Communion for non-Catholics in the Catholic church

[rinnie]

I am not sure if anyone said this so if I repeat I apologize for I am comming in late.

In the RCC, when we go up and receive the body of CHrist we cannot be in mortal sin. If we do we condemn ourself. It is the Priests job to teach the good word. If you are not Catholic you would not realize this and it would be the fault of the Priest.

Do you understand what I am saying. The Priest has the job to teach the faith to you first. That is why you must first have RCIA.

That is why if you are in the mass you will recall these words said everyday before communion. Lord I am not worthy to receive you , but only say the word and I shall be healed. We know when we say these words that we cannot be in mortal sin. If so we must first go to confession. We cannot take part of communion either. You would not know that if you did not receive instruction.

So what you may fill as being slighted it is the Priest protecting you.

See the Priest did not make the rules he just follows them. God wrote the rules not the Priest. He is just a teacher not the Master. The Master is God and the Priest follows his commands. He runs the Church as God has instructed him.

No one is ever turned down to enter the Church and Mass. All is welcomed to the faith, but they must learn the faith to enter into the communion of Christ. They must know what they are doing going up to join themself with the living Christ. And you soul must not be in mortal sin to join yourself at the table of Christ.

Hope that helps.

 

[rinnie]

Depends on the priest. I’ve been to a CC funeral and prior to the eucharist the priest invited all to partake that were there knowing before hand that there were only a couple Catholics there. Most people there were Holiness.

This is not the Practice of the RCC.

 

[chris_molter]

This is not the Practice of the RCC.

rinnie is correct. Furthermore, a Priest who does this is in violation of Canon Law and has broken their ordination vows. Not to mention they are creating scandal and possibly causing spiritual harm to those receiving while not in a state of grace.

 

[CMatt25]

Again, I suggest that you read the relevant passages in the Catechism. You aren’t ‘entitled’ to communion as some sort of ‘reward’ for being a ‘good person’ who just happened to break some ‘silly rule’. Again, I reiterate; the Church doesn’t make up or add on rules, it merely states God’s own rules to us and requests us to follow Him.

Can you help me understand something? You said mortal sin as defined by the Catholic Church merits eternal damnation by killing the soul. Assuming a person were to die in this state, are you judging their eternity by saying that?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Can you help me understand something? You said mortal sin as defined by the Catholic Church merits eternal damnation by killing the soul. Assuming a person were to die in this state, are you judging their eternity by saying that?

Mortal sin, as defined by the Catholic Church, merits eternal damnation. The authority of the Church to define this (binding and loosing) is set by God Himself. Therefore, were a person to die in this state, unrepenting, then that person has chosen his own damnation under the authority of God Himself. Not ‘the church’s authority’, not MY authority, not the judgment of MEN but the judgment of GOD.

 

[chris_molter]

Can you help me understand something? You said mortal sin as defined by the Catholic Church merits eternal damnation by killing the soul. Assuming a person were to die in this state, are you judging their eternity by saying that?

I think it’s also important to point out that even if you knew, objectively, that someone had committed mortal sin (you knew they had full knowledge, consent of the will, etc), then saw them get hit by a bus, you still could not say with objective certainty whether that person had a moment of perfect contrition prior to death. Therefore it’s not possible to objectively know that person is damned to Hell. Assuming that is the sin of judgement.

IIRC, the Church has never said definitively whether any one particular person was in Hell.

 

[crazzeto]

I was baptised Episcopalian. In this faith, all baptised Christians are welcomed to accept communion. I have been married now to my husband for 10 years and he is Catholic and our two children are being raised Catholic. I am offended that Catholics do not “allow” non-Catholics that are baptised to receive communion. When I’ve asked my husband about this in the past, he has simply said that is just how it is.
I have considered converting, but this is my sticking point with the Catholic faith.

Comments?

Communion isn’t just a symbol of Christian Unity, first and foremost it is the body, blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. So serious is this taken, that St Paul writes in his Epistle:

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=27&f=s#x

27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

More over, partaking of the Eucharist is an assent that you are in communion with the Church you are participating in communion at. This is why Catholics aboslutly can not partake in any non-Catholic, or in certain circomstances at an Eastern Orthodox Church, with the Permission of the local Bishop.

Does that sound like the kind of thing that we should willy nilly give out to just anyone who decides to walk up?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I think it’s also important to point out that even if you knew, objectively, that someone had committed mortal sin (you knew they had full knowledge, consent of the will, etc), then saw them get hit by a bus, you still could not say with objective certainty whether that person had a moment of perfect contrition prior to death. Therefore it’s not possible to objectively know that person is damned to Hell. Assuming that is the sin of judgement.

IIRC, the Church has never said definitively whether any one particular person was in Hell.

Quite correct. That’s why I answered that the person in a state of unrepented mortal sin had subjected himself to damnation under God’s authority. Obviously one who repents (and only God can know that, we cannot) at the time of death is a different case from one who doesn’t repent. But above all, I can’t make it clear enough or strong enough that it is not in any way, shape or form that <> have 'judged this person, or that the Church has ‘judged’ this; it is God who judges and the Church who clearly teaches what God Himself has said.

 

[CMatt25]

Tantum and Chris, thank you both for your answers. I understand where you are coming from.

Chris, you stated even if we knew someone had committed mortal sin in full knowledge, etc…

If someone has knowledge of something the Church teaches as mortal sin but disagrees and in good conscience does not believe then they are consenting to sin by the act, and therefore does not make contrition, they are doomed then?

 

[rinnie]

Quite correct. That’s why I answered that the person in a state of unrepented mortal sin had subjected himself to damnation under God’s authority. Obviously one who repents (and only God can know that, we cannot) at the time of death is a different case from one who doesn’t repent. But above all, I can’t make it clear enough or strong enough that it is not in any way, shape or form that <> have 'judged this person, or that the Church has ‘judged’ this; it is God who judges and the Church who clearly teaches what God Himself has said.

And here is a easy way to remember mortal sin also. Mortal sin is like you said refusing to repent. If a person is in a state of mortal sin we go to a Priest and repent and are forgiven by the Priest who stands in for God, Mortal sin is separation from God. If a person dies in Mortal sin that means he rejected God and did not want to repent. It was that persons will to reject God. God gives us until our last breath to accept him. But that does not mea that the person is granted immediate entrance to heaven. Thats why we know as Catholics that we will go to purgatory for a final cleansing of our soul. But thats another thread.

 

[rinnie]

Tantum and Chris, thank you both for your answers. I understand where you are coming from.

Chris, you stated even if we knew someone had committed mortal sin in full knowledge, etc…

If someone has knowledge of something the Church teaches as mortal sin but disagrees and in good conscience does not believe then they are consenting to sin by the act, and therefore does not make contrition, they are doomed then?

Thats a sticky question. If you know the teachings of the Church you must obey them. Because you must remember do you want to follow your teachings or Gods. See what I mean. But if you are asking if you commit a sin and you know its against the teachings of the Church and you are aware of it. Then yes your soul is in grave danger. Because you knew it was a sin, you were aware of what you were doing it, and you went ahead and did it anyway, That would be separating yourself from God, mortal sin!

 

[CMatt25]

Thats a sticky question. If you know the teachings of the Church you must obey them. Because you must remember do you want to follow your teachings or Gods. See what I mean. But if you are asking if you commit a sin and you know its against the teachings of the Church and you are aware of it. Then yes your soul is in grave danger. Because you knew it was a sin, you were aware of what you were doing it, and you went ahead and did it anyway, That would be separating yourself from God, mortal sin!

I was actually asking if someone knows what the Church teaches but does not believe a teaching is mortal sin, and therefore does not believe they are committing sin, are they damned?

 

[chris_molter]

Tantum and Chris, thank you both for your answers. I understand where you are coming from

Chris, you stated even if we knew someone had committed mortal sin in full knowledge, etc…

If someone has knowledge of something the Church teaches as mortal sin but disagrees and in good conscience does not believe then they are consenting to sin by the act, and therefore does not make contrition, they are doomed then?

If someone is struggling to reconcile their conscience with the teachings of the Church, that’s not a problem. The problem arises when the person decides that the Church is in error on a definitively defined matter of faith or morals and they are right. In that case, the person’s conscientious objection to the Church’s teachings is a matter of obstinate denial of a revealed truth (aka heresy).

A relevant passage from the CCC: (emphases mine)

IV. ERRONEOUS JUDGMENT

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. **This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. **

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. **One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience. **

1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Mortal sin has 3 requirements:

1. Grave nature.
2. Full knowledge.
3. Full consent.

So. . .I think that God would know (and we wouldn’t) if a person truly did not ‘believe’. I mean, I might not ‘believe’ in the force of gravity but I’d be subject to it. And if I were a 5 year old not believing (i.e, thinking I could fly like Superman) it’d be a whole different type of belief than for me to believe the very same ‘way’ at age 50 something!

Thing is, does a person (again, this will be known to God) ‘not believe’ because he doesn’t understand the correct teaching? Does he not believe because he doesn’t WANT to believe? There are big differences.

What it will come down to is that nobody ‘unknowingly’ damns himself/ herself.

IF a person truly ‘did not believe’ something gravely sinful was sinful, that person lacked full knowledge.

But if a person has truly understood the grave nature, but in a ‘rationalization’ has managed to almost convince himself it wasn’t sin. . .deep down that person knows. He just doesn’t want to admit and accept it. Again, only God can know a person’s soul.

If a person is damned, be sure that person not only will ‘know’ at the time of death, but will have known before, even if he claims he does not.

 

[chris_molter]

I was actually asking if someone knows what the Church teaches but does not believe a teaching is mortal sin, and therefore does not believe they are committing sin, are they damned?

Well, it’s a bit complicated, given that the Church can give examples of what actions could BE mortal sin, but since mortal sin has three elements:

1. It must be of a grave matter;
2. It must be committed with full knowledge that it is a mortal sin;
3. It must be committed with full consent.

each occurrence of that action must be judged individually. It might help if you gave an example of what you mean.

( I see Tantum Ergo and I cross posted similar info. I’ll defer to his/her better explanation)

 

[O.S.Luke]

*I respect my Church in the greatest way. (I’m Catholic.) But I often wonder what Christ would say about certain things. Honestly, what would Christ, Himself, say about any Christian wanting to receive Him in Holy Communion? Would Christ, Himself, turn a non-Catholic away? I understand why the Church turns them away. But would Christ look a non-Catholic Christian in the eye and say, “no, you cannot receive me because you’re not Catholic”? Something to think about, isn’t it? *

This is why I cannot become Catholic. I would fear for my soul to be party to disallowing a baptized repentant Christian to receive his Body and Blood.

 

[rinnie]

This is why I cannot become Catholic. I would fear for my soul to be party to disallowing a baptized repentant Christian to receive his Body and Blood.

Why. I mean you have no power over who receives the Body and Blood of Christ. You only have the power over yourself not others? Unless I am misundertanding you statement.

 

[CMatt25]

Yes seems very complicated. It sounds like the catechism is saying 2 things. We must follow our conscience even when it rejects a teaching. But at the same time saying a conscience is in err if it is not informed and thus in uniform with all the Church teaches.

Complicated as well if a person in good conscience still can not follow something after full knowledge, how that can not mean they deep down do not know what the Church teaches but still reject it in good conscience.

I could give all sorts of examples. But what if someone doesn’t believe it’s mortal sin to miss Mass? Or mortal sin to miss Mass on a prescribed holy day?

 

[rinnie]

I was actually asking if someone knows what the Church teaches but does not believe a teaching is mortal sin, and therefore does not believe they are committing sin, are they damned?

You got me there. I don’t know. I would say yes because you would be putting yourself above the teachings of the church. Do you see what I mean.

God left us the Church to teach us what we need to do and know to get into heaven. So I guess if you are asking if I think that we put our own teaching over the teaching of the church and disobey the word of God for our own will. Then I gotta say yes, motal sin,

Because you know the Church teaches its wrong.
you disobey the word of God
under your own free will you did it anyway.

But thats just my personal belief.

It would be like if I know I cannot cheat on my husband, But I think God will understand because lets say he was not a good husband. But I felt it was right and knew it went against the teachings of God but did it anyway. Because I did not agree with the adultery in my case. Sorry I still commited mortal sin!

 

[O.S.Luke]

Why. I mean you have no power over who receives the Body and Blood of Christ. You only have the power over yourself not others? Unless I am misundertanding you statement.

If I were Catholic, I would be a part of a communion that has as its official policy that repentant, non-Catholic Christians cannot receive the Eucharist (the sustaining sacrament), even though we recognize their baptism (the initiating sacrament). Again, I have to answer to my Maker one day.