Communion By The Hand

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

For me, receiving the Body of Christ by the hand is not a holy practice.

Thanks for the opinion but I think I will stand with the Church on this.

CITH is an option that is allowed by the Church and were it is in place it is no less “holy” or “pious” on option than the alternative, COTT.

 

[PatriceA]

Thanks for the opinion but I think I will stand with the Church on this.

CITH is an option that is allowed by the Church and were it is in place it is no less “holy” or “pious” on option than the alternative, COTT.

Thank you. I certainly hope this isn’t a thread that some are judging people that receive CITH as any less “Catholic” or holy than ones that receive COTT. I certainly hope we aren’t encouraging people to look at people in the communion line and passing judgement when we should be concentrating on our own state of grace when we receive the Eucharist.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Bookcat, the Holy Father in his actions shows differently. Perhaps he changed his view with time?

He now only (with very few exceptions) expects all who receive Communion from his hands to receive kneeling and on the tongue.

There are reasons for this that have been discussed around here many times.

The Holy Father in his actions of still allowing for reception in the Hand even though those who receive form him must do so on the tongue (again for reasons that have been discussed) shows that he is for allowing this option.

If he decided otherwise then it would not be an option.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Thank you. I certainly hope this isn’t a thread that some are judging people that receive CITH as any less “Catholic” or holy than ones that receive COTT. I certainly hope we aren’t encouraging people to look at people in the communion line and passing judgement when we should be concentrating on our own state of grace when we receive the Eucharist.

This is exactly what is happening.

People are focusing their attention on how their brother and sister are receiving the Eucharist rather than paying attention to their own self.

The Gospel about the speck in the eye comes to mind here. So do the pharisee and the publican.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

This is exactly what is happening.

People are focusing their attention on how their brother and sister are receiving the Eucharist rather than paying attention to their own self.

The Gospel about the speck in the eye comes to mind here. So do the pharisee and the publican.

Exactly…one only has to read some of the posts above… I receive in the hand…and I can tell you I am not thinking its just a piece of bread and go back to my pew and think about football or something equal to that. I receive in the hand and go back and thank him and pray…many times I just want to weep…who am I that He should come to me like that…

 

[newyorkcatholic]

Thanks for the opinion but I think I will stand with the Church on this.

CITH is an option that is allowed by the Church and were it is in place it is no less “holy” or “pious” on option than the alternative, COTT.

Logic problem here.

The Church can allow something even if it’s less holy.

The Church allows me to go to Mass only on Sundays and HDOs. Going more often is better.

Just one example.

CITH is a lawful option. And we can’t judge souls. But we can judge practices. It’s a problematic practice.

If I am “wrong” for thinking this, so is the Holy Father. He allows CITH but doesn’t do it himself, what does that say? That COTT is preferred, but he doesn’t mandate it. This could be because he thinks CITH is good but not as good, or because it’s not good at all but it would do no good to ban it since people would disobey. Or something else entirely. I can’t read his mind, but I can read his actions.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

Exactly…one only has to read some of the posts above… I receive in the hand…and I can tell you I am not thinking its just a piece of bread and go back to my pew and think about football or something equal to that. I receive in the hand and go back and thank him and pray…many times I just want to weep…who am I that He should come to me like that…

Well notice in my post I made great pains to say that not all, and not even necessarily most. I just said many. Specifically I made that point specifically in regard to people on this forum who I’m pretty sure don’t do that.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Logic problem here.

The Church can allow something even if it’s less holy.

The Church allows me to go to Mass only on Sundays and HDOs. Going more often is better.

Comparing apples to oranges here.

The discipline of how one receives the Eucharist is no way comparable to ones attendance at Mass.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Well notice in my post I made great pains to say that not all, and not even necessarily most. I just said many. Specifically I made that point specifically in regard to people on this forum who I’m pretty sure don’t do that.

I don’t think you can compare the two…If the Church were to go to all COTT…it doesn’t necessarily mean that someone who is not reverent now is going to any more so. Just as there are people who go to Sunday Mass…and leave and it doesn’t appear to effect them. This is the Holy sacrifice of the Mass we are talking about.

We can not judge the state of peoples souls and if they believe in the real presence or not…it’s up to us to worry about the state of our own soul.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Logic problem here.

The Church can allow something even if it’s less holy.

The Church allows me to go to Mass only on Sundays and HDOs. Going more often is better.
Just one example.

CITH is a lawful option. And we can’t judge souls. But we can judge practices. It’s a problematic practice.

If I am “wrong” for thinking this, so is the Holy Father. He allows CITH but doesn’t do it himself, what does that say? That COTT is preferred, but he doesn’t mandate it. This could be because he thinks CITH is good but not as good, or because it’s not good at all but it would do no good to ban it since people would disobey. Or something else entirely. I can’t read his mind, but I can read his actions.

Yes but the Church says that going to daily Mass is better if possible…but it does not say that COTT is better…at least not anywhere I’ve read.

 

[Bookcat]

There are reasons for this that have been discussed around here many times.

The Holy Father in his actions of still allowing for reception in the Hand even though those who receive form him must do so on the tongue (again for reasons that have been discussed) shows that he is for allowing this option.

If he decided otherwise then it would not be an option.

(and even in the newer book since he has been Pope he discusses this and also notes that he has given and received on the hand…

 

[newyorkcatholic]

Comparing apples to oranges here.

The discipline of how one receives the Eucharist is no way comparable to ones attendance at Mass.

It’s not a direct comparison but an analogy.

They are both counter-examples to a false assertion.

The false assertion is that “because the Church allows two ways of doing something, they are both equally holy or pious.”

The Church allows COTT and CITH but one is more reverent (objectively, without considering the intention of the person, which I can only do for myself). One is also more prone to sacrilege.

The Church in her official law even says CITH is to be restricted and not used when there is danger of sacrilege.

This is not said of COTT which is never to be denied.

They are not on an equal footing, just because they are both allowed.

 

[PatriceA]

It’s not a direct comparison but an analogy.

They are both counter-examples to a false assertion.

The false assertion is that “because the Church allows two ways of doing something, they are both equally holy or pious.”

The Church allows COTT and CITH but one is more reverent (objectively, without considering the intention of the person, which I can only do for myself). One is also more prone to sacrilege.

The Church in her official law even says CITH is to be restricted and not used when there is danger of sacrilege.

This is not said of COTT which is never to be denied.

They are not on an equal footing, just because they are both allowed.

BUT, never should one say the Catholic receiving COTT is more reverent than the Catholic receiving CITH. To do otherwise is very dangerous.

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat, the Holy Father in his actions shows differently. Perhaps he changed his view with time?

He now only (with very few exceptions) expects all who receive Communion from his hands to receive kneeling and on the tongue.

He addresses the reason for the reception from himself as Pope in the book “Light of the World”…

he also notes there that he has given Communion on the Hand and he himself has received this manner.

No. I would not say his views have changed.

 

[newyorkcatholic]

BUT, never should one say the Catholic receiving COTT is more reverent than the Catholic receiving CITH. To do otherwise is very dangerous.

I can’t judge souls. But we can all judge practices.

The man with arthritis who doesn’t genuflect might be more reverent than the man who genuflects to appear reverent to others.

But genflection when passing in front of the tabernacle is still better than no genuflection, objectively.

 

[PatriceA]

I can’t judge souls. But we can all judge practices.

The man with arthritis who doesn’t genuflect might be more reverent than the man who genuflects to appear reverent to others.

But genflection when passing in front of the tabernacle is still better than no genuflection, objectively.

That’s exactly the point though. You can’t read into people’s hearts or the state of their souls. And this thread was dangerous close to make that kind of judgements based solely on how a Catholic receives the Eucharist.

Should I be doing all I can to be reverant when in the presence of the Eucharist? Absolutely. Should I be making sure everyone else is doing exactly what I am doing, when I’m doing the action and to the exact degree I’m doing it? No.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

I don’t think you can compare the two…If the Church were to go to all COTT…it doesn’t necessarily mean that someone who is not reverent now is going to any more so. Just as there are people who go to Sunday Mass…and leave and it doesn’t appear to effect them. This is the Holy sacrifice of the Mass we are talking about.

We can not judge the state of peoples souls and if they believe in the real presence or not…it’s up to us to worry about the state of our own soul.

You’re right that it won’t necessarily, but it seems to me that more people would treat it more reverently.

Again, I’m not saying that CITH is bad or even necessarily worse when done reverently. however, how many people out there are doing it irreverently? And it seem that it is much easier to be irreverent with CITH than with COTT.

Either way, I think that the focus of our priests and bishops and deacons needs to be on enforcing and encouraging reverence, rather than making our liturgies banal and trite in a vain attempt to emulate the vanities of this world in order to encourage more attendance.

 

[Melchior_1]

I can’t judge souls. But we can all judge practices.

The man with arthritis who doesn’t genuflect might be more reverent than the man who genuflects to appear reverent to others.

But genflection when passing in front of the tabernacle is still better than no genuflection, objectively.

I’m thirty years old. You look at me not genuflecting, you would say “he’s irreverent and not pious”. After all, I’m thirty! Why would a thirty year old man NOT genuflect?

But by judging the practice, you are judging the soul. An unknown back ailment, arthritis in both knees and both feet would help me not genuflecting, wouldn’t it?

But when I’m without a cane, I’m sure there are some who think “tsk tsk, he’s not doing it right”, all the while I can’t feel my left leg and there’s a sharp pain in my lower back and left hip.

There are others like me, and others who don’t place as much emphasis on the externals. Just because you do not see an action, does not mean that action is not happening within the mind.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

You’re right that it won’t necessarily, but it seems to me that more people would treat it more reverently.

Again, I’m not saying that CITH is bad or even necessarily worse when done reverently. however, how many people out there are doing it irreverently? And it seem that it is much easier to be irreverent with CITH than with COTT.

Either way, I think that the focus of our priests and bishops and deacons needs to be on enforcing and encouraging reverence, rather than making our liturgies banal and trite in a vain attempt to emulate the vanities of this world in order to encourage more attendance.

Should we be talking about reverence for the Eucharist…ABSOLUTELY… That is first and foremost.

Should we be judging other people receiving communion and pretend that we know their hearts…NO…bad move.

As an EMHC…I see both types…reverent/non-reverent receiving both ways. They do not necessarily go hand in hand.

Now…that might be true for you…or some other people here…That you feel called to receive on the tongue…GREAT! By all means you have to follow your conscience but to say that others are not reverent or a large portion aren’t for how they receive is very dangerous…and really not your job to judge! You want something to do after receiving communion…then pray for a true conversion for your whole parish.

I think when we have these talks about how people are not reverent…it pushes people away…that they feel like they are being judged.

Everyone’s walk with the Lord is different…and as long as Holy Mother Church allows two options…then that’s good enough for me!

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I’m thirty years old. You look at me not genuflecting, you would say “he’s irreverent and not pious”. After all, I’m thirty! Why would a thirty year old man NOT genuflect?

But by judging the practice, you are judging the soul. An unknown back ailment, arthritis in both knees and both feet would help me not genuflecting, wouldn’t it?

But when I’m without a cane, I’m sure there are some who think “tsk tsk, he’s not doing it right”, all the while I can’t feel my left leg and there’s a sharp pain in my lower back and left hip.

There are others like me, and others who don’t place as much emphasis on the externals. Just because you do not see an action, does not mean that action is not happening within the mind.

EXACTLY! At his old parish…our priest had a full leg cast or brace on and could not kneel for a period. Somebody stopped him once after Mass and just railed on him…blah blah blah…that’s the problem with you liberal priest…ect… He lifted up his vestments and showed the man his cast and turned and left him standing there.