Communion by Non-Catholic

[JoeFreedom]

During our children’s first communion a few weeks ago, we celebrated mass with family and friends. Not all of whom were Catholic. My mom, a former Catholic, and now a Lutheran (one of the more conservative sects that is closer to Catholicism), and a neighbor, who is a Protestant (Pentecostal or Baptist, I’m not sure) both went up to communion to receive the Eucharist.

I was not aware my mom went up to receive until afterwards, when she told me at the party for our children. She told me she spoke with the priest prior to mass explaining she was not Catholic but believed in the real presence and asked if she could receive and he told her yes. (She knows I pray for her to come back to the CC and I am very strong about the truth of our Catholic faith, and because she is no longer Catholic - in many of the typical ways, anti-Catholic; e.g.: Mary’s sinless-ness, purgatory, etc.)

I’ve never heard of this. I’m assuming it’s okay since the priest agreed, but I’ve never heard of this. Any explanations?

Secondly, I saw my neighbor at the last moment receiving the Eucharist. I’d assume he is not aware of the fact that Jesus is present in the host, and also not aware that it is not symbolic. Thoughts?

 

[MaryT777]

During our children’s first communion a few weeks ago, we celebrated mass with family and friends. Not all of whom were Catholic. My mom, a former Catholic, and now a Lutheran (one of the more conservative sects that is closer to Catholicism), and a neighbor, who is a Protestant (Pentecostal or Baptist, I’m not sure) both went up to communion to receive the Eucharist.

I was not aware my mom went up to receive until afterwards, when she told me at the party for our children. She told me she spoke with the priest prior to mass explaining she was not Catholic but believed in the real presence and asked if she could receive and he told her yes. (She knows I pray for her to come back to the CC and I am very strong about the truth of our Catholic faith, and because she is no longer Catholic - in many of the typical ways, anti-Catholic; e.g.: Mary’s sinless-ness, purgatory, etc.)

I’ve never heard of this. I’m assuming it’s okay since the priest agreed, but I’ve never heard of this. Any explanations?

Secondly, I saw my neighbor at the last moment receiving the Eucharist. I’d assume he is not aware of the fact that Jesus is present in the host, and also not aware that it is not symbolic. Thoughts?

I know a Lutheran online (LCMS/Missouri Synod) that spoke to a priest before Mass and was told by the priest he could receive Communion. He also told the priest he believed in the real presence.

Mary.

 

[Blessedwithfive]

I can almost understand if you believe in the real presence being able to receive but what about Confession before receiving…? Do non-Catholics get a pass?

 

[TobyLue]

From the Guidelines For The Reception Of Communion by the USCCB we read:
FOR OUR FELLOW CHRISTIANS
We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ’s prayer for us “that they may all be one” (Jn 17:21).

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. **Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 §4). **Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of Communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 §3).

Note the bold part. Lutherans, Pentecostals, Baptists, etc. are NOT in full communion with the CC therefore are not to approach to receive the Eucharist except under EXCEPTIONAL circumstances.

Code of Canon Law 84 4§4 reads If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed."

Attending a first communion is NOT a grave necessity, i.e danger of death. If you notice on the missalettes this is explained as to what non-Catholics should do. The priest should have said NO to them. Some priests are afraid to upset the apple cart but they have to be firm. I know of this lady who has been married to a Methodist for over 20 years, They attend Mass every Sunday. When I was invited to the First Communion of this third child, the gentleman went up and received communion. I found out later that he never went to RCIA, first communion classes, confirmation, etc. but he told the priest he felt he was Catholic because he had been attending Mass with his Catholic wife for over 20 years and if it was OK for him to start receiving communion. The pastor told him that it was just fine with him. The gentleman never has been formally received into the Catholic Church. The priest was wrong.

A priest I knew, God rest his soul, used to give communion to whoever wanted to. I attended a wedding of a Catholic and an Episcopalian and the parents of the Episcopalian asked the priest if they could receive communion and he told them yes. I reminded the priest of this action at a later date and he said he was not doing that anymore. Apparently the Bishop got after him.

So, it’s not the priest’s call. The priest needs to make sure to safeguard the Eucharist and in a pastoral manner explained to non-Catholics why they cannot receive our Blessed Lord. So a person who has left the CC for whatever reason, cannot come back at any time and claim they believe in the Eucharist and go up and receive our Precious Lord. They can do it, but only if they go to confession first as they are not properly disposed. Likewise Pentecostals and Baptist, who believe it’s only symbolic, and not truly the Bod and Blood of Jesus Christ, should refrain from receiving Holy Communion.

 

[Crusaderbear]

We had first communion tonight. The Monsignor made a point of telling the congregation only full Roman Catholics and certain Eastern Rites in communion with Rome may recieve. It would be nice if all christians could recieve, but it’s not there yet. I’m sure someone will weigh in with the doctrinal statements before too long…

 

[JoeFreedom]

We had first communion tonight. The Monsignor made a point of telling the congregation only full Roman Catholics and certain Eastern Rites in communion with Rome may recieve. It would be nice if all christians could recieve, but it’s not there yet. I’m sure someone will weigh in with the doctrinal statements before too long…

This (the priest expressing explicitly that all are welcome to church but only Catholics may receive) is what I’m used to when circumstances (e.g.: baptisms, first communions, confirmations, etc.) arise where family and friends might come to church who normally do not or who are not Catholic.

It upsets me that my mom, who used to be in full communion with the Church, knowingly and willingly left the CC and now denies her fullness, yet still wants to participate in some of the Church’s gifts by picking and choosing what she believes. I’ve discussed her concerns when appropriate and have come to realize all I can do is pray she come back. I know in my heart that my dad would welcome her coming back because he would follow my mom, but his Catholic faith growing up was weak, and he doesn’t want to upset my mom who is more argumentative about her beliefs and strongly rooted in her Lutheranism.

 

[Crusaderbear]

In the end, I guess it’s between the individual and God…I’ve never seen/heard of someone being denied communion if they presented ghemselves.

 

[SyroMalankara]

This (the priest expressing explicitly that all are welcome to church but only Catholics may receive) is what I’m used to when circumstances (e.g.: baptisms, first communions, confirmations, etc.) arise where family and friends might come to church who normally do not or who are not Catholic.

It upsets me that my mom, who used to be in full communion with the Church, knowingly and willingly left the CC and now denies her fullness, yet still wants to participate in some of the Church’s gifts by picking and choosing what she believes. I’ve discussed her concerns when appropriate and have come to realize all I can do is pray she come back. I know in my heart that my dad would welcome her coming back because he would follow my mom, but his Catholic faith growing up was weak, and he doesn’t want to upset my mom who is more argumentative about her beliefs and strongly rooted in her Lutheranism.

How “strong” is your mom’s Lutheranism? There are so many strains and varieties, some are anti-Papal and everything that entails, others are not so much. If she is a “confessional” Lutheran, she probably would not have approached.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

This (the priest expressing explicitly that all are welcome to church but only Catholics may receive) is what I’m used to when circumstances (e.g.: baptisms, first communions, confirmations, etc.) arise where family and friends might come to church who normally do not or who are not Catholic.

It upsets me that my mom, who used to be in full communion with the Church, knowingly and willingly left the CC and now denies her fullness, yet still wants to participate in some of the Church’s gifts by picking and choosing what she believes. I’ve discussed her concerns when appropriate and have come to realize all I can do is pray she come back. I know in my heart that my dad would welcome her coming back because he would follow my mom, but his Catholic faith growing up was weak, and he doesn’t want to upset my mom who is more argumentative about her beliefs and strongly rooted in her Lutheranism.

Well, your mom is probably a better Christian than many cafeteria Catholics out there…i have a hunch that plenty of Catholics do not go to confession regularly yet receive the blessed Sacrament anyway.

Anyway, I think the priest should not have ok’d this, but I’m just laity so what do i know.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I know a Lutheran online (LCMS/Missouri Synod) that spoke to a priest before Mass and was told by the priest he could receive Communion. He also told the priest he believed in the real presence.

Mary.

And the priest that told him that was wrong

 

[adamhovey1988]

Well, your mom is probably a better Christian than many cafeteria Catholics out there…i have a hunch that plenty of Catholics do not go to confession regularly yet receive the blessed Sacrament anyway.

Anyway, I think the priest should not have ok’d this, but I’m just laity so what do i know.

More than the priest, apparently

 

[adamhovey1988]

How “strong” is your mom’s Lutheranism? There are so many strains and varieties, some are anti-Papal and everything that entails, others are not so much. If she is a “confessional” Lutheran, she probably would not have approached.

I don’t think it matters, the Church doesn’t allow it. She should have abided by the Church’S rules not by a priest’s opinion

 

[SyroMalankara]

I don’t think it matters, the Church doesn’t allow it. She should have abided by the Church’S rules not by a priest’s opinion

Agreed. But how would she know - he’s culpable not her, for misleading her.

 

[MaryT777]

And the priest that told him that was wrong

The problem is a person can say “I believe in real presence” to a priest but still believe many things contrary to the Church. This person belonged to the LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) Their official confessions still believe in Bible ALONE, Faith ALONE, Grace ALONE etc. They also teach in their confessions which are in the Concord book the Pope is the AntiChrist.

How can a priest know the nuances of every Lutheran or any other Faith for that manner?

I was surprised as well that the priest gave the go ahead to him receiving Holy Communion and this was not a wedding or some special circumstance.

SECOND ? perhaps I should start a new thread but I was told by a friend of mine if ANYONE approaches for Communion a priest cannot deny that person without permission from the Bishop. Does anyone know the correct answer to this? If so is there Canon law or something from the GIRM that speaks to this t hat could be quoted?

Mary.

 

[MaryT777]

Agreed. But how would she know - he’s culpable not her, for misleading her.

Yes, how would she know if the priest told her it was acceptable.

 

[Herculees]

In the end, I guess it’s between the individual and God…I’ve never seen/heard of someone being denied communion if they presented ghemselves.

I actually witnessed someone being refused communion, and the church was PACKED with young adults. Fortunately, the individual did NOT make a stink. She approached for communion the priest whispered something to her and she walked away WITHOUT receiving and did NOT receive a blessing. Many people present called in and questioned why the individual was NOT permitted to receive. Everyone was told basically the same thing which was that they could NOT tell us why that particular individual could not receive but that there are many reasons why an individual may not be permitted to receive.

I personally suspect it was because the person was someone I saw several times on the news picketing in front of the local cathedral about the sex abuse scandal.

 

[FrDavid96]

In the end, I guess it’s between the individual and God…I’ve never seen/heard of someone being denied communion if they presented ghemselves.

That depends…If the priest knows that the person is non-Catholic, then he cannot administer Communion.

The general rule is to assume that anyone who approaches is both Catholic and eligible to receive; that is, unless something indicates the contrary.

At the same time, it’s the priest’s responsibility to educate the people in the church to know the Church’s position and teaching on this. There’s no single way to achieve that in a way which addresses all situations.

 

[FrDavid96]

Yes, how would she know if the priest told her it was acceptable.

In a situation like that, the priest is wrong for having said it. It’s not her fault for doing something that the priest told her (wrongly) that she could do.

 

[FrDavid96]

It’s really not for the priest to decide. It is for him to discern whether or not such a person meets the criteria of the Church.

There must be danger-of-death, or other grave necessity (which are the 2 highest standards in the law).

The person must express the Catholic belief in the Sacraments, including believing in the necessity of a validly ordained priest to consecrate the Eucharist.

It is worth noting that Redemptionis Sacramentum, #85 specifically says that these conditions cannot be dispensed. So going against these norms is something that not even the bishop can permit. All of the conditions (and I haven’t even listed all of them) must be met. This is all too often ignored.

If someone says “I believe in the Real Presence” the next question would be “do you believe that if a Lutheran minister attempts Consecration, that is the Real Presence?” If the answer is in the affirmative, then such a person is objectively not eligible to receive Communion—exactly because such a person does not believe in the necessity of a validly ordained priest to Consecrate.

For reference vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
See paragraph 85

 

[JoeFreedom]

The problem is a person can say “I believe in real presence” to a priest but still believe many things contrary to the Church. This person belonged to the LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) Their official confessions still believe in Bible ALONE, Faith ALONE, Grace ALONE etc. They also teach in their confessions which are in the Concord book the Pope is the AntiChrist.

How can a priest know the nuances of every Lutheran or any other Faith for that manner?

I was surprised as well that the priest gave the go ahead to him receiving Holy Communion and this was not a wedding or some special circumstance.

SECOND ? perhaps I should start a new thread but I was told by a friend of mine if ANYONE approaches for Communion a priest cannot deny that person without permission from the Bishop. Does anyone know the correct answer to this? If so is there Canon law or something from the GIRM that speaks to this t hat could be quoted?

Mary.

I think (again, just my uniformed opinion) the priest cannot ask, “Are you in mortal sin?” while they are going up for communion. However, if someone were to tell the priest to prior to mass, “Hey, I just murdered someone and I intend to steal the Eucharist for a black mass.”, I think they could deny them the Eucharist???