Communion being restricted

[HelenRose]

I’m currently talking to some protestant friends about communion, specifically about who should take it, and I have tried, as winsomely as possible to put forward the Catholic view (without actually saying ‘this is the Catholic view’) . I’ve been confounded by a really individualistic approach to 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 and the zinger that Jesus gave communion to Judas so the church has no business refusing anyone. Any help?

Tell your friends that by going forward to accept the Body and Blood of Jesus, they are showing to the community that they believe that this is indeed the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ - it is not a symbol.

I know that this is a difficult teaching for Protestants because their view is that Communion is a symbol and the meaning is one of a fellowship meal. They believe that they are being excluded from a friendly get-together.

I am not as understanding of their position as I used to be. I would never go into any person’s house of worship and demand that they share their sacraments with me.

For that matter I would never go in to any person’s house and demand that I eat a meal with them on “MY” terms.

Ask them if they would walk in a Pueblo Indian’s Kiva and demand to share in the Ritual Traditions of the Pueblo Indian’s beliefs.

It they find it rude that we protect the Body and Blood of Christ and treat Him with great love and worship, I find them far more rude demanding that we accept their position on how they believe while they are in our House of Worship.

 

[fbl9]

St.Mark 14; 12-16 states Judas left
St Matthew 27 ;20-25 does not state if Judas left but does have the event in question before the institution of the Eucharist.
St.Luke 22: 14-20 institution of Eucharist 21-23 revelation of the betrayer.

Sorry:blush:
St.Mathew 26: 20-25 Has the dipping of the bread before the institution of the Eucharist(26-29).
St.Mark 14: 17-21 same order as written by St.Matthew
at least i got St.Luke’s writings right.
St.John 13: 26-30 states Judas left immediately after receiving the morsel.
After this screw up i will no longer try to be nice and save some one the time

 

[Dorothy]

Sorry:blush:
St.Mathew 26: 20-25 Has the dipping of the bread before the institution of the Eucharist(26-29).
St.Mark 14: 17-21 same order as written by St.Matthew
at least i got St.Luke’s writings right.
St.John 13: 26-30 states Judas left immediately after receiving the morsel.
After this screw up i will no longer try to be nice and save some one the time

No problem. I have made many errors in conversations in forums.

 

[Ender]

This explanation is exactly what the church teaches today. The key point here is that Judas’ intentions - his sin - was not public; it was not known to the other disciples. If the sin is publicly known (manifest) then it is the duty of the minister not to offer communion (Can. 915), but if the sin is private it is the responsibility of the individual not to present himself (Can. 916). A priest is supposed to give communion to anyone who presents himself so long as the supplicant’s sin is not publicly known, even if the sin is grave and the priest himself knows about it.
Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion. Can. 916 *A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to celebrate Mass or **receive *the body of the Lord without previous sacramental confession unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition which includes the resolution of confessing as soon as possible.
Ender

 

[steve_b]

I’m currently talking to some protestant friends about communion, specifically about who should take it, and I have tried, as winsomely as possible to put forward the Catholic view (without actually saying ‘this is the Catholic view’) . I’ve been confounded by a really individualistic *approach to 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 *and the zinger that Jesus gave communion to Judas so the church has no business refusing anyone. Any help?

Jesus did allow Judas to partake, knowing in advance Judas will betray Him.

Matthew 26:23

Mark 14:20

John 13:26

That doesn’t mean the Church shouldn’t teach people in actual mortal sin, or not properly disposed, ( 1 Cor 11: 27-30) they should NOT partake in the Eucharist. It’s for their own protection. People need to be fully aware of the supernatural realities of what is really going on here. When Paul wrote that warning, who gave Paul that inspiration to write that? It was the HS…right John 14:25-26 ?. Which means that teaching ultimately came from Jesus. John 16:12-15. Think of it as Jesus giving the warning

 

[Randy_Carson]

I’m currently talking to some protestant friends about communion, specifically about who should take it, and I have tried, as winsomely as possible to put forward the Catholic view (without actually saying ‘this is the Catholic view’) . I’ve been confounded by a really individualistic approach to 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 and the zinger that Jesus gave communion to Judas so the church has no business refusing anyone. Any help?

Saint Thomas Aquinas and last supper
ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=366355&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu=

 

[Goya]

Pretty solid synopsis at EWTN’s website from earlier this year (most of it already addressed above):

ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=300948
We read in the Gospel of St. John:

13:21 When Jesus had thus spoken, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, “Truly, truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” 13:22 The disciples looked at one another, uncertain of whom he spoke. 13:23 One of his disciples, whom Jesus loved, was lying close to the breast of Jesus; 13:24 so Simon Peter beckoned to him and said, “Tell us who it is of whom he speaks.” 13:25 So lying thus, close to the breast of Jesus, he said to him, “Lord, who is it?” 13:26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give this morsel when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 13:27 Then after the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.” 13:28 Now no one at the table knew why he said this to him. 13:29 Some thought that, because Judas had the money box, Jesus was telling him, “Buy what we need for the feast”; or, that he should give something to the poor. 13:30 So, after receiving the morsel, he immediately went out; and it was night.

In the Gospel of St. Mark we read:

26:20 When it was evening, he sat at table with the twelve disciples; 26:21 and as they were eating, he said, “Truly, I say to you,** one of you will betray me.” 26:22 And they were very sorrowful, and began to say to him one after another, “Is it I, Lord?” 26:23 He answered, “He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me, will betray me**. 26:24 The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” 26:25 Judas, who betrayed him, said, “Is it I, Master?” He said to him, “You have said so.” 26:26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is my body."

The Gospel of St. John indicates that after having received the dipped morsel from the Lord, Satan entered Judas and he IMMEDIATELY left the company of our Lord and apostles. The Gospel of St. Mark makes it clear that only after the dipping episode did our Lord then offer the blessed Bread and Cup which is the Eucharist. So a comparison of the texts of these two Gospels (and that of St. Matthew as well) seems to suggest that Judas was not present for the sharing of the First Eucharist itself, and who can imagine a more unworthy vessel of reception for Holy Communion? And so we see a solid basis and case in point for the insistence of the Church–and St. Paul in his letter to the Corinthians–that a Christian be properly disposed and worthy by the presence of grace in order to receive the Most Holy Eucharist.

On the other hand, following in the footsteps of St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas takes the position that Judas did participate in the Eucharistic offering itself. As we read from the Summa Theologica (Question 81, Article 2):

OBJ 1: It seems that Christ did not give His body to Judas. Because, as we read (Matthew 26:29), our Lord, after giving His body and blood to the disciples, said to them: “I will not drink from henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I shall drink it with you new in the kingdom of My Father.” From this it appears that those to whom He had given His body and blood were to drink of it again with Him. But Judas did not drink of it afterwards with Him. Therefore he did not receive Christ’s body and blood with the other disciples…

…

As St. Thomas notes by citing the opinion of Hilary, not all the early Fathers were in agreement on this point and so it does not manifest Tradition as such and there is room for disagreement on this point. However, I am such a fan and disciple of St. Thomas Aquinas that I defer to his analysis in this matter, noting that while the juxtaposition of the Synoptic tradition and that of St. John appears to preclude Judas from the Eucharist, the great St. Augustine and St. Thomas find them reconcilable. As such, we must say that Judas received the Holy Eucharist to his own detriment, as is true for anyone who receives the Eucharistic Lord in an unworthy manner or condition. ©

Thanks, Margaret

Father Echert

COPYRIGHT 2016*

ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=300948

So it appears rather conclusively, to be…inconclusive.