Communion in other kinds?

[Richard320]

For any Sacrament to be Valid, it has to satisfy three things:
Form
Matter
Intention.

Form: The Eucharist can only be confected during a Mass. And the proper words have to be said. That’s why there is a Tabernacle with the reserve hosts in it - in case of urgent need, like Viaticum for the dying. There may not be time to have a priest say a whole Mass. The priest cannot just hold it up and say “The Body of Christ” and have it change.

Matter: Wheat and water. Nothing else for the host. The wine must be plain grape, and fermented. Not doritos, not a tortilla, not a loaf of french bread, not a bag of Thanksgiving stuffing croutons. Nor Hawaiian Punch, grape juice, or apple juice instead of wine. (Although tomato juice would do a lot to improve the visual aspect of it )

Intention: Only the wine and bread the priest intends to Consecrate are Consecrated. The ziplock bag of hosts in the drawer back in the Sacristy are not Consecrated. Nor is the case of unopened bottles of altar wine. And someone can’t sneak their own wine and wafers in to have them Consecrated by proximity.

If this weren’t true, you’d end up with a situation like King Midas, except instead of Gold, everything solid would become the Body of Christ, and everything liquid would be the Blood of Christ. And then the question becomes, “How far does the Consecration extend? Line of sight? Within hearing? 100 meters? Parish border?”

 

[Elizium23]

Read the whole story, please.

(1) This is not the Didache.
(2) This says there was a controversy and the Fathers set to judge the baptism’s validity could not agree.
(3) He was baptized in the Jordan after all, casting even more doubt on its validity.
(4) This is from an Eastern Orthodox site. As you know, each faith tradition has its pious legends. This may amount to no more than a pious legend according to the Orthodox; I have never heard it in Catholic Tradition.

 

[andrewstx]

Actually the mormons use wonder bread and tap water.

And there are an awful lot of Evangelicals that substitute grape juice for wine.

 

[choliks]

@cholicks - I stated my question as such because there was mention of the medieval Church doing some of these thing. Also, I do know of circumstances where pastors will “fudge” on the bread and wine by mixing them with other things. I wanted to exclude such a practice from this thread.

It is still a negative. Sorry my friend.

 

[onceablasphemer]

Actually the mormons use wonder bread and tap water.

And there are an awful lot of Evangelicals that substitute grape juice for wine.

I wonder what the Mormons will do now that Hostess has shut down.

 

[Jimmygill88]

And the wine must contain alcohol

 

[ndismyhome]

So, the official policy is bread and wine (Iassume because that’s what Christ used), but a seminary decided it could do contrary the the Church body and scripture? My dad went to Philadelphia Mt. Airy. I bet they didn’t do that when he was there.

Sigh. I know.

IOW, let’s be contrary to the scripture and confessions.

Yep.

I can’t think of an emergency circumstance that would require us to be contrary to His testament.

Me either.

I hope you’re not buying into this.

Well, not yet anyways.

 

[ndismyhome]

It is still a negative. Sorry my friend.

I’m not in disagreement. I was simply trying to clarify my question, as you felt the need to change what I asked.

 

[Nine_Two]

You’re going to need to provide a quote with a link or something, because I can find no reference to sand in the Didache or secondary sources commenting on it. In fact, Google didn’t even know what I was talking about, and suggested “didache and baptism” when I asked for “didache sand baptism”

You’re right, I’m misremembering things. JonNC posted a link that flushes it out.

While you’re right that it was controversial, I only claimed there was precedent. It is certainly far from normal.