Communion In a Protestant Church...

[Shiann]

Sheeds:

This probably sounds really hypocritical of me (as a Catholic in its true meaning), particularly because from what I have just read on other threads is that taking communion in a protestant church is a mortal sin for a Catholic… but from a “moral” point of view, I cannot see how I committed in taking communion at a baptist church and at a lutheran church, whilst discovering my relationship with the Lord a few years ago. Although I believe in the Catholic church foremostly. I believe in God moreso! And I think that one can have a relationship with God regardless of the church they belong to… because at the end of the day, it is YOU and your relationship with the LORD that counts! And at the time (due to ignorance and immaturity and lack of knowledge) I felt that having communion at these protestant churches was just allowing me to further connect with the Lord… so should I now go to confession… or just reconcile my sins through prayer with my personal relationship with the Lord!!!

Go to confession AND reconcile your sins through prayer with your personal relationship.

By claiming yourself Catholic, you make a specific claim- that is, the consecrated host and wine ARE the Body and Blood of our Lord in total.

Then by taking communion at another church, to tell those around you that “though you believe in the Catholic Faith, you still see their communion as valid.” When by the definition of your Faith and theirs, it is not.

You have, by your actions, broken down the Catholic Body of Faithfull. You have diminished the sacrifice that others make by bluring the lines between the Catholic Faith any other.

I understand you mean well, and that you maybe do not see the difference between the Catholic Eucharist, and the actions of other Churches to represent the same thing. I recommend that if you are Catholic, you get thee to a priest- and discuss your questions, repent, and do not commit this action again.

 

[Sheeds]

Shiann:

Go to confession AND reconcile your sins through prayer with your personal relationship.

By claiming yourself Catholic, you make a specific claim- that is, the consecrated host and wine ARE the Body and Blood of our Lord in total.

Then by taking communion at another church, to tell those around you that “though you believe in the Catholic Faith, you still see their communion as valid.” When by the definition of your Faith and theirs, it is not.

You have, by your actions, broken down the Catholic Body of Faithfull. You have diminished the sacrifice that others make by bluring the lines between the Catholic Faith any other.

I understand you mean well, and that you maybe do not see the difference between the Catholic Eucharist, and the actions of other Churches to represent the same thing. I recommend that if you are Catholic, you get thee to a priest- and discuss your questions, repent, and do not commit this action again.

Thanks for your reply! Now being a little more knowledgable on this point of receiving communion… I will certainly not take communion in a non-Catholic church again! I have, since the time about 5-6 years ago when I was discovering my connection with the Lord, resolved that through study of scripture, church history, philosophy etc… that the true church is the Catholic church! That statement is certainly not meant to undermine people worshipping in other churches, as I’m sure, that ultimately a relationship with the Lord can be found through a variety of avenues! But once one realises that the traditions of the Catholic church are still implemented because the Catholic church has the direct teachings of Jesus from St Peter… unfortunately, other christian denominational and non-denominational churches are in an essence flawed, because Martin Luther and his predecessors were just men… and the word of God should not be interpreted by man alone, but by our Father, alone!! This is not to mention that the Catholic Church is the only church who has the scholastic and hence theological background to properly interpret the Old and the New Testament into languages other than those used by Biblical writers… and hence, must be the only true church with any ability of being able to teach the owrd of God in way that most closely represents the truth! … sorry that justifcation was so long winded… but these are some of the things that have enabled me to realise that the Catholic church is the one true church of Jesus! Amen!

 

[John_Mazar]

Semper Fi,

I do go to Confession in the form of Communal Reconciliation Service with General Absolution twice a year at Easter and Christmas. I will never go to Individual Confession ever again.

 

[Mickey]

John Mazar:

I will never go to Individual Confession ever again.

:crying:

 

[Shiann]

[/quote]

Oh man, I can’t second this enough!

Individual confession is one of the most beautiful and amazing of the sacraments. The personal release of the sins we commit by having to actually speak them- is a very humbling and cleansing experience!

 

[Shiann]

Sheeds:

Thanks for your reply! Now being a little more knowledgable on this point of receiving communion… I will certainly not take communion in a non-Catholic church again!

That is wonderful to hear!

I have, since the time about 5-6 years ago when I was discovering my connection with the Lord, resolved that through study of scripture, church history, philosophy etc… that the true church is the Catholic church!

Welcome home!

That statement is certainly not meant to undermine people worshipping in other churches, as I’m sure, that ultimately a relationship with the Lord can be found through a variety of avenues!

Indeed, the Catholic Faith recognizes all our Christian brothers. But we continue to work to bring them to the fold. It can be very difficult, but through prayer, charitibility and love- I’m sure we will all be under the same Church again.

But once one realises that the traditions of the Catholic church are still implemented because the Catholic church has the direct teachings of Jesus from St Peter… unfortunately, other christian denominational and non-denominational churches are in an essence flawed, because Martin Luther and his predecessors were just men… and the word of God should not be interpreted by man alone, but by our Father, alone!!

This is not to mention that the Catholic Church is the only church who has the scholastic and hence theological background to properly interpret the Old and the New Testament into languages other than those used by Biblical writers… and hence, must be the only true church with any ability of being able to teach the owrd of God in way that most closely represents the truth! … sorry that justifcation was so long winded… but these are some of the things that have enabled me to realise that the Catholic church is the one true church of Jesus! Amen!

 

[ABalch]

originally posted by John Mazar
*Semper Fi,

I do go to Confession in the form of Communal Reconciliation Service with General Absolution twice a year at Easter and Christmas. I will never go to Individual Confession ever again.*

I found this in a different discussion regarding General Absolution.

Can. 961 §1 General absolution, without prior individual confession, cannot be given to a number of penitents together, unless:

1° danger of death threatens and there is not time for the priest or priests to hear the confessions of the individual penitents;

2° there exists a grave necessity, that is, given the number of penitents, there are not enough confessors available properly to hear the individual confessions within an appropriate time, so that without fault of their own the penitents are deprived of the sacramental grace or of holy communion for a lengthy period of time. A sufficient necessity is not, however, considered to exist when confessors cannot be available merely because of a great gathering of penitents, such as can occur on some major feastday or pilgrimage.

§2 It is for the diocesan Bishop to judge whether the conditions required in §1, n. 2 are present; mindful of the criteria agreed with the other members of the Episcopal Conference, he can determine the cases of such necessity.

Can. 962 §1 For a member of Christ’s faithful to benefit validly from a sacramental absolution given to a number of people simultaneously, it is required not only that he or she be properly disposed, but be also at the same time personally resolved to confess in due time each of the grave sins which cannot for the moment be thus confessed.

§2 Christ’s faithful are to be instructed about the requirements set out in §1, as far as possible even on the occasion of general absolution being received. An exhortation that each person should make an act of contrition is to precede a general absolution, even in the case of danger of death if there is time.

Can. 963 Without prejudice to the obligation mentioned in can. 989, a person whose grave sins are forgiven by a general absolution, is as soon as possible, when the opportunity occurs, to make an individual confession before receiving another general absolution, unless a just reason intervenes.

 

[jsenner]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that Protestant communion was not valid even if they believed in the Real Presence because they don’t have someone capable of effecting the transformation of the bread and wine.

Could someone point me towards historical references supporting that only the Apostles or their successors can do this? The earlier the better! Starting with the New Testament…

I don’t know all the Catholic terms yet… learning though!

Jeremiah

 

[Joseph_Kopsho]

I totally disregard that stupid man made Catholic rule about Catholics not receiving Holy Communion in the Protestant Church. When my brother got married and became Methodist I attended the Methodist Church a couple of times and I received Holy Communion each time in the Methodist Church. Now my brother is a member of a Non Denominational Church and one of these Sundays when they have Holy Communion I plan on attending church services at their Non Denominational Church and receive Holy Communion.

 

[aria13]

Finally, a question that I can relate to, and yet ask another in return! Many Lutheran churches DO allow every BELIEVER IN CHRIST to partake in Holy Communion, which is a sacrament in the Lutheran church. When one takes communion it is a very personal experience. What one believes is also personal…whether one believes the bread and wine represent OR actually are the body and blood of Christ is something that everyone has to chose on his/her own. SO, to take communion at another church should NOT be a sin, or be looked down on. It shouldn’t go against your faith because you are sharing this time with other believers.
I am dating a Catholic man, and I don’t go to Communion with him because I’m not “supposed to.” I taught at a Catholic school 2 years ago and loved it, yet I, along with the other non-Catholics felt left out because we couldn’t partake of a very holy time in church. Now, here’s my question…and this isn’t just in the Catholic church that this happens, but also in some Protestant faiths as well. IF we teach that we are to live as Christ, and we all know that he taught to love everyone…and he would NEVER turn anyone away from his table, aren’t the faiths that don’t allow ALL believers to take Holy Communion going against his teachings? He told all believers to come and eat with him. ALL believers are to take and eat, take and drink. By not allowing everyone to do this, you are not ministering to everyone…just those select few that believe as you do. That’s not very Christ like. That’s actually going totally against what Christ taught his followers. He said to go and minister to all, make disciples of all nations. AND he also rebuked those that turned people away. Isn’t that what is being done when Communion is denied?
This is just one of my many questions that I can’t get answered. I have asked several priests, many of whom I am good friends with, but they can’t really answer them either. I just can’t get an answer that REALLY answers my questions.
OHH…and I’ve been reading older posts and here’s some insight or my views…I’ve been a Lutheran all my life, and was a youth director at my church for 5 years, and NEVER ONCE was the Pope ever called the anti-Christ. How horrible to accuse someone of that!! But it’s also pretty bad to lump all Lutheran’s into a group that supposedly does that. Also, when a protestant faith says the Nicene Creed in church and say “the holy catholic church” it is not capitalized. It means the whole church…all believers. Catholic capitalized is the Roman Catholic Church. Look in your creed…it’s not capitalized either, for the same reason. Just some reflections.

 

[Lillith]

jsenner:

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that Protestant communion was not valid even if they believed in the Real Presence because they don’t have someone capable of effecting the transformation of the bread and wine.

Could someone point me towards historical references supporting that only the Apostles or their successors can do this? The earlier the better! Starting with the New Testament…

I don’t know all the Catholic terms yet… learning though!

Jeremiah

Hello Jeremiah! Nice to meet you…

Here…we see Jesus giving Peter the Keys of Heaven:

Matt.16:13-19…(.paraphrased)…Jesus asks who do people say the son of man is and the disciples were throwing out names left and right…not unlike Jeopardy…Ellijah! John the Baptist! A prophet! and he turns to Simon Peter and asked him…Simon Peter says “The son of the living God” 17. Jesus replied "Blest are you, Simon son of Jonah! No mere man has revealed this to you but my heavenly father…You are rock and on this rock I will build my Church, and the jaws of death will not prevail against it. 18. I will entrust you the keys of Heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in Heaven; Whatever you declare loosed on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven

In John Ch. 20:21-23…Jesus has resurrected and tells the Apostles “As the Father has sent me so I send you” He breathes on them and says receive the Holy Spirit…and gives them the authority to forgive sins

This handing down of Authority over his Church…with Peter as the Head (no one but Peter received the Keys) is called apostolic sucession…it is the reason that no other Church can validly change the Bread and the wine to the body and blood of Jesus…they broke away from the church and cannot validly proclaim anything…only the Bishop in Rome has that authority

 

[John666]

jsenner and aria13,

Welcome to the Forums. Some of your concerns and questions are addressed earlier in this thread, post #'s 3,4,5, 41,56,58,60, etc. Try reading from the beginning (again?)…

and in another thread

Episcopal
Rellinger

rayne89 http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_cad/user_online.gif vbmenu_register(“postmenu_1025543”, true);
Senior Member
Book Club Member
Join Date: October 4, 2004
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Posts: 1,984

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Episcopal
Catechism of the Catholic Church
1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."240

vatican.va/archive/ccc_c…sm/p2s2c1a3.htm

This is the official teaching of the church. So yes in the eyes of the Church it is wrong. As a Catholic we are called to obedient despite our feelings since Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would guide the church in “all truth”. You can feel all kinds of things are ok but it doesn’t mean that they are.

If you came here seeking the church’s instructions on the matter you now have it.

---

**"**I wish none of this had happened."
"So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us "
– J.R.R. Tolkien

Also, here is some Scripture references on Church unity.

Jn 10:16 there shall be on fold and one shepherd
Eph. 4:3-6 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father
Rom. 16:17 avoid those who create dissentions
1 Cor. 1:10 I urge that there be no divisions among you
Phil 2:2 be of same mind united in heart
Rom 15:5 God grant that you think in harmony with one another
Jn 17:17-23 I pray that they may be one, as we are one

Some other early Father writings:

St. Cyprian- (c. 250 AD): God is one and Christ is one, and one is His Church, and the faith is one, and His people welded together by the glue of concord into a solid unity of body. Unity cannot be rent assunder, nor can the one body of the Church, through the division of its structure, be divided into seperate pieces. (On the Unity of the Church 23

Tertullian (197 AD): We are a society with a single religious feeling, a single unity of discipline, a single bond of hope. (Apology 39, 1)

aria13 Also, when a protestant faith says the Nicene Creed in church and say "the holy catholic church" it is not capitalized. It means the whole church....all believers. Catholic capitalized is the Roman Catholic Church. Look in your creed...it's not capitalized either, for the same reason. Just some reflections.

When the creed was put together THERE WAS only One Church … the one, holy, catholic and Apostolic church. The small “c” didn’t matter. Today, the small “c” meaning is contained in the big “C”.

I hope that helps. God loves you.

Later,

Joe

 

[jsenner]

Thanks for your replies!

I found one very early instance of the teaching about only the successors of the apostles being able to make a valid Eucharist… Ignatius in 107 AD.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

So it appears that this must have been the teaching from the Apostles…

Jeremiah

 

[aria13]

John:

I beg to differ on your reference to there being only one church when the Nicene creed was first written. Where the Catholic church may have been “the” church at the time there were other beliefs as well. Come to think of it…I think the Jewish faith has been around a lot longer. The Catholic faith was there as a “join or die” kind of faith. Only the educated could truly understand what was being said during Mass and many people were so afraid of being damned to hell for all eternity by the church that they would believe anything. Case in point: Luther was furious and very confused as a young monk when he found the Pope and those around him taking money to “buy your way and the way of your loved ones into Heaven” or rather help pay for the new cathedral that was running short on funds.

The Nicene Creed went through many changes since 325 C.E. Pope Leo had it engraved on St. Peter’s Basillica without the filioque. The Roman Catholic church accepted it again in 1014, but it is still not accepted by the Eastern Orthodox churches. The word “catholic” means “one…whole.” Meaning, ALL believers in Christ. NOT JUST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH! When Christ spoke of one unified body of believers, he didn’t mean the Catholic church. I know scripture…he doesn’t speak of the Catholic church EVER! It’s not mentioned anywhere in the Bible. ALL believers are His church. ALL believers are to “take and eat, take and drink” Like I said before, Christ turned NO ONE away from His table. The orders that the Catholic church as well as many Protestant faiths go by are MAN MADE!!! They are NOT doctrined in the scripture.

You quoted many scripture passages telling about no division amongst believers, to not deal with those that cause dissention, but when people pick and choose who is to take communion isn’t that dividing? Would Christ look at this as “Christlike?” Laws and rules for the churches are man made…Look at the history of faiths and churches. Men keep changing rules…and not always for the better.

I understand that churches teach and preach their beliefs to the children and then they are to follow this the rest of their lives. BUT that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t question things especially when it seems very “two faced.” When scripture teaches unity and one body in those that love and live in Christ, and the church shows quite another it’s very confusing. So, John, although you have told me what the church teaches you and the stand it takes, you also pointed out scripture that goes against those same values. If I, as an adult, am confused about how I could accept this if I were to take RCIA classes, imagine how children feel. No wonder there are always “jokes” or humor at least about the guilt that is place upon Catholic children/adults. Show me HOW and WHERE the chuch came up with these ideas. Show me that Christ spoke about the Catholic church and said “This is the church of the world” and I will believe it. But I don’t think you can because there has been far too much controversy throughout history.

Please don’t take this as my trying to “fight” with someone…I am honestly very curious about this. RCIA classes just started where I live, and would go…but I’m afraid I’d question too much. My Lutheran background is VERY strong, I was a youth director, and I’m also educated…something that many churches dislike…educated woman.

Have a blessed weeked everyone.

 

[John666]

aria13:

John:

I beg to differ on your reference to there being only one church when the Nicene creed was first written. Where the Catholic church may have been "the" church at the time there were other beliefs as well. Come to think of it...I think the Jewish faith has been around a lot longer.

Yes, please excuse me. I was in a hurry when I posted last time. The Catholic Church was “the” only “Christian Church” of the time.

The Catholic faith was there as a "join or die" kind of faith.

I disagree here. The Catholic Church at different time periods and different cultures may have been what you quote “join or die’kind of faith”, but I do not believe there are any instances between Pentecost thru until maybe the late 500’s.

Only the educated could truly understand what was being said during Mass and many people were so afraid of being damned to hell for all eternity by the church that they would believe anything.

Again, you may be correct … later on in Church history. Not in the first several hundred years.

Case in point: Luther was furious and very confused as a young monk when he found the Pope and those around him taking money to "buy your way and the way of your loved ones into Heaven" or rather help pay for the new cathedral that was running short on funds.

As well he should have been! Other clergy and laity were also furious. The Church, throughout its history has always been in need of reform or its people. NOT doctrine or dogma. There are great saints who have stood up to point out to the Church its errors. Again, not doctrinally OR dogmatically! St. Francis of Assisi, St. Catherine of Sienna to name a few. Luther went wrong in declaring HIMSELF pope (so to speak), and throwing out the Teaching Magisterium and Sacred Tradition of the Christian Church and standing on his individual interpretation of the Bible and the man made bible alone doctrine.

Remember, the Church is in constant need of reform. It is a divine AND human Church. The Church’s doctrines and dogma’s has never changed.

The Nicene Creed went through many changes since 325 C.E. Pope Leo had it engraved on St. Peter's Basillica without the filioque. The Roman Catholic church accepted it again in 1014, but it is still not accepted by the Eastern Orthodox churches. The word "catholic" means "one...whole." Meaning, ALL believers in Christ. NOT JUST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!

Well, again, the small “c” meaning is contained in the big “C” defintion.

When Christ spoke of one unified body of believers, he didn't mean the Catholic church. I know scripture...he doesn't speak of the Catholic church EVER! It's not mentioned anywhere in the Bible. ALL believers are His church.

Matt. 28:18-20 go baptize and teach all nations (whole, universal, catholic.)

And, I submit, even non-believers are part of His Church. We are accountable for what we know. But I don’t want to go off in different tangents.

ALL believers are to "take and eat, take and drink" Like I said before, Christ turned NO ONE away from His table. The orders that the Catholic church as well as many Protestant faiths go by are MAN MADE!!! They are NOT doctrined in the scripture.

Matt. 9:6-8 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins -he then said to the paralytic, Rise pick up your steatcher, and go home. He rose and went home. When the crowds saw this they were struck with awe and glorified God who had given such authority to human beings.

Jesus, of course, delegated this authority to His apostles (One Church then as well as now). Matt. 28:18-20

Jn. 20:23 power to forgive sins
1 Cor.11:23-24 power to offer sacrifice (Eucharist)
Lk 10:16 power to speak with Christ’s voice
Mt 18:17-18 power to legislate and discipline

Taking communion is being in full communion with Christ AND the church who gives it … otherwise, it would be a lie.

con’t

 

[John666]

You quoted many scripture passages telling about no division amongst believers, to not deal with those that cause dissention, but when people pick and choose who is to take communion isn't that dividing?

No. The people are the ones who choose. Either be in communion with the Church or not. Attested to in Scripture and early father writings.

 Would Christ look at this as "Christlike?"

Of course. Christ does not want us to lie and make believe everything is “hunky-dory” when there are essential beliefs Catholic/Protestant, Protestant/Protestant disagree on.

Laws and rules for the churches are man made...Look at the history of faiths and churches. Men keep changing rules...and not always for the better. 
 
I understand that churches teach and preach their beliefs to the children and then they are to follow this the rest of their lives. BUT that doesn't mean that you shouldn't question things especially when it seems very "two faced." When scripture teaches unity and one body in those that love and live in Christ,

But it is not just believing in Christ, loving and living in Christ. We are to be One in faith, doctrine, etc…

and the church shows quite another it's very confusing. So, John, although you have told me what the church teaches you and the stand it takes, you also pointed out scripture that goes against those same values.

Please explain what you mean, here, in bold above.

If I, as an adult, am confused about how I could accept this if I were to take RCIA classes, imagine how children feel. No wonder there are always "jokes" or humor at least about the guilt that is place upon Catholic children/adults. Show me HOW and WHERE the chuch came up with these ideas.

“came up with these ideas”?? What are you referring to?

Show me that Christ spoke about the Catholic church and said "This is the church of the world" and I will believe it. But I don't think you can because there has been far too much controversy throughout history.

What controversy? you mean after Luther? The controversy in Church history comes after the deformation and now we have thosands of Christian churches. That’s controversy!

Please don't take this as my trying to "fight" with someone...I am honestly very curious about this.

I believe others on the forums can help you out more with your curiousity. Ask an Apologist for example… Ask an Apologist

RCIA classes just started where I live, and would go...but I'm afraid I'd question too much.

Hey, maybe your just the saint they need ;- ). I don’t think you should be afraid. Somewhere in Scripture it says, “come let us reason together”. If you do go I hope your questions are answered. But, I believe you came to an orthodox website/forums to have your questions answered.

Ask away! And have fun in charity/love. Ha! I just hope I’m not the only one trying to answer you. My knowledge IS limited and there are many brothers and sisters Catholic/Protestant etc… on here that can help you.

My Lutheran background is VERY strong, I was a youth director, and I'm also educated...something that many churches dislike...educated woman. :) 
 
Have a blessed weeked everyone.

Your education is a gift. Share it humbly.

God bless you evermore,

Joe

 

[John666]

jsenner:

Thanks for your replies!

I found one very early instance of the teaching about only the successors of the apostles being able to make a valid Eucharist… Ignatius in 107 AD.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

So it appears that this must have been the teaching from the Apostles…

Jeremiah

Amen Jeremiah