Communion at International Eucharistic Congress

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The_Idiot

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This is the opening Ceremony - as put out on RTE Player.

It’s not good on a slow connection.rte.ie/player/#v=3312817

Please look at the way that Communion was given to the Laity - from about 2hrs and 40mins in, I’m not talking about the Clergy receiving by self intinction - there are several members of laity shown very very clearly self -intincting. I’ve always thought this was not permitted.
 
That whole Mass is shocking. Liturgical abuses. Self intinction. So liberal. So effeminate. Con-celebration. Communion in the hand. Rock band music. Lay ministers even though there is more than enough clergy.

Just look at the congregation. Ten women to every man.

Vatican II springtime.

:tiphat:
 
The Church since Vatican II is misery. Stop blaming me.

:tiphat:
 
[edited]

At least there were no dancing deacons and barefooted women dancing around with bowls of incense!

But seriously, as to the OP, is this a permitted practice (self-intinction by laity)?
 
ByzCathCantor said:
is this a permitted practice (self-intinction by laity)?
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No. “The communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand.” (Redemptionis Sacramentum 104)
 
japhy said:
No. “The communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand.” (Redemptionis Sacramentum 104)
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Then, to the point of the OP, how could this be happening, at the International Eucharistic Congress no less?
 
This event isn’t going to evangelize the world. What happened to the once mighty, Catholic Church?
 
It is not permitted, but you will notice that there is only one EMHC shown offering the chalice in this way. I agree that it’s not right, but one poorly catechised EMHC is just an accident. Yes, if EMHCs are used at all they should be properly educated. Yes, there were enough priests available to distribute communion (but possibly they hadn’t submitted their credentials in time - a big Mass like that has a huge process of accreditation which may have to be completed two-three days before the actual Mass, it’s fairly credible that all those priests who didn’t distribute communion flew in too late). Somehow one slipped through the net and the cameras focused on him. He should be spoken to but there’s no reason to suppose it was going on throughout the arena or that it is a widespread practice.

I know the previous criticism has been deleted whilst I watched the whole Mass, but just fwiw, I did watch the whole thing and I thought it was a really reverent, beautiful celebration. If people are complaining about the rubrics not being followed, I don’t see where.

There was no ‘rock music’ in the Mass, that was part of the pre-Mass celebrations. The actual Mass had very classic music (I won’t say traditional as it wasn’t Gregorian chant, but it was classic whilst maintaining a Mass setting that most people would know and be able to sing along to).

There was a mixture of Latin and English; sung, chanted and spoken parts. There was an organ (well done outdoors!), incense (alright, if I had a criticism it would be of the carrying of the incense in bowls amongst the people; but the altar, gifts and priests were all censed properly and the censing of the people is optional anyway so it doesn’t particularly bother me), a deacon proclaiming the parts which are proper to him. All in all, for such a massive organisational nightmare, they did very well keeping it holy and focused on God and rubrically correct.

Some extraneous things were annoying - like the TV commentary, but that can’t be the fault of the Congress organisers, it’s just RTE.
 
Batfink said:
I know the previous criticism has been deleted whilst I watched the whole Mass, but just fwiw, I did watch the whole thing and I thought it was a really reverent, beautiful celebration. If people are complaining about the rubrics not being followed, I don’t see where.
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I would certainly agree with that. There have been far worse examples of questionable celebrations of the Mass associated with other formal congresses held in the name the Church (need not go there).

I actually did enjoy watching this, as well, and thought it was one of the more reverent examples of Mass celebrated in connection with such occasions in recent memory.

As you suggest, this visible instance of self-intinction may be an isolated instance, but the irony of having taken place in the context of a Eucharistic Congress is clear.

In the parlance of our current American President, we’ll take it as a “teachable moment”.

Thanks to my RC brothers and sisters here for answering my questions about Latin praxis in this regard. I have indeed learned something from the exchange.
 
japhy said:
No. “The communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand.” (Redemptionis Sacramentum 104)
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Does RS apply to all the rites or just the Latin ones? As it was only one EMHC I was wondering if self-intinction was permitted in Eastern Catholic rites and if the EMHC was an Eastern Catholic and if that could explain it (I am grasping at straws because I can’t believe an EMHC could not be trained that this if forbidden in the Latin Rite).
 
ECs normally Slavic folk anyway ] Receive from a spoon - the Body and Blood are together in the Chalice. Melkites receive by intinction BUT that is done by the priest not the laity .

Can’t answer for the Maronites and Malankara.

Note also the large number of Clergy that were vested in Alb and Stole also Received by self-intinction and this is not normally done either certainly was not done at the Papal Masses in the UK anyway ]
 
TheDoctor said:
Does RS apply to all the rites or just the Latin ones? As it was only one EMHC I was wondering if self-intinction was permitted in Eastern Catholic rites and if the EMHC was an Eastern Catholic and if that could explain it (I am grasping at straws because I can’t believe an EMHC could not be trained that this if forbidden in the Latin Rite).
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The laity never handle the Most Pure Body and Precious Blood in the Eastern Rites.

Further, while laymen can be appointed Extrardinary Ministers, it is rare in practice. I imagine even more rare in Ireland (although there are a growing number of Eastern Catholics in the country).

In this specific, visible instance, it should also be noted that the EMHC is standing next to a member of the clergy while this self-intinction is taking place.
 
Is there a video of Archbishop Terrence Prendergast (SJ) celebrating the Extraordinary Form? I know for a fact that he did, but there seems to be no videos of it.

Are there videos of any of the other really awesome events that have taken place there?

Or is this just video of one instance with one person, and we’re going to judge the entire event based on this?

 
I watched the whole of the opening IEC Mass at home. For about 2 hours before Mass began there was a kind of concert and Mass eventually began. The Cardinal’s homily was good but there were many appalling things like self-intinction, the use of EMHCs when apparently 1/3 of the College of Cardinals was present and the bad vestments. You had to cringe when the “altar girls” processed around with their bowls of incense above their head, attired in bed sheets. And the emphasis was too much on our communion with one another. What about our God who feeds us with his very flesh!?

I was watching a video of the congress from 1932. What a far cry it is from what happened in Dublin on Sunday.
 
PA650 said:
. What happened to the once mighty, Catholic Church?
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It is trying to become more like the Church the Lord founded .

It is not seeking to be “mighty” , but to be the image of its founder who sought to serve rather than lord it over people .
 
Hello.

I am worrking at the Congress in a Security capacity. The Mass was a lovely experience. The welcoming/intorduction of the pilgrims from around Ireland and more importantly, the world was very beautifully done and the weather was very kind to us, as it was today also.

the self intinction by the laity was clearly wrong and must not happen again, particularly at the closing Mass in Croke Park on Sunday.

Today is Ecumenism day. An agreed shared liturgy was celebrated in the arena with the keynote address given by a representative of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Another event with a wonderful spririt among the pilgrims…
 
The_Idiot said:
Can’t answer for the Maronites …
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As I have read today (this became a bit of a study topic), when intinction is done in the Latin Rite it is in the same manner as in the Maronite Church. That is, the priest dips the Host and administers on the tongue.
 
well - this is NOT what happened in Dublin.

Both clergy and laity self-intincted 😦
 
arkwright said:
It is trying to become more like the Church the Lord founded .

It is not seeking to be “mighty” , but to be the image of its founder who sought to serve rather than lord it over people .
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Unlike others, I don’t condemn triumphalism that was once a hallmark of the Church throughout its history through proclaiming the truth to the world. Although let me know when the Modernist reign of terror has ended and the spirit of Vatican II has been eradicated.
 
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