Communing in an Orthodox church

[thequeen]

To these, I will give the same response that I give to my fellow Catholic Student Association memebers at my school when they say things like “That’s not true, you’re allowed to do that, my priest has done it before.”

Just because it’s done doesn’t mean it’s allowed =/

I realize that the ethos factor of these students (who are probably from parishes that do questionable things) is much less than the more experienced Orthodox priests, but even a saint can make a mistake and that can cause scandal eyebrows raised/hesitant look on face

For the Orthodox faithful who are trying to piously and religiously live the faith, I think it’s hurtful to them if they were to find out that Roman Catholics are receiving their Sacraments in the same way that faithful Catholics probably would be if the Orthodox were receiving ours. (People may make comparisons with the Prodigal Son’s brother or with the Workers in the Vineyard who worked all day, but eeek no!).

All that said, I am sure that the Orthodox here would give preference to their own ministers for last rites just as Catholics would for ours and I’m not saying that anyone here would get the ‘other’ priest just because they ‘could’ if they were in such a situation.

I just feel like my confidence would be much more at ease if I just avoid receiving Orthodox Sacraments. That’s my personal piety. I feel like Divine Providence would provide me with what I need at the moment of death (some may say that Divine Providence might provide an Orthodox priest, but that’s not how i personally feel).

I do call Orthodox priests Father, I do cross myself when the Chalice passes by or if I pass an Orthodox church, if I’m in the nave while Confessions are being heard in an Orthodox church, I respect that and listen to the Pslams chanted (I like that), and I’m reverent in their Liturgies like at a Catholic Mass because although their Sacraments and religion may be illegal, they are real Sacraments in my mind nonetheless. I just don’t want to receive them because of Law and not believing their doctrines.

To theQueen, I hope you’re doing better and are recovering well! Prayers for you

Yes I have been cancer free for about18 years now and the members of the Orthodox church were not offended in theIr Bishop giving me the sacraments and they were very good about making me soup as that was about all I could eat However I no longer receive in the Orthodox church as I am able to go to my Catholic Parish now I do sometimes attend the orthodox midweek liturgy sometimes though but I do not receive communion.

 

[Schism_hater]

Unlike the Catholic posters here who say they have no desire to commune in an Orthodox liturgy, and Othodox posters who say the inverse, I have often wished that I could attend both Catholic mass and Orthodox liturgy and communicate in either one. Unfortunately, this is not allowed and I am bound by the rules resulting from the Schism. As a Catholic, I cannot communicate at Divine Liturgy; if I become Orthodox, I will not be able to communicate at a Mass. It causes me much distress. This cannot be God’s will.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Unlike the Catholic posters here who say they have no desire to commune in an Orthodox liturgy, and Othodox posters who say the inverse, I have often wished that I could attend both Catholic mass and Orthodox liturgy and communicate in either one. Unfortunately, this is not allowed and I am bound by the rules resulting from the Schism. As a Catholic, I cannot communicate at Divine Liturgy; if I become Orthodox, I will not be able to communicate at a Mass. It causes me much distress. This cannot be God’s will.

Doesnt the Catholic church allow Orthodox Christians to commune in its churches?

And arent Catholics allowed to commune at Orthodox churches in some circumstances?

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Unlike the Catholic posters here who say they have no desire to commune in an Orthodox liturgy, and Othodox posters who say the inverse, I have often wished that I could attend both Catholic mass and Orthodox liturgy and communicate in either one. Unfortunately, this is not allowed and I am bound by the rules resulting from the Schism. As a Catholic, I cannot communicate at Divine Liturgy; if I become Orthodox, I will not be able to communicate at a Mass. It causes me much distress. This cannot be God’s will.

I agree. Unfortunately, it is the reality we presently live with.

Do you ever attend an eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy?

Doesnt the Catholic church allow Orthodox Christians to commune in its churches?

Yes, but I’m pretty sure their own church says they’re not supposed to. Kind of like how many/most Protestant congregations permit any Christian to receive their communion, but we Catholics - because of our own standards - aren’t supposed to accept this offer.

And arent Catholics allowed to commune at Orthodox churches in some circumstances?

I don’t know the answer to this one, but I’d like to. I await more info from our Orthodox brethren on this forum.

 

[Peter_J]

Doesnt the Catholic church allow Orthodox Christians to commune in its churches?

And arent Catholics allowed to commune at Orthodox churches in some circumstances?

I remember a roommate I had, back in the 90s, who was Anglican. One time he said to me “How come you can receive communion in my church, but I can’t receive communion in your church?” (I can, if necessary, explain what is wrong with this question, but I’m guessing you already know.)

 

[Hesychios]

Unlike the Catholic posters here who say they have no desire to commune in an Orthodox liturgy, and Othodox posters who say the inverse, I have often wished that I could attend both Catholic mass and Orthodox liturgy and communicate in either one. Unfortunately, this is not allowed and I am bound by the rules resulting from the Schism. As a Catholic, I cannot communicate at Divine Liturgy; if I become Orthodox, I will not be able to communicate at a Mass. It causes me much distress. This cannot be God’s will.

I sympathize completely.

 

[MariaGoretti88]

Unlike the Catholic posters here who say they have no desire to commune in an Orthodox liturgy, and Othodox posters who say the inverse, I have often wished that I could attend both Catholic mass and Orthodox liturgy and communicate in either one. Unfortunately, this is not allowed and I am bound by the rules resulting from the Schism. As a Catholic, I cannot communicate at Divine Liturgy; if I become Orthodox, I will not be able to communicate at a Mass. It causes me much distress. This cannot be God’s will.

This is a very sad thing indeed, but it goes to show how important right belief (orthodoxy) is to both Churches in terms of being in communion with God and one another (St. Paul the Apostle writes about this in several places and our Lord prayed about it to His Father).

The way in which the Orthodox receive the Blessed Sacrament is breathtaking and gives me the desire as well, but I trust and know that God will visit me whole and entire through Holy Communion in a Catholic Church, and the Orthodox feel the same about their Mysteries.

I still feel it is unorthodox for anyone to commune in a Church whose doctrines he or she does not accept in full because then it’s no longer really 'Commun"ion the way I see it =/

I’d like to point out to the Catholics here that we do believe that Perfect Contrition (which includes the desire to confess) absolves from every bond of sin and if death were imminent, it would suffice even moreso although I don’t believe any temporal punishment would be remitted per se. Better stock up on some Indulgences!

 

[Peter_J]

This is a very sad thing indeed, but it goes to show how important right belief (orthodoxy) is to both Churches in terms of being in communion with God and one another (St. Paul the Apostle writes about this in several places and our Lord prayed about it to His Father).

Agreed. And, going a step further, this is why it bothers me that I sometimes hear fellow Catholics speak as though doctrinal agreement isn’t needed for sharing the eucharist.

 

[RyanBlack]

I still feel it is unorthodox for anyone to commune in a Church whose doctrines he or she does not accept in full because then it’s no longer really 'Commun"ion the way I see it =/

Then you disagree with the teachings of the Catholic Church herself, since she permits the Orthodox to receive, and allows her own faithful to commune in an Orthodox Church (when access to a Catholic celebration of the Eucharist is not possible) where permission from the Orthodox is given.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Then you disagree with the teachings of the Catholic Church herself, since she permits the Orthodox to receive, and allows her own faithful to commune in an Orthodox Church (when access to a Catholic celebration of the Eucharist is not possible) where permission from the Orthodox is given.

No, she doesn’t disagree with the Catholic Church on this matter. Orthodox are permitted to receive Holy Communion at Catholic Liturgies precisely because, in the eyes of the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church has fully orthodox beliefs.

That’s why they’re not considered to be in heresy. This barrier between us is schism alone.

 

[John_of_Patmos]

I still feel it is unorthodox for anyone to commune in a Church whose doctrines he or she does not accept in full because then it’s no longer really 'Commun"ion the way I see it =/

I

It still is Communion…(Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity).
But I think I know what you mean.

 

[John_of_Patmos]

Unlike the Catholic posters here who say they have no desire to commune in an Orthodox liturgy, and Othodox posters who say the inverse, I have often wished that I could attend both Catholic mass and Orthodox liturgy and communicate in either one. Unfortunately, this is not allowed and I am bound by the rules resulting from the Schism. As a Catholic, I cannot communicate at Divine Liturgy; if I become Orthodox, I will not be able to communicate at a Mass. It causes me much distress. This cannot be God’s will.

I too would suggest the EC DL. Pray for unity. It also makes me sad that we Catholics cannot recieve in an Orthodox Church. But I believe this will happen soon enough.

 

[Peter_J]

That’s why they’re not considered to be in heresy.

That’s more a matter of political correctness than anything else. Official Catholic documents make it clear that the Immaculate Conception, Papal Infallibility and UOJ are dogmas.

 

[Schism_hater]

I too would suggest the EC DL. Pray for unity. It also makes me sad that we Catholics cannot recieve in an Orthodox Church. But I believe this will happen soon enough.

I have attended EC DLs. The thing is, for me it’s not just about, or even primarily about, the Liturgy. I really don’t have a problem with the western liturgy, except for the Filioque and the withholding of the chalice from the laity, and of course the hymnology in some of the NO masses is pretty horrible. Since the passage of that recent Canon (I never remember the number) it’s been made clear that Eastern Catholics must hold to the same post-schism western dogmas that western Catholics must, such as papal infallibility, and I simply am not able to accept those as dogmas.

 

[John_of_Patmos]

I have attended EC DLs. The thing is, for me it’s not just about, or even primarily about, the Liturgy. I really don’t have a problem with the western liturgy, except for the Filioque and the withholding of the chalice from the laity, and of course the hymnology in some of the NO masses is pretty horrible. Since the passage of that recent Canon (I never remember the number) it’s been made clear that Eastern Catholics must hold to the same post-schism western dogmas that western Catholics must, such as papal infallibility, and I simply am not able to accept those as dogmas.

May I ask, why not?
I mean, it doesn’t really effect ECs to accept Infallibility…
Plus, your Roman aren’t you?
There’s plenty of Patristic quotes about it, supporting it in fact…
And really, there’s plenty of other things that prove the Catholics right

 

[Peter_J]

I mean, it doesn’t really effect ECs to accept Infallibility…

Huh. I guess someone forgot to tell the pope that.

 

[MariaGoretti88]

Agreed. And, going a step further, this is why it bothers me that I sometimes hear fellow Catholics speak as though doctrinal agreement isn’t needed for sharing the eucharist.

I know it’s absurd!! The Holy Apostles, the Martyrs, Confessors, and Virgins would be shaking their heads left and right with people dropping orthodoxy but still claiming to be in communion with the Church. Not that I do not want them to be in communion, but I just hope that we all understand what that means, and common doctrine is definitely part of that.

Then you disagree with the teachings of the Catholic Church herself, since she permits the Orthodox to receive, and allows her own faithful to commune in an Orthodox Church (when access to a Catholic celebration of the Eucharist is not possible) where permission from the Orthodox is given.

I’m not disagreeing with her. Before you try to throw Canon Law at me, consider this fact: Those who reject any Catholic dogma (or any doctrine) is not in the Church and if one is not in the Church, one cannot receive the Sacraments. This goes against the First Epistle to the Corinthians.

Don’t even try to tell me that the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady and her glorious Assumption into Heaven, and accepting Papal Infallibility are suggestions according to the Church. What is the point of someone receiving our Sacraments if someone doesn’t agree with these doctrines? Either that person is undermining our Faith (pshh…whateva, hogwash who cares about those doctrines…), or he’s undermining the Sacrament (somehow I am supposed to receive Grace from the Sacraments of a Church whose doctrines I believe to be false…hmmm…).

It still is Communion…(Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity).
But I think I know what you mean.

Lol, yes It is. But it’s not “commUNal” emphasis on the UN in unity lol.

I’m sorry, but when it comes to dogma that is binding on all of us who even want to have a chance at saving our souls, there is no compromise. If I have to believe, then so do they. Otherwise, it’s a double-standard. I understand that this is uncomfortable for a lot of Orthodox and Catholics (it’s excruciating that we cannot fully agree, same with Protestants and other non-believers), but we cannot compromise the teachings of Christ for the sake of having them in.

That’s what a lot of pastors in my rite of the Church struggle with: They want the butts in seats, so they don’t say what needs to be said all the time (although I feel like more butts would be in seats if we got more “cold, hard” Truth (even though it is neither cold nor hard to the believer as King David exclaims in Psalm CXI, 1 “Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord: he shall delight exceedingly in His commandments.”).

No, he doesn’t disagree with the Catholic Church on this matter. Orthodox are permitted to receive Holy Communion at Catholic Liturgies precisely because, in the eyes of the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church has fully orthodox beliefs.

That’s why they’re not considered to be in heresy. This barrier between us is schism alone.

The Orthodox Church may not be heretical on paper, but according to the Catholic Church’s definition (heretics accept some revealed Truth but not all), the Orthodox Church is technically in heresy. Schismatics according to the same source refuse to submit to the authority of the Holy Father, but accept all revealed Truths.

Unless someone wants to explain to me why I (and all other Catholics here) would be refused the Sacraments if I refused to believe in the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin, but why our Orthodox brothers and sisters wouldn’t be…

Now do see the problem I’m having? As for the Canon Law, I have my own explanations for that to keep me freaking out about worrying about non-Catholics worthily receiving our Sacraments.

 

[Peter_J]

I understand that this is uncomfortable for a lot of Orthodox and Catholics

I would say rather that it’s uncomfortable for a lot of Catholics and Anglicans – the Orthodox are usually the first to speak out against intercommunion-without-doctrinal-agreement.

 

[RyanBlack]

I know it’s absurd!! The Holy Apostles, the Martyrs, Confessors, and Virgins would be shaking their heads left and right with people dropping orthodoxy but still claiming to be in communion with the Church. Not that I do not want them to be in communion, but I just hope that we all understand what that means, and common doctrine is definitely part of that.

I’m not disagreeing with her. Before you try to throw Canon Law at me, consider this fact: Those who reject any Catholic dogma (or any doctrine) is not in the Church and if one is not in the Church, one cannot receive the Sacraments. This goes against the First Epistle to the Corinthians.

Don’t even try to tell me that the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady and her glorious Assumption into Heaven, and accepting Papal Infallibility are suggestions according to the Church. What is the point of someone receiving our Sacraments if someone doesn’t agree with these doctrines? Either that person is undermining our Faith (pshh…whateva, hogwash who cares about those doctrines…), or he’s undermining the Sacrament (somehow I am supposed to receive Grace from the Sacraments of a Church whose doctrines I believe to be false…hmmm…).

Lol, yes It is. But it’s not “commUNal” emphasis on the UN in unity lol.

I’m sorry, but when it comes to dogma that is binding on all of us who even want to have a chance at saving our souls, there is no compromise. If I have to believe, then so do they. Otherwise, it’s a double-standard. I understand that this is uncomfortable for a lot of Orthodox and Catholics (it’s excruciating that we cannot fully agree, same with Protestants and other non-believers), but we cannot compromise the teachings of Christ for the sake of having them in.

That’s what a lot of pastors in my rite of the Church struggle with: They want the butts in seats, so they don’t say what needs to be said all the time (although I feel like more butts would be in seats if we got more “cold, hard” Truth (even though it is neither cold nor hard to the believer as King David exclaims in Psalm CXI, 1 “Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord: he shall delight exceedingly in His commandments.”).

The Orthodox Church may not be heretical on paper, but according to the Catholic Church’s definition (heretics accept some revealed Truth but not all), the Orthodox Church is technically in heresy. Schismatics according to the same source refuse to submit to the authority of the Holy Father, but accept all revealed Truths.

Unless someone wants to explain to me why I (and all other Catholics here) would be refused the Sacraments if I refused to believe in the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin, but why our Orthodox brothers and sisters wouldn’t be…

Now do see the problem I’m having? As for the Canon Law, I have my own explanations for that to keep me freaking out about worrying about non-Catholics worthily receiving our Sacraments.

By your own standards, you should cease receiving communion, because what you are saying concerning the Orthdodox is in opposed to what is taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. BTW, it is against the rules of the Forum to refer to the Orthodox either as heretics or schismatics.

 

[Pork_Roll]

Eastern Catholics must hold to the same post-schism western dogmas that western Catholics must, such as papal infallibility, and I simply am not able to accept those as dogmas.

You should follow you conscience even if it is wrong. Make sure you do your homework and read both sides of the argument and see who’s more reasonable.

Doesnt the Catholic church allow Orthodox Christians to commune in its churches?

My catholic church doesn’t allow orthodox to commune. However, this is done out of respect for the Orthodox who are not supposed to.