Communion at a Protestant church

[steido01]

Thank you for sharing. I am glad that your old pastor did not refer to the Lord’s Supper as Consubstantiation!

It certainly has become the body and blood of Jesus, but you can see and feel that it is still a wafer and wine.

This could just as well have been said by a Catholic priest. The fact that the Lutheran pastor made a point to say that it does “change” in some way should demonstrate to Roman Catholics that this is not Consubstantiation.

But don’t take my word for it, take your own church’s word! In 1967, the Lutheran-Catholic Dialogues came out with one of the few useful ecumenical documents: The Eucharist. Read it and note the Catholic source.

It never once speaks of Consubstantiation, and actually puts that misunderstanding to rest. Yet search the document and you will find “Sacramental Union” mentioned.

 

[Shasta-Rose]

I’m Catholic now. No dog in that fight any more.

 

[AugustTherese]

In fact, the only objections Lutherans really have to it is that it can, in some instances, be understood to lend credence to the idea that the Mass is a sacrifice

To reject the Sacrifice of the Mass is to reject Christ’s eternal priesthood. Does not the Eternal High Priest have something to sacrifice to be a High Priest?

 

[steido01]

Read the link and see what our churches say.

 

[AugustTherese]

a) First of all, we must be clear that Catholics as well as Lutherans affirm the unrepeatable character of the sacrifice of the cross. The Council of Trent, to be sure, affirmed this, but Lutheran doubts about the Catholic position were not resolved. Today, however, we find no reason for such doubt, and we recognize our agreement in the assertion that "What God did in the incarnation, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ, he does not do again. The events are unique; they cannot be repeated, or extended or continued. Yet in this memorial we do not only recall past events: God makes them present through the Holy Spirit, thus making us participants in Christ (I Cor. 1:9).

Do you confess to believe in this?

 

[steido01]

My church body was a full participant and signatory to the document.

Where there is nuance, the footnotes help clarify.

 

[AugustTherese]

My church body was a full participant and signatory to the document.

Where there is nuance, the footnotes help clarify.

What is preventing you from converting to the Catholic Church?

 

[ChristMyLife]

but eating it to be polite, just as bread and juice, nothing more

No, it is not permissible as it sends a false message.

It would be hypocritical to receive communion with a group of people who, sadly, you are not in full Communion with.

You can pray with them, praise and worship God with them, acknowledge that they are brothers and sisters in Christ… But receiving communion with them sends out a false message of unity when in fact division exists.

I know this is difficult to accept and it pains me to have to say it, but it is Magisterial teaching.

 

[steido01]

Far too many theological reasons to name. As a guest on these rather hostile boards (which do not even accept Lutherans at their word about their own beliefs) and in the spirit of Christian charity (I have no desire to air out Rome’s dirty laundry), I’m not about to list them and get banned.

In the simplest terms, I am convinced by Scripture, tradition and history that the Lutheran formulation of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic faith as laid out in the Book of Concord is the closest visible manifestation of what the ancient church should look like today. I find my particular Synod to be the nearest to that curiously-named, robust ‘Mere Christianity.’

 

[AugustTherese]

Far too many theological reasons to name

Really? How about you name just one or two and we can both work through them together in ecumenical charity?

(I have no desire to air out Rome’s dirty laundry), I’m not about to list them and get banned.

You and I both know that you could very easily list these supposed ‘[f]ar too many theological reasons to name’ in a constructive and charitable manner within the terms and conditions of this site that will not get you flagged, let alone ‘banned’. Again, could you name just one and we can iron it out?

In the simplest terms, I am convinced by Scripture, tradition and history that the Lutheran formulation of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic faith as laid out in the Book of Concord is the closest visible manifestation of what the ancient church should look like today

I respect the fact that you used ‘Scripture, tradition, and history’ to form your view of conviction, regardless of the differences in how we view and interpret those three. What I am a little curious about is how and why you used the terms ‘one, holy, catholic, and apostolic’ and applied them to ‘faith’. Certainly, there is nothing intrinsically wrong about doing so as the faith and Church are one, but those terms were coined and used to promulgate the physical marks of the universal Church Jesus Christ founded in order to separate Her from any other Church, sect, denomination, synod, branch, etc. claiming what only She can claim.

Let us forget about Scripture and tradition for a moment. I will, for the sake of argument, give up any biased pretenses and concede to your theory. Can you, if you will, from a pure historical account, show me how ‘the Lutheran formulation of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic faith as laid out in the Book of Concord’ is the closest visible manifestation of what the ancient church should look like today’?

 

[Dhc8_Type]

Married clergy. I wouldn’t be here if Lutherans prohibited married men from being pastors.

 

[AugustTherese]

Married clergy. I wouldn’t be here if Lutherans prohibited married men from being pastors.

Would not you want your pastor to be married to his flock (you) so he could focus all of his attention and efforts shepherding your soul all the way to the Eternal Promised Land?

Or, would you rather have your pastor have to balance his pastoral affairs with his domestic affairs?

“The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided”. - 1 Corinthians 7:32-34 (ESV)

And, by the way, there are many, many married clergy (priests and deacons) in the Latin Rite.

 

[Dhc8_Type]

But would my great grand father who didn’t marry until after he graduated seminary been allowed to marry?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Part of the reason it’s called “communion” is because that word means that we all agree with the beliefs of that community.

Or perhaps it signifies a ritual that puts us, as members of Christ’s body, in communion with God.

 

[phil19034]

AugustTherese:

ar too many theological reasons to name’ i

Actually I have to side with @steido01 here.

On the CAF forums, any criticism whatsoever of Catholicism that gets flagged is brutally quashed and the user who gave the criticism is suspended or banned.

CAF is not a good medium for open debate. Disagreement and criticism is labeled as uncharitable (even if it’s done in a charitable manner) and the debate is stifled.

If someone flags this post, I could potentially be banned just for writing this… Criticism of CAF itself is brutally stamped out just as quickly as any criticism of Catholicism.

These forums are really not open to open talk… They are pretty closed off and even oppressive. Zero tolerance for criticism of any kind.

Not sure how immediate silencing of opposing views is intellectually honest or rigorous, but it’s how CAF operates.

Please understand why. The primary reason CAF exists is to be a place where people can come to ask questions and learn about the Catholic Faith.

It’s not supposed to be a place to debate the faith, but rather for learn the absolute truth.

Some topics have leeway because they are subjects the Church gives us leeway on. Others are granted some leeway because they are questions / issues that often come up.

However, there are some threads that totally go against the apologetic mission of CAF & Catholic Answers, so they are closed or even sometimes deleted.

God Bless

 

[phil19034]

But would my great grand father who didn’t marry until after he graduated seminary been allowed to marry?

All 4 ancient Churches, the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriential Orthodox Church, and the Church of the East do not allow an ordained man to marry.

But they do allow a married man to be ordained.

So this goes back to at least the 4/5th centuries

The only way (theoretically) a man could marry after seminary is if he didn’t get ordained after seminary and waited to receive the Sacrament of Holy Orders until after he found a wife and married.

Or entered seminary AFTER getting married.

Seminary life (as it currently exists) would be very taxing on a marriage without having a totally different program for married men.

God Bless

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

However, there are some threads that totally go against the apologetic mission of CAF & Catholic Answers, so they are closed or even sometimes deleted.

That doesn’t explain all the high quality posters I’ve seen banned for little or no reason.

What about @catholic1seeks who was permanently banned after 10 years of membership because he linked to an SSPX website not to support them but to ask a question? An honest, innocent, no big deal mistake… And he gets permabanned.

I’ll call out wrong and injustice wherever I see it regardless of potential consequences. I don’t care if I get banned for this - I’ve seen the CAF mods commit grave injustice and they deserve to be called on it.

(I fully expect this account to be banned for what I’m writing… So we’ll see how things go)

@Tis_Bearself any (name removed by moderator)ut?

It’s because of the new software that Catholic Answers purchased. On the old platform, several human moderators reviewed reported posts and made human decisions.

But the new system has community self regulation. When a post gets flagged x number of times, the computer removes the post automatically. And when a poster receives x number of infraction, the computer automatically issues a punishment based on the type of infractions, etc.

Protests have to be sent to Catholic Answers for a human to review.

It’s not a perfect system, but it allows Catholic Answers to keep the forums instead of eliminating them (which was something they considered when they determined that they could not longer afford to pay their human moderators).

God bless

BTW - I know someone who was banned from
CAF for something like 100 years. That’s obviously not the action of a human moderator, but the result of a computer algorithm.

 

[steido01]

Can you, if you will, from a pure historical account, show me how ‘the Lutheran formulation of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic faith as laid out in the Book of Concord’ is the closest visible manifestation of what the ancient church should look like today’?

Sure: www.bookofconcord.org

That’s literally what the Lutheran Confessions do. They draw on the Fathers, the Scriptures, the traditions of the church and plain reason to seek the faith handed down from the Apostles.

But I don’t think this is the place to start a study on the BoC.

 

[giuseppe96]

I agree. That is one of the worst ideas for confirmation class I’ve ever heard. Here I was thinking that catechisis was getting better.

 

[LostSheep7]

Is it okay to take communion at a Protestant Church (bread and cups of grape juice) not for the purpose of receiving communion, and knowing why it’s not a substitute or anything, but eating it to be polite, just as bread and juice, nothing more

Absolutely not. You can be respectful in their place of worship without partaking in the Protestant communion