Communion in both kinds/species - are both better than one?

[Uriel1]

Uriel1:

The magisterium itself says that; were you aware of that ?

Could we have a citation for this, please? Properly referenced.

Quandoque bonus dormitat Homerus (Although even Homer nods), I try to only speak as I am taught, but since you doubt me I will give you what you seek on my source, which you should also know, on “the superiority of the Word of God over the Magisterium of the Church.” I am though somewhat surprised that you did not know this, and doubted me.

Caritate non ficta

CCC86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

 

[sudy]

I am though somewhat surprised that you did not know this, and doubted me.

I do know the Magisterium is the servant of God… it does everything it its power to serve God as it has been given all authority under heaven to teach the faith. Asking for a citation doesn’t automatically mean that I necessarily doubt what you’re saying… my reason for asking was that I wanted you to show exactly what you meant in how the Magisterium is subservient to the word of God. The potential problem is that the word of God is often used simultaneous to mean the bible, even though the bible came from the Church and not the other way around. The word subservient instead of servant threw me as it could suggest that the Magisterium is inferior to the bible regarding matters of faith and morals… and potentially other people’s bible interpretations, when in fact the Magisterium are the teaching authority. I wanted to see the details to clarify your position.

 

[KMG]

“Uriel’s” views on this thread are simply not Catholic.

 

[Uriel1]

Proverbs 26:5 tells us to:
“Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.”

I am completely Catholic and absolutely agree with the magisterium that it is not superior to God’s Word

CCC86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

Caritate non ficta

 

[JimG]

The Magisterium of the Church is the authentic guardian and interpreter of the deposit of Faith. Catholics don’t try to use the Bible against the Magisterium, that’s a Protestant tactic, making each individual his own unique magisterium, which leads to doctrinal chaos.

In fact, the Church could decide, as a purely practical matter, to limit the distribution of communion to the faithful to the host only. It could even decide to limit reception of communion to once a month, for example. These are matters of discipline, not doctrine.

 

[stpurl]

So you pick out one example that you think can ‘prove your point’(and Thistle was listing ‘bullet points’ of all your attempts to justify a wrong interpretation you keep on presenting as ‘fact’) the fact is, you were using the pulled quote about the Magesterium in a way that implied that Jesus’ words in Scripture about eating and drinking made the magesterium WRONG when the Church had reception of the Eucharist under one species only, and you used that quote to try to prove the point. . .

but the fact is, that it was the interpretation that YOU gave to Jesus’s words in ‘take and eat’, that it was directed at EVERY SINGLE CATHOLIC and that the Magesterium was therefore wrong when it prudentially decided to administer one species instead of two that you were trying to claim was ‘proved’ by the “The Church magisterium, undoubtedly subservient to God’s word”.

Jesus’ words are true; it is your interpretation that is false.

Now you’re trying to play, "See, I’m right, here’s the documents proving the quote is correct

But Thistle wasn’t arguing that the quote was wrong.

Thistle was showing that you were using quotes in an attempt to justify your interpretation was correct.

It wasn’t, and isn’t.

Jesus, in speaking to His disciples and saying, “take (the bread) and take (the wine), eat and drink”, was what every single Catholic was supposed to do from then on, and the Catholic Church was not wrong when it had the reception of communion under one species only.

You’re still wrong.

 

[Uriel1]

You mustn’t engage in calumny.
[/quote]

As a deacon you must know that

God love you

 

[KMG]

Uriel’s position is quite simple: Jesus said X, and I interpret X to mean drink the Communion wine at Mass, and so when the Church did not administer the Eucharist under the species of wine, the Church was somehow unfaithful to what Christ said.

That is an outrageous opinion, and not remotely Catholic. It is Protestant to the core.

 

[Uriel1]

Uriel’s position is quite simple: Jesus said X, and I interpret X to mean drink the Communion wine at Mass, and so when the Church did not administer the Eucharist under the species of wine, the Church was somehow unfaithful to what Christ said.

That is an outrageous opinion, and not remotely Catholic. It is Protestant to the core.

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.

I have never represented any opinion against the teaching of the magisterium, the Holy Spirit, nor the word of God. You dishonour yourself in saying that.

I do have a problem with parishes which refuse the more complete sign, and
I do have a problem with those who say black is white Matt 7:15 to lead us astray

Caritas non ficta
God love you

 

[Fauken]

I have never represented any opinion against the teaching of the magisterium, the Holy Spirit, nor the word of God. You dishonour yourself in saying that.

I do have a problem with parishes which refuse the more complete sign, and
I do have a problem with those who say black is white Matt 7:15 to lead us astray

You’ve yet to prove that your interpretation of signs is what the Magisterium teaches, to start.

 

[KMG]

Uriel is simply agenda posting to push relentlessly his personal view that all parishes should offer Communion under both species and that to do otherwise is somehow unfaithful to Christ’s teaching.

 

[thistle]

My overall impression of Uriel1 is that he is essentially a Sola Scriptura person putting his own private interpretation on Bible verses and if anyone, including the Church, disagrees with him then they are wrong!!

 

[RandomAlias]

Sola Scriptura and a sprinkling of Latin phrases make an interesting combination.

 

[KMG]

He throws out scripture quotes and a smattering of Latin to bully people into silence.

 

[Uriel1]

Sola Scriptura and a sprinkling of Latin phrases make an interesting combination.

As a cradle Catholic I was brought up with, and fully support, the “three legged stool” picture of
scripture, tradition and the magisterium.

The magisterium itself says that it is not superior to God’s Word

I am completely Catholic and absolutely agree with the magisterium’s position in the Catechism;

CCC86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

I’m sorry to have to repeat this from Proverbs 26:5 which tells us to:
“Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.”

Caritate non ficta

 

[thistle]

I am completely Catholic and absolutely agree with the magisterium’s position in the Catechism;

You specifically said the Magisterium got it wrong on this issue. When it comes to faith and morals the Church cannot be in error.
YOU are in error when you say the Magisterium is wrong.

I quoted all your words in a previous post which you ignored!

 

[sudy]

CCC 87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.

Uriel, you’re right to follow the teachings of Christ in the best way you can and to follow your conscience… however, where you are wrong is with the arguments in this thread against the Magisterium, you’re becoming a stumbling block for other Catholics… and saying that the Magisterium got it wrong is wrong in itself… they’re the ones with God-given authority. All these ‘fool’ quotes against one’s brothers and sisters is very uncharitable, too.

 

[KMG]

If Uriel were “sorry” to post insulting quotes from Scripture against other people, he would stop posting them over and over.

 

[RandomAlias]

I’m sorry to have to repeat this from Proverbs 26:5 which tells us to:
“Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.”

I noticed that you repeat that passage often, but I do not understand why you feel that you “have to.”

I assume that in your interpretation, you are the one answering, and others are the fools. If you consider someone foolish (or erroneous), there is no need to call out their foolishness. That is a form of detraction. Furthermore, that is not the purpose of sacred Scripture.

It would be better to simply teach, or correct, or explain. If others do not come around to your way of thinking, do not despair. You will have done your part, and said what you wanted to say, and who knows, maybe it will do some unseen good.

 

[RandomAlias]

there is no need to call out their foolishness. That is a form of detraction.

Now that I think of it, it is detraction if you are right, and rash judgement if you are wrong. CCC 2477-2478