Communion at Ecumenical Prayer Services

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In an ecumenical prayer service, when bread is broken and blessed and grape juice is blessed and then shared with the participants in memory of Christ’s sharing at the Last Supper, is this considered improper for Catholics in attendance? It is not being claimed that this is the “Catholic or Protestant” Eucharist, but a prayer form of praying together in memory of what Christ did.
 
It is improper for Catholics to recieve any form of communion in any church without valid sacraments. A Latin rite Catholic can receive in an Orthodox Church, assuming the Orthodox do not object, or any of the other Rites connected with Rome, but not in Methodist, etc. This would mean that they cannot receive at an Ecumenical Prayer Service.

Simply put, this would imply false ecumenicalism. By saying “we are praying as Jesus did” they are ignoring HOW Jesus prayed that we would be one as He and the Father are One. By removing the methodolgy that Jesus left to the Church, you are removing the WHAT Jesus wanted us to do from the WHAT we are doing. Besides, from a strictly historical perspective, if there is grape juice involved, it is not the way Jesus did it at all.

As a Catholic, I would not receive. In fact, I would not attend any kind of Ecumenical service that included such an event. It is just how I feel about it. I would have no issue with being at another denomination’s service (not receiving), but once you add everyone, you are ignoring why we are separated to make it look like we are not. Nope. Not for me. Sorry.
 
I’m surprised that an ecumenical service would include communion. What I would have expected would be prayers and songs that everyone can participate in – sharing what we have in common rather than focusing on where we are out of communion with each other.
 
I’m surprised that an ecumenical service would include communion. What I would have expected would be prayers and songs that everyone can participate in – sharing what we have in common rather than focusing on where we are out of communion with each other.
Here in Alabama, the service you describe is the most common. IN some smaller towns that have a large First Baptist Church, they do the service as described by the OP. It bothers the tar out of me. I am not baptist and I do not want a community Baptist service passed off as ecuminical
 
I sent another comment to further clarify - this was not held in another church. This was at a retreat center, where main line protestant ministers and others in ministry were being taught/lectured on the Liturgy of the Hours - something they were ever so grateful to the Catholic Church for preserving/modifying over the centuries. Daily they would have a prayer service, where Scripture was read (gospel and psalms), hymns sung then bread broken, Grape juice poured, then distributed to those attending.
What was communion was our coming together in prayer - each from our own backgrounds - no one claiming to have a “correct” rite, but praying to our God in community. I fail to see how that can be a wrong prayer/activity for a Catholic to participate in. I come from a Catholic family - all of my sibs and their spouses have remained Catholic, but many of our children have left - some joining other churches. I thought how wonderful it would be if we could come together in prayer in this fashion at our reunions. It seems to me Christ wants oneness of spirit - not conformity to rigid rules.
 
I sent another comment to further clarify - this was not held in another church. This was at a retreat center, where main line protestant ministers and others in ministry were being taught/lectured on the Liturgy of the Hours - something they were ever so grateful to the Catholic Church for preserving/modifying over the centuries. Daily they would have a prayer service, where Scripture was read (gospel and psalms), hymns sung then bread broken, Grape juice poured, then distributed to those attending.
What was communion was our coming together in prayer - each from our own backgrounds - no one claiming to have a “correct” rite, but praying to our God in community. I fail to see how that can be a wrong prayer/activity for a Catholic to participate in. I come from a Catholic family - all of my sibs and their spouses have remained Catholic, but many of our children have left - some joining other churches. I thought how wonderful it would be if we could come together in prayer in this fashion at our reunions. It seems to me Christ wants oneness of spirit - not conformity to rigid rules.
Ah, but it is not a conformity to rigid rules that we see here. As Catholics (or Lutherins or Orthodox or some other denominations) we see what happens at the alter to be more than simply a oness of prayer in a certain way. There is something that happens at that time that is unique to communion and cannot be replicated in another fasion. Therefore, to have a joint service with those who feel that it is nothing more than a symbol is to deny the teachings of your church. Why? Because that part of the teaching, the part that really matters (Christ being the very Bread of Life sent from Heaven) is being ignored. There is no problem joining in prayer. There is no issue in singing together, working together, or studying Scripture together. The issue is in removing Christ from that which He instituted and calling it good.

Catholics and Lutherins beleive that Jesus is present. The understanding of how is different, but both beleive it to be true. Same with Orthodox. I think that Anglicans, Episcopalians, and some Methodists do as well. I would love to get their (name removed by moderator)ut on this.
 
Is Christ any less present in our prayer than what he promised - that He is with us ALWAYS? And do we throw away words of wisdom that say, "Wherever two or three are gathered together in my Name, there I am in the midst of them? Lutherans (not Lutherins) and altar (not alter) - how can your words have validity or authenticity when you cannot even spell? I thought real theologians would be addressing the answers to these questions?

I appreciate your opinion, but cannot accept your opinion as the dogmatic teaching of the Church. I think a pastoral approach would consider the rules, but take into consideration other aspects in a prayer situation like mentioned above.

Christ said do this in memory of me in Scripture. Thomas Aquinas also said, if your conscience speaks a truth to you and you do not follow that truth, even if your truth possibly be in error, then you sin not to follow your conscience.

These were very sincere, prayerful people that were coming together in prayer - and the sense of community and presence of God in our midst was very apparent - because of the blessings and joy and other fruits of the spirit that abounded in that group.

We must be guided by the truths taught to us, but we also must be open to the wind of the spirit and the truths of our faith and the truths of others’ faith traditions - how can God be offended by the sincerity of such a group?

Did Pope John Paul stop at the Wailing Wall and say - “Oh, this is a Jewish wall, so my prayer will not be heard by God if I pray here as the Jews do”?

There have also been times when Communion was extended by Popes to non Catholics. Were they sinning to go against the teachings of the Church?

We must be informed by the teachings - but we must use our own conscience and openess to the spirit in some situations. A pastoral approach, which considers the truths but takes into consideration the circumstances is a Christian approach to the above situation.
 
Is Christ any less present in our prayer than what he promised - that He is with us ALWAYS? And do we throw away words of wisdom that say, "Wherever two or three are gathered together in my Name, there I am in the midst of them? Lutherans (not Lutherins) and altar (not alter) - how can your words have validity or authenticity when you cannot even spell? I thought real theologians would be addressing the answers to these questions?
Spelling is not a requirement for salvation or for an understanding of faith. There is a “real theologian” part of this site where you can ask one. This part is pretty much amatures.
I appreciate your opinion, but cannot accept your opinion as the dogmatic teaching of the Church. I think a pastoral approach would consider the rules, but take into consideration other aspects in a prayer situation like mentioned above.
You can check my opinion on this. It is a simplification of the dogmatic teaching. A pastoral approach can take these things into account, but in the end shoudl follow the rules of Christ’s Church
Christ said do this in memory of me in Scripture. Thomas Aquinas also said, if your conscience speaks a truth to you and you do not follow that truth, even if your truth possibly be in error, then you sin not to follow your conscience.
True, but we must have a properly formed conscience
These were very sincere, prayerful people that were coming together in prayer - and the sense of community and presence of God in our midst was very apparent - because of the blessings and joy and other fruits of the spirit that abounded in that group.
Never said nor implied that they were not. In fact, I am glad that your spiritual life was inriched. You asked about one particular part of the service, and I told you.
We must be guided by the truths taught to us, but we also must be open to the wind of the spirit and the truths of our faith and the truths of others’ faith traditions - how can God be offended by the sincerity of such a group?
The question is if a Catholic should participate. The answer is no. The question of the sincerity of others was not discussed.
Did Pope John Paul stop at the Wailing Wall and say - “Oh, this is a Jewish wall, so my prayer will not be heard by God if I pray here as the Jews do”?
This is not the same issue. At all. The question was about communion in an ecumenical setting. The pope would not have participated.
There have also been times when Communion was extended by Popes to non Catholics. Were they sinning to go against the teachings of the Church?
Nope. We can give to them. Most of them cannot give to us. It is the Law.
We must be informed by the teachings - but we must use our own conscience and openess to the spirit in some situations. A pastoral approach, which considers the truths but takes into consideration the circumstances is a Christian approach to the above situation.
Again, the Church says no about this. No matter how it makes us feel or any of that. My mother the Church says that I cannot play in this manner, so I cannot play. I try to be a good son.👍

I am touched by the fact that the Holy Spirit moved for you guys. I always love hearing stories of how other people had their faith increased. Please continue to share.
 
As a Protestant, it s highly improper to have a Eucharist at a worship service billed as ecumenical, in respect to Catholics, Missouri Synod Lutherans, and others that only celebrate Eucharist within their own communion or see the orders of other clergy as invalid.

One way to deal with this is to celebrate a Love Feast instead of a Eucharist (the Love Feast has very early ties to the Early Church). I know at official meetings of Methodist-Catholic dialogue they do this.
 
In an ecumenical prayer service, when bread is broken and blessed and grape juice is blessed and then shared with the participants in memory of Christ’s sharing at the Last Supper, is this considered improper for Catholics in attendance? It is not being claimed that this is the “Catholic or Protestant” Eucharist, but a prayer form of praying together in memory of what Christ did.
Yes. This issue has been address several times by various Popes and theologians. It is extremely improper for Catholics to receive Holy Communion from anyone except for a Catholic priest, or someone delegated specifically by the local Catholic Bishop for the purpose of distributing Catholic Holy Communion.

This would also include anything that goes on at an ecumenical service, regardless of its location, and regardless of the good intentions of the participants.
 
As a Protestant, it s highly improper to have a Eucharist at a worship service billed as ecumenical, in respect to Catholics, Missouri Synod Lutherans, and others that only celebrate Eucharist within their own communion or see the orders of other clergy as invalid.

One way to deal with this is to celebrate a Love Feast instead of a Eucharist (the Love Feast has very early ties to the Early Church). I know at official meetings of Methodist-Catholic dialogue they do this.
As to the above, perhaps I made a mistake originally in referring to what transpired as communion - for I meant communion in the sense of praying in community - rather than meaning to mislead others into thinking I meant Eucharist. And mainline protestant ministers were there participating in this communal prayer service - about 80 people total - more than half of them ministers/pastors of their congregations - Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopal, Baptist, Presbyterian and others. Catholic priests at times have lead these retreats. I wonder what their response has been? This was my first time to attend this Spiritual Formation group and the emphasis this year was on praying the liturgy of the hours. We also had a Taize healing service during the week of retreat. I never compared what transpired at these prayer liturgies to what we as Catholics believe about the Eucharist. As a Catholic, my pastor has me lead Eucharist Prayer Services when he is not available for daily mass - and this was a similar service - though was not called Eucharist - just called prayer liturgy with sharing of the blessing and breaking of bread in memory of Christ. And of course, at the EPS - we use hosts that have been consecrated at prior mass and kept in the locked Tabernacle.

Am interested in your defining what transpires at Love Feasts. Ministers of the denominations above were very active in the preparation and leading of these prayer liturgies.

Regardless of all the rules quoted - my week with these folks who are/were seeking a closer relationship with God through various forms of prayer was a very special and spiritual time of joy and celebration. (this time the emphasis on Liturgy of the Hours),
but past retreats have concentrated on Centering Prayer, Christian meditation, Lectio Divina, and other ways of growing in faith on our/their spiritual journeys. There seemed to be more unity of spirit among these participants than some “all
Catholic” prayer services I have attended. They even learned how to chant the psalms - for some had participated at Catholic monasteries in the chanting and wanted to practice it within the group.

I can’t help but feel that this is the kind of unity Jesus spoke of in Scripture - for a chapter in Scripture was devoted to the Pharisee who, while performing his “orders” not to touch anyone while on his way to lead prayer in the synagogue - past up the person on the wayside who begged for his help. Jesus was teaching an important lesson there - that rules are good for order - but one has to take the circumstances into account and “break” the rules when it seems the better action to take.

Yes we must study and understand the rules, and true - form a good conscience - but I think some of what has been said is sticking to the letter of the law rather than the spirit of praising, worshiping and loving God together with all of humanity.

I will always remain Catholic and practice my faith within the norms of the teaching Church - but I will use my free will, my conscience and circumstances when deciding what is correct for me to do and what is incorrect.

I have discussed this with priests who agree with my conclusions.
It has surprised me to hear what I presume are lay people who are taking such a strong stand on this, even this person today who is saying this is wrong for protestants to participate in also.
 
As a Protestant, it s highly improper to have a Eucharist at a worship service billed as ecumenical, in respect to Catholics, Missouri Synod Lutherans, and others that only celebrate Eucharist within their own communion or see the orders of other clergy as invalid.

One way to deal with this is to celebrate a Love Feast instead of a Eucharist (the Love Feast has very early ties to the Early Church). I know at official meetings of Methodist-Catholic dialogue they do this.
O.S.

If I am not mistaken, you are Methodist. I know that you feel that open communion is the correct way to go. In general, however, are there specific rules as to the species used or which denominations have valid communion services?
 
You asked for Catholic teaching on the matter-- which is that you are NOT to participate-- and you don’t like that answer so you have now spent the rest of this thread trying to defend the practice with statements such as this, "I appreciate your opinion, but cannot accept your opinion as the dogmatic teaching of the Church. I think a pastoral approach would consider the rules, but take into consideration other aspects in a prayer situation like mentioned above. "

If you did not want to receive the answer, then why ask the question?

There is NO wiggle room on this. Catholic may NOT receive in these situations.

Ecclesia de Eucharistia states it clearly, and unambiguously:

The Catholic faithful, therefore, while respecting the religious convictions of these separated brethren, must refrain from receiving the communion distributed in their celebrations, so as not to condone an ambiguity about the nature of the Eucharist and, consequently, to fail in their duty to bear clear witness to the truth.
 
O.S.

If I am not mistaken, you are Methodist. I know that you feel that open communion is the correct way to go. In general, however, are there specific rules as to the species used or which denominations have valid communion services?
“Open Communion” is a misnomer - it’s not a “Y’all come.” The invitation (in the UM liturgy) is this:
Christ our Lord invites to His table
all who love him, who earnestly repent of their sin
and seek to live in peace with one another,
Therefore, let us confess our sins before God and one another:

(prayer of confession and pardon takes place here).

So it’s open as far as someone can answer the above invitation in the affirmative, which basically means someone who is baptized into the Christian faith. Earlier in the service, either the Apostles’ or Nicene Creed is also said. Having said both of those things, there is no “liturgical police” to frisk someone before they come to the Table.

Ecumenical gatherings as Yulejule have explained that center on prayer or a prayer office are not problematic for most. Evensong services are especially nice (and fun), when a large gathering is present to sing.

I usually will not even think about celebrating a Eucharist unless “like-minded” Protestants are present. Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcopalians, and some Presbyterians are like minded when it comes to it being a sacrament, recognizing each other’s clerical orders. Also, United Methodists, Lutherans, and Anglicans/Episcopalians have official eucharistic sharing agreements. If I am the celebrant at such a service, I will use wine and the plainest bread.

O+
 
“Open Communion” is a misnomer - it’s not a “Y’all come.” The invitation (in the UM liturgy) is this:
Christ our Lord invites to His table
all who love him, who earnestly repent of their sin
and seek to live in peace with one another,
Therefore, let us confess our sins before God and one another:

(prayer of confession and pardon takes place here).

So it’s open as far as someone can answer the above invitation in the affirmative, which basically means someone who is baptized into the Christian faith. Earlier in the service, either the Apostles’ or Nicene Creed is also said. Having said both of those things, there is no “liturgical police” to frisk someone before they come to the Table.

Ecumenical gatherings as Yulejule have explained that center on prayer or a prayer office are not problematic for most. Evensong services are especially nice (and fun), when a large gathering is present to sing.

I usually will not even think about celebrating a Eucharist unless “like-minded” Protestants are present. Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcopalians, and some Presbyterians are like minded when it comes to it being a sacrament, recognizing each other’s clerical orders. Also, United Methodists, Lutherans, and Anglicans/Episcopalians have official eucharistic sharing agreements. If I am the celebrant at such a service, I will use wine and the plainest bread.

O+
Thanks. Also, thank you for the clarification. I understand better your position.
 
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