote or intended to write
2. Using the Bible not as a teaching tool, but as more of a big lawgivers book, one that may be using to thump someone upon the head when they don’t change their mind.

Maybe that’s a long-winded way of describing my idea of a bible-thumper.

I genuinely dislike when people do that to me. I’ve come across all manner of biblical quotes, many of them quite short or quite long, but quite pertinent either way.
…And I’ve come across many that don’t seem to comprehend that the quotes they’ve selected…don’t appear to bear the slightest resemblance to a coherent answer to the question!

Hi,
You are a very very very kind wonderful thoughtful person. But…
You are dealing with religious tigers trained to attack if you don’t give them
what they want to hear. If in the first few words out of your mouth are
not “yes” or “I have been saved” then you will not get another fresh idea
spoken until they are finished an hour later when they wave and say
“goodby”. They have gone to school to machinegun you until you are
brain dead because they are convinced that you are going to hell unless
they save you and they perceive you with no more chances left except
them. They are full of good will, God love em.

To simpify matters, you will not get a word in because there are two of
them and only one of you. The more time you spend with them the
deeper it gets. They are not interested in YOUR answers or statements.
They just want to make you doubt in any way they can. They want you
to feel that you are wrong. They are not there for a discussion or to
be ecumenical. Unless someone is an excellent apollogist, as someone
used the phrase on CAF, it is like nailing jello to a tree.

If it were me, “yes I was saved, and thanks for asking.”

 

[AntalKalnoky]

Ah, good.
I do not wish to be disparaging to anyone’s answers, because I’m sure they’re all well intended. I must admit though, a few of these do truly warm my spirit because they seem to truly, fully comprehend the deepest layer of grit to be found in my question.

Sometimes I wonder if I’m doing very well at explaining the extent to the problem.

As a few seem to have understood, I’m not precisely looking for a means to provide a set of Bible quotes to make my case, nor do I precisely wish to use some form of silver bullet answer. Essentially the question really is thus:
How do I, as a Catholic, overcome my own sense of burning disgust with what I, personally, consider a relatively…patronizing question…with charity, clarity, and brevity? How do I help a Protestant understand that such a question, while well intentioned (probably), DOES none-the-less insinuate to me that my Catholic faith has no merit? How do I help a Protestant understand this while still avoiding speaking or behaving as though the Protestant’s faith had no value?
…And how do I do all that without having a near compelling need to take 10 minutes to soothe another person’s (unintentionally) dashed sense of being a valuable human being?

OK, let’s admit that there’re times when I truly do wish I could simply strangle Martin Luther, John Calvin, Zwingly (sp?), and a few others. Tough to tell whether any of them precisely inflicted their errors upon us intentionally, or whether the harm done came about more accurately as, er, collateral damage. I’d say it doesn’t entirely matter after a fashion, the angst I suffer at trying to aid our separated brothers and sisters…hurts either way.

I DO want to mention something fairly important though:
While I believe the Bible DOES teach infallible truth, I’m inclined to be quite wary about quoting it, especially with multiple quotes. Overall, as someone quotes the Bible more and more, they’re prone to commit at least one of a few possible errors:

1. Misquoting or misinterpreting what the author actually wrote or intended to write
2. Using the Bible not as a teaching tool, but as more of a big lawgivers book, one that may be using to thump someone upon the head when they don’t change their mind.

Maybe that’s a long-winded way of describing my idea of a bible-thumper.

I genuinely dislike when people do that to me. I’ve come across all manner of biblical quotes, many of them quite short or quite long, but quite pertinent either way.
…And I’ve come across many that don’t seem to comprehend that the quotes they’ve selected…don’t appear to bear the slightest resemblance to a coherent answer to the question!

(1) The Bible is Not the “Infallible Truth”; Nowhere does the Bible even say that. The Quote is [SIGN] [SIGN]1 Timothty 3:15[/SIGN]: The Truth is in the Church Elders: The Apostles then, the Church Magesterium and Pope now. [/SIGN]

                                                                                                                      (2)  When   asked if you  "Are Saved",  answer [SIGN]** ONLY  GOD  **decides that.  ;  no  Verse  or  teaching  does;  That is   Catholic Teaching  of  Christ,   also in the Bible,  as Everything  Catholic Is.  Only  We Live the Bible Fully,  as  God  intended,  not humans suggest.  We  are  a  'work  in progress',  until   Death.  The  Church has Never said Anyone  has gone to Hell;  Not  ever;  Only  God Knows.     [/SIGN]

                                                                                                                       (3)  The Church  teaches  always   Respect   Others  and Other Faiths,  as Incomlete  and confused  as they may be.  Arguing,  attacking Never Works,  as You  so well know   and practise.    

                                                                                                                       (4)   Every  single  Question/attack they have is   Answered  Strongly in The Bible:  Purgatory, Infant  Baptism,  Peter  is THE  ROCK  upon  which  Christ  built the Church;  his  original name  was little  pebble:  Cephas  and Cephos.     You  can look  up  Any  Issue here, or Invite  your Protestand friends to  "Tell  Us"  they're  taught  viewpoint,  ask  what  we are "Taught."  (We  can give Innumerable  Bible  Quotes,  and have the Common  sense and Historic  answers.)  

                                                                                                                       Or take  a couple of  Issues, like  Born Again,  Being Saved,  and look them up Here  or  EWTN.com.  There  are No  Issue   we  can  not  Answer  and Document    Fully, ideally.  Only  men's  ideas  suggest  guaranteed  Saved,  and No  Hell  possible.  

                                                                                                                     Good to remind them respectfully that The Bible  was not  written in English   30  years  ago,  and Martin Luther Removed  7  Books,  and  Removed  "And Works"    are ye saved  from Romans:   "Faith alone".                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           :dancing::highprayer::blessyou:

 

[AntalKalnoky]

Good to hit the 2 Big Nails on the head (Humerously, thoughtfully if possible) (1) and (2) above! everything else is an opinion. of men: [SIGN]being Saved: best Catholic Search!![/SIGN], etc., etc. We Are Saved again in Every Sacrament of Christ! The Church Is the Living Christ on Earth: evey detail, Biblical also. :bible1: :aok:

 

[Tony_Anastasis]

Today I’ve had a rather unusual experience that’s got me thinking hard about my Catholic faith and I’d like to invite some comment.
To make a long story short, I’ve managed to get myself “kicked off” Catholic Lane today; I and the senior editor disagreed vigorously about…something. I’m still not entirely sure what I said that she didn’t like, but that’s not something I can address right now. The argument stems from argument regarding how we ought to address Protestant concerns.
Keep in mind, after reviewing some of the editor’s other writings, I admit I insinualted something about her character in a way that I shouldn’t. My apologies to the editor on that count. I didn’t state my case as well as I might.

The exchange has me thinking more deeply about how I or others interact with Protestants though.

Many of us have heard questions like, “Have you been saved?” or “Do you know Jesus?” or something similar. I’ve always been rather flummoxed with those; I’ve usually been inclined to say, “I’m Catholic”, and assume that says it all. Beings I’ve never felt that’d accomplish much, I’ve usually just murmured something inconsequential and allowed the moment to pass.
I’ve heard that we ought to answer “Yes”, or something equally brief, or we ought to say “Christ” more often, but I’ve never felt comfortable with those answers. Today, I have cause to contemplate why.

As I consider the question, I find I can’t readily say “yes” or something similar in good conscience because…that’s not what I believe in. Our respective faith traditions don’t teach quite the same things about God, about Christ, about the Holy Spirit, or even about the sacraments.
I don’t believe I’ve been saved. Not yet. I’m not dead yet, so I’m still a work in progress.

If I tell a person that I’ve been saved because I understand the origin of the question, isn’t it possible that I’ve allowed myself to become culpable of neglect? I know very well what HE, the Protestant means, but if I don’t believe what he believes, shouldn’t I technically say “No”? After the average Protestant recovers from that shock and wishes to “save” me or tell me about his friend Jesus, do I wait for him to finish? Or do I tell him that I’m Catholic and don’t believe half the doctrine he’s trying to propose?
How can I do any of these things without taking a serious risk of offending the person or boring them?

I believe in God, my Lord and Savior; I believe in Christ, his Son, our Lord, who died on the cross to transform me into being able to accept his grace. I believe in the Holy Spirit, who tugs everlastingly upon my conscience and soul to lead back to the Father.

While some Protestant denominations believe in the Trinity, some don’t. I’m not sure I can answer some of their questions in a manner they’ll understand without inherently either neglecting something…or leaving them bored or aggravated with something they’ve never believed.

So how do I answer these questions?

I’m stumped.

I think that your problem is never going to go away. Protestants became convinced about their faith, they would say, through the action of the Holy Spirit, the interaction of Christians in their lives and some reading of the Bible. Evangelicals, at least, do not believe they can be born into the church through infant baptism, but only baptise adults upon their profession of faith. Where they do not agree with you, they probably never realised, until they got into the study of doctrine, often taught in churches. They don’t see Mary as any more than a superb human being that God chose to incarnate him into the world, they don’t see prayer to saints, who depending on individuals’ interpretations are either in a state of bliss far removed from us or fast asleep and awaiting the resurrection, as valid.

They don’t see that one Church has all the answers, but that the truth been given to all who hold to the Nicene creed. They don’t accept that Christ is literally ‘ON the table’, to be sacrificed at each celebration of the mass (Holy Communion) but was sacrificed once for all of us. They insist that as he is indeed risen, it is he who stands invisible ‘AT the table’ offering to us what is figuratively, but not literally his body, as at the last supper and nevertheless take the celebration seriously.

I hope that you can see why they ask if you have been saved, due to their belief that baptism itself cannot save a person who has not confessed Christ, as the risen ascended and glorified saviour.

I do not believe personally that a person is saved through totally correct doctrine, but only by grace through faith and through a genuine, daily renewed confession of Christ and staying in him, as the vine.

I worry that we have lost a lot of what you have that is important, but also that you have seemingly added on things that make no sense to us.

A Catholic with a true assurance that they belong to Christ can say that they are trusting Christ for their salvation. That in my opinion is all you need to say.

 

[Tiber2011]

They don’t see that one Church has all the answers, but that the truth been given to all who hold to the Nicene creed. They don’t accept that Christ is literally ‘ON the table’, to be sacrificed at each celebration of the mass (Holy Communion) but was sacrificed once for all of us. They insist that as he is indeed risen, it is he who stands invisible ‘AT the table’ offering to us what is figuratively, but not literally his body, as at the last supper and nevertheless take the celebration seriously.

Just to be clear… Jesus isn’t “RE-sacrificing” Himself at mass. He offers himself to us through the Eucharist, sacramentally, to strengthen us…through time…until He comes again. The best way I know to explain this to a Protestant is that Jesus royal blood flows through a Catholics veins both spiritually, through repentance and faith believing AND physically by partaking of the last supper each and every mass. Jesus is handing us the “bread/wine” through time. (CCC 1323) He died once and for all AND allows us to partake in the last supper throughout the ages, as He is not confined by time. CCC 1373-1375 CCC 1413

 

[Edward_H]

• God is not limited by space and time
• Jesus’s sacrifice to the Father is ever present to the Father.
• We join this ever present sacrifice at Mass.

 

[Tiber2011]

• God is not limited by space and time
• Jesus’s sacrifice to the Father is ever present to the Father.
• We join this ever present sacrifice at Mass.

Amen.

 

[Tony_Anastasis]

Correction, JWs are not in the slightest interested in the question ‘are you saved’. They are much more interested in you joining their organisation and leaving what they dirisively call ‘Christendom’. They do not have any conception of a person knowing the point in this world where they attained an assurance that they would continue in eternity, rather than be annihilated after the judgement.

There is a good scripture to consider here 1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (12) He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. (13) I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

’

Interesting thread.

Fulton Sheen has said today, you would think many people believe themselves to be Immaculately Conceived!

A good thing to remember is Jesus, implored us to take up our cross…DAILY. And follow him. Seems to me, the first day we believed, until the last day.

Catholic Answers had a show last week on the Q & A with convert, John Martignoni addressing the fact that we can be affirmed and then turn our backs on Jesus, as noted in Peter’s epistle; and one of John’s I believe.
There are many others that mention those who heard the word, the parable of the seeds alludes to this. Also we know that the Demons know who the Lord is, and they tremble. It’s not enough to say Jesus is My Savior. It’s not enough to hear or know the word , but to continue to do the Word.
Personally, If '** ARE YOU SAVED? comes up**? ’ to me.

I Would Say, ***By God’s grace if & when I get to Heaven, THEN I can tell you. ***

Right now I’m picking up my cross! I must die daily , we’re in this for the long haul, and we have to persevere, lest we lose our soul!
To whom much is given, much is expected.

Basically, I will have to say, I’ll know for sure, when I AM DEAD!

We should also follow Jesus’ example. Because they got it all wrong with this insistent and presumptuous “Saved” nonsense. And they continue to mislead people who are innocent and sincere who want to love Jesus, but “I am saved” distracts from Jesus, and self-congratulates SELF for hearing the word. Confidence in Christ! Not overconfidence in one’s ears!

We can possibly follow Jesus’ rabbinic method of returning it with a question of our own?

To point back to Jesus AS THE Word?

Rather, do I believe Jesus is the Christ? son of the Living God, and the source, the WAY to Salvation? do I hear his word, and do I KEEP his word? Do I follow him? And does that require I follow him daily, or do I do whatever I want because I heard the word once? Do I not seek and continue to ask and learn about the TRUTH from…his Church? Where is his Church?

My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me

This verse, may go hand in hand with,
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father

So what of those who say Lord, Lord?? Don’t they share a commonality with the “I am Saved because I know Jesus is God” Is it enough to know?
Or is it enough to do the will of Jesus ONCE! Or persistently??

One should also look at Michael Voris’ video when he was engaging with a Lutheran. It made me laugh!

youtube.com/watch?v=K-U_ijm5r8E

Glad you are home with the Blessed Sacrament, 7 Sorrows. Even though I’m a cradle Catholic – like you, at one point I was lukewarm in my general belief/faith in God.(and I hope that does not scandalize others coming across these comments who have never been lukewarm, I have been humbled by hearing others who have had firmer faith than me in their journey) It’s a shame I didn’t realize how special the Eucharist is. I should have been spending more time with him sooner.

I am often times sad when I think about how there are so many pieces of the baptized wandering outside the Church & scattered ever since Luther & the corrupted Bishops bad wills within the Church caused that large apostasy. I am also sorrowful when I hear about former Catholics leaving for another denomination; we have to pray for them & our Church to be the Salt & Light it is supposed to be so they would turn their heads and see great witnesses of Jesus. If there was more of that they wouldn’t even have gotten lost.
Conversely, I am however really amazed by God, using the broken pieces, and slowly pulling those with fervor and faith within the outside congregations, and bringing THEM back to the Mystical Body & the Blessed Sacrament. I like the many converts testimonies. John 6, really is key for all Christians. What is the point of a sacramental SYMBOLISM to the God who can do ALL things?

On a lighter note, You know your “Are You Saved?” anecdote reminds me of when I was listening to Catholic Answers a year or two ago, and one of the hosts , Patrick Coffin possibly , said he was attending a picnic with a Catholic friend and one of the Born Agains, asked them something like, “oh so you’re Catholic, you know I used to be a Sinner JUST LIKE YOU! " and either the host or his friend, deadpanned, *”. . . What kind of sinner are you now?" *

They said the conversation didn’t go very far after that…