Communion in the Hand?

  • Thread starter Thread starter nsper7
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Layman, I understand what you are trying to do, but you have to go into that question with your preconceived notions to come up with your conclusion.

Since you subjectively phrased the points and added editorialization, well, it was rhetorical and not something that could be actually answered objectively.

You can’t compare the two forms (as far as reverence of the participants) until they are both equally available and attended.
For me I think the clearest difference is how many pro-abort politician bumper stickers are on the cars of those who attended the Novus Ordo, versus those who attend the TLM. You won’t find it on the cars of those who attend the TLM, but at the Novus Ordo, especially here in the north (can’t speak for the south), it’s very, very common. In fact, I saw a pagan bumper sticker on the car of an NO attendee the other day. :eek:
 
For me I think the clearest difference is how many pro-abort politician bumper stickers are on the cars of those who attended the Novus Ordo, versus those who attend the TLM. You won’t find it on the cars of those who attend the TLM, but at the Novus Ordo, especially here in the north (can’t speak for the south), it’s very, very common. In fact, I saw a pagan bumper sticker on the car of an NO attendee the other day. :eek:
Yes, but the TLM is still a niche. People seek it out. Everyone who goes, goes on purpose to a TLM, not just to Mass.

Right now, you can’t compare the two, other than to say that the few people who seek out attendance at a TLM seem to be x more than NO attendees. *x *could be a variety of things, but, I think that says more about the attendees of the form rather than the form itself.

Wait, did I just agree with you? no, until the two forms are attended equally, you can’t really make judgments about the attendees.
 
Let’s cut to the nub of the matter (I hope):

Or a Mass where:
  • Lay women can read sacred scripture, bare-headed, in the sanctuary, in their naturally high-pitched voices;
  • Women can go bareheaded in the pews and in the sanctuary, so other women can ‘assess’ them and men can 'give ‘em the once-over’, even if they’d rather not; it’s instinctive and automatic;
I find it hard to understand how the second style of Mass can be considered as good as the first.
Would you care to explain why you object to these two items, in particular?

The first is nonsensical, the second nonsensical and insulting.

What is wrong with a woman’s high-pitched voice?

And are you saying that women spend their time at Mass looking at other women’s hair? And that the average man finds uncovered female hair a turn-on? My goodness, you must know some strange people.
 
I’ve read on this forum that it’s in the Bible that women’s voices are not to be heard in the synagogue, nor are they to go bare-headed there. St. Paul, I think.

Regardless, high pitched voices; women’s, children’s, are taken less seriously. Who tends to dominate a room in a social gathering? The tallest man with the deepest voice.

Women compete with each other on their appearance: “Look at so-and-so, what is she wearing …?”

They also use their appearance to attract men. That doesn’t belong in a church. [Sarcasm:] Unless all these young ladies nowadays just want to get as complete a tan as possible, by wearing as little as possible? Even at night? Figure-hugging clothes, so as to … I dunno … do acrobatics?

In the old days most men wore hats; they showed respect by doffing them to their betters, to women and to Christ in the church.

Found this via a quick search on Google:

incommunion.org/forest-flier/nancysessays/st-paul-and-women/ (it’s Protestant, I think)

*1 Corinthians 11:3-16 Paul writes: “But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” He goes on to say that “any woman who prays or prophesies” should keep her head covered, whereas a man should never cover his head, “since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)”

In 1 Corinthians 14:33-35, Paul gives us the famous injunction, “… women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” This theme is taken up again in 1 Timothy 2:11-15, where women are instructed to dress modestly and to keep silent in church: “For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.”*
 
=savienu;5004985]First of all, I ABSOLUTELY do. Secondly, it is IN the MISSAL that they give you at Mass, that all are to bow during these 2 lines. Instead, no one does anything.
Dear mom,

May God bless you and your superabundently!

Are we speaking of the same missal?

And I though the issue was genuflection?

My Parish Missal gives to directions (that like so many other things in the NO Mass, are IGNORED) to bow our heads at the words:“Born of the Virgin Mary and became fleash”…

So if that is what you are speaking about, good for you! I bow too!👍

Love and prayers,
 
Women compete with each other on their appearance: “Look at so-and-so, what is she wearing …?”

They also use their appearance to attract men. That doesn’t belong in a church. [Sarcasm:] Unless all these young ladies nowadays just want to get as complete a tan as possible, by wearing as little as possible? Even at night? Figure-hugging clothes, so as to … I dunno … do acrobatics?

.”
I certainly agree with you over figure-hugging clothing.

But that was not what you said. You were complaining about women having uncovered hair. You didn’t mention clothing.
 
Matthew 17:14
14 When they came to the crowd a man approached, knelt down before him,

Mark 1:40
40 A leper came to him (and kneeling down) begged him and said, “If you wish, you can make me clean.”

Luke 5:8
8 When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at the knees of Jesus and said, “Depart from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man.”

Romans 14:11
11 for it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.”

When I approach Jesus on the day of judgment,the same Jesus I receive at the Sacrifice of the Mass,I don’t think I’ll be will sticking out my hand to Him,I’ll be on my knees or prostrated before Him,but that’s just me.
.
Not to be disrespectful, but I wonder how many will be sticking out their tongue to Him.
 
“Humility is a condition of the heart, not the position of the knee.”

The latter reinforces the former. It is the outer sign of the supposed inner condition. Kneeling is also an outer sign of respect, to our dear King.

By your reasoning, one could also receive humbly standing on one leg. While dressed as a ballet dancer. “Humility is a condition of the heart …” and all.

The question remains: Why, when one can humble oneself by receiving communion, kneeling, on the tongue, would anyone persist in taking it standing, in the hand?/QUOT

Could one receive it on one’s knees dressed as a ballet dancer? What if one was a ballet dancer? So much for your reasoning as well.
 
Maybe you know who Michael Davies is.🤷 He wrote a book called “The Tridentine Mass.” He was a convert who passed away not very long ago. In his book, he opens with a quote by John Henry Newman: “Nothing is so consoling, so piercing, so thrilling, so overcoming, as the Mass, said as it is among us. I could attend Mass forever, and not be tired. . .”(He’s referring to the Tridentine Mass).

The forward of the book is entitled, “The Mass That Will Not Die.” This was actually an article that appeared in “The Catholic Register” (Canada) on May 25, 1985. It was written by the editor, Larry Henderson (a convertt) and describes his participation for the first time in the traditional Mass of the Roman Rite. The rite of this Mass was described by Father Faber as “the most beautiful thing this side of heaven.”

After reading this book, one is more inclined to adhere to the rubrics of this “worthy” rite. A brief summary of Part I–Visible Sacrifice reminds us that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is “our most precious possession” and should be celebrated in a manner worthy of the “awe-inspiring Sacrifice.”:harp:
 
“But that was not what you said. You were complaining about women having uncovered hair. You didn’t mention clothing.”

I mentioned figure-hugging clothing to re-inforce my point about women competing with each other and to attract men, which they also do by growing their hair long, coiffuring it and colouring it.

Copied from a website:

"1 Corinthians 11:14-15: “Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is glory to her?”

So a woman covers her head in Church, as an act of humilty, and it’s one less distraction to others.

“Could one receive it on one’s knees dressed as a ballet dancer? What if one was a ballet dancer? So much for your reasoning as well.”

Now I think you’re misrepresenting what I said. The thrust of which was: external appearance affects your inner condition and also people around you. We take our cues on how to behave in public from other people present in a gathering, unless we’re in charge.

Kneel and receive on the tongue in humility if the option is there. Also as a sign of respect to a King. If he heeded everything one felt, internally, the world would be in chaos.

**So I guess we pray out loud and perform external rites. Those are definite. That which we hope and wish to be heeded by Him. **

“Not to be disrespectful, but I wonder how many will be sticking out their tongue to Him.”

They won’t need to. On the day of Judgement, instead of receiving him in the Host, He’ll be right in front of them.
 
I respect our parish priest for his desire to lead his flock to maintain respect and reverence during Mass. He tries very hard.

I have seen many parishioners receive on tongue. I thought I would do so today. He smiled when I bent and presented myself to receive Our Lord’s Body. Father is not very tall but is a mountain of a priest.

I think I will continue to do so.I actually think it was more appropriate because I was always careful to make certain I did not move or position my hand in any way to risk losing any particles until I returned to my place and made certain not particles remained.

We do receive under both species. I find it difficult relating to the “receive” versus “take” comments since I have to (take from/receive from) the minister the cup of Our Lord’s blood.

The reverence issues at communion in today’s church go far and beyond the issue of in the hand or on the tongue. Devout reception means to fold your hands, not put them in your pocket or swagger while they hang at your side. I am certain we could write a book just by attending one Mass and making notes.

I think the worst violation of all is leaving the Mass while still chewing His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity as you walk out the door to beat the rush to IHOP…

Eddie Mac
 
I respect our parish priest for his desire to lead his flock to maintain respect and reverence during Mass. He tries very hard.

I have seen many parishioners receive on tongue. I thought I would do so today. He smiled when I bent and presented myself to receive Our Lord’s Body. Father is not very tall but is a mountain of a priest.

I think I will continue to do so.I actually think it was more appropriate because I was always careful to make certain I did not move or position my hand in any way to risk losing any particles until I returned to my place and made certain not particles remained.

We do receive under both species. I find it difficult relating to the “receive” versus “take” comments since I have to (take from/receive from) the minister the cup of Our Lord’s blood.

The reverence issues at communion in today’s church go far and beyond the issue of in the hand or on the tongue. Devout reception means to fold your hands, not put them in your pocket or swagger while they hang at your side. I am certain we could write a book just by attending one Mass and making notes.

I think the worst violation of all is leaving the Mass while still chewing His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity as you walk out the door to beat the rush to IHOP…

Eddie Mac
I must tell all of you what one of my Roman Rite pastors did one Sunday, even though it broke fire code laws- he had the doors locked so no one could leave until the last verse of the last hymn at Mass was sung! No one in that parish ever got in the “IHOP rush” again. Too bad such a thing had to be done to enforce and/or get folks to practice reverence or at least good manners in church.

Fr. Patrick was very good at devising pointed solutions to numerous problems- the most irritating to him was lack of reverence and awe for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass or, inmy Orthodox faith- what we call Divine Liturgy.

Just couldn’t resist sharing this with all of you.
Rob
 
What I’m TRYING to say (which has been stated so much better in earlier posts) is that although people should not be judging one another by superficial standards of dress, nonetheless, people do. Even more important is our attitude of worship to God.
Hi rookie,

I think you have really summarized the point of this entire discussion right here, and it’s really *much *bigger than the whole petty communion in the hand debate. Quite frankly, I could care less if CITH disappeared tomorrow. I’ve received communion in probably every acceptable way there is through my years. In the hand, on the tongue, kneeling, standing, at the communion rail, by intinction, from priests, deacons, EMHC’s, bishops and cardinals.

It quite frankly matters not one iota to me which way I receive communion, nor does it alter my disposition in the slightest. As long as it is being legitimately distributed I will usually follow whatever the norm is in the parish where I am at Mass. That is NOT however because I care about someone judging my personal preference but because I don’t want to draw attention to myself, and away from what people should be focusing on, but possibly drawing someone into judgment and becoming a stumbling block to them. I take my cue in that from Paul in his discourse on not eating meat from the idol temples, not because it was sinful but because it upset some who thought it was sinful.

As you acknowledge, there is a human tendency to focus on externals even though it is wrong to do so. I notice that my question about my being judged less acceptable than someone in a suit receiving kneeling and on the tongue while supporting abortion went unanswered, but that really didn’t surprise me since we all know what the true answer to the question is.

Here is the “nub” of the question as I see it. The holiest and saintliest people I know cringe at the mention of the TLM, precisely because of the very vocal segment who so blatantly focus on all the externals: dress, headcovering, manner of reception, etc. Many of them grew up with the TLM pre-V2 but wouldn’t consider even attending one in the current environment. Of course they aren’t hearing from those who simply recognize the majesty of that form and who quietly go in, worship God with awe and pure devotion, and go on about the Lord’s work when they leave.

Correspondingly I’m sure that many in the “trraditionalist” community cringe at the thought of the OF because of abuses they have encountered, or heard about, or people who are clearly just there taking up space without having a clue what is really occurring before them. But they mostly aren’t hearing from their counterparts there who quietly go in, worhsip God with awe and pure devotion, and go on about the Lord’s work when they leave.

On the OF side people are identifying the traditionalist movement with the fringe who is all about externals. On the TLM side people are identifying the OF with the fringe who is mostly oblivious and attending out of cultural habit or obligation.

Back to the question of externals, I think we agree that it is not what we are to be doing, and I think that those holy people on both “sides” would agree with that. Jesus told us very clearly to not be seeking approval of men but only to seek to please God. On one side we have those that appear to the other side to be totally focused on seeking the approval of men. On the tradiitonalist side we have those who see the other side not caring about the approval of men or God. Yet we don’t hear anything for the most part from the holy few who are seeking to just please God without worrying about what man is saying. And it is those holy few that draw people to God by their example.

Both forms of the Mass are wonderful when properly celebrated. Either manner of receiving communion is a gift from God Himself. The “best” Mass is the one that calls to our unique nature in the way God calls us. Some like the simple, others the more ornate. Some respond to the TLM, others to the OF. There is plenty of room for both of us and however one actually* responds *I will rejoice over.

I’m truly not advocating laxity, nor dressing inappropriately. And I am certainly not defending the lukewarm in any way. Like how I receive communion, I will dress to not draw attention to myself in whatever parish I may be attending at, again to not draw anyone’s attention away from where there focus should be.

As Layman noted, if the attitude is one of laxity, laxity will prevail. The corrolary is that if there is a focus on the externals and pleasing men, that attitude will also prevail. Yet those holy few will go on about their business quietly, just seeking to find and please God.

Forming our Catholic identity is important, but it is only the beginning of the journey: Catholicism 101. The real journey is in building the relationship with the God who loves us infinitely without letting our focus be drawn to the petty. It’s much harder work and requires much greater surrender. But once one has fallen into the arms of that God, the approval of men really doesn’t matter much any more.

I truly admire the ardor of most of the traditionalists I have met, even if I may not share their preference. It would be nice if there could be a recognition that one is not inferior or inadequate just because they don’t share that preference in their worship. Fortunately though, even though I don’t expect it to happen, it isn’t really important to me any more.
Peace,
 
We’re not just individuals at Mass. We’re part of a group. At minimum we shouldn’t distract others. At maximum, we should inspire them to greater piety.

To return to the original topic:

Even before I came back to regular worship I knew one of the reasons CITH was forbidden was to stop Satanists palming the Host. I’m amazed it was re-introduced. Is it the case that bishops don’t think Satanism exists any more? Absolutely crazy to bring it back.
 
Maybe you know who Michael Davies is.🤷 He wrote a book called “The Tridentine Mass.” He was a convert who passed away not very long ago. In his book, he opens with a quote by John Henry Newman: “Nothing is so consoling, so piercing, so thrilling, so overcoming, as the Mass, said as it is among us. I could attend Mass forever, and not be tired. . .”(He’s referring to the Tridentine Mass).

The forward of the book is entitled, “The Mass That Will Not Die.” This was actually an article that appeared in “The Catholic Register” (Canada) on May 25, 1985. It was written by the editor, Larry Henderson (a convertt) and describes his participation for the first time in the traditional Mass of the Roman Rite. The rite of this Mass was described by Father Faber as “the most beautiful thing this side of heaven.”

After reading this book, one is more inclined to adhere to the rubrics of this “worthy” rite. A brief summary of Part I–Visible Sacrifice reminds us that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is “our most precious possession” and should be celebrated in a manner worthy of the “awe-inspiring Sacrifice.”:harp:
I have read a number of Mr. Davis’s works.

The practice of his faith will be much missed. I am always humbled by converts that are more informed and live better their faith, than do I and a great many other cradle Catholics.

May he rest in peace!
 
Rot. If disobedience were a genuine factor then why are artificial contraception and abortion not permitted? Remarriage upon divorce? Female ordination? For sure these all have been, or are currently, much more popular forms of disobedience than CITH ever was, and much more militantly advocated, no?
Dear friend in Christ,

FYI…
**
Removal of Communion rails, walk-around altars, Communion in the hand, female altar servers, Communion under both species, removal of tabernacle out of the Sanctuary, Lay Lectors, and NOW ORDINARY (still no indult on this) ministers of communion.**

NOT ONE OF THESE WAS APPROVED BY VATICAN II!

Second point:

All of the above that have received “Indults” have done so after the practice had already been forced as “mandates of Vatican II” and were firmly established practices led by numerous American Bishops in direct disobedience to Rome. I have been trying to find the article where I read this. Can you give me a source? Thanks.

This fact should hardy give the laity a “warm and fuzzy feeling” given the usurption of power and authority, and the example that has led to oh, so many other problems.

“If they can do it, why can’t I?”

Can anything good come out of such direct and deliberate disobedience? For sure nothing has so far:(😊

Love and prayers,
 
I have spent over an hour reading this thread. With that said, I have certainly not read each response and opinion. And I’m a bit confused considering, it’s gone OT.

I notice it began with RCIA Candidates asking questions. And I also noticed they haven’t returned (or at least not in the portions I’ve read through). 😊 These people are anxious and nervous about their first Holy Communion. I’m sure they want to to do their very best & the proper way. However, they only know what’s been taught to them in their RCIA class.

To those candidates: God Bless you & you’re in my prayers. I do apologize if there has been a lack of Christian charity to you. If you notice, I seldom post on the forum. I’m more of a reader.🙂

For myself: I have never received the Blessed Host in my hand. I always receive on the tongue and our parish does not use pattens. As I enter the church, I certainly genuflect before the Tabernacle. As I get into the Communion line, I fold my hands and pray while waiting in line. When it is my turn to receive, I again, genuflect before my Lord and receive his Body & Blood. I make the sign of the cross and quickly return to my pew and continue to pray and give thanks until the Eucharist has been completed. As I leave Mass, I again genuflect before the Tabernacle. I do this because …this is Jesus! And I’m almost at the point of asking… shouldn’t we be laying prostrate on the floor before our Lord? But I’m expecting to get flamed enough already.:sad_yes:

Lastly, I couldn’t tell you what people are dressed like or even who wasn’t at Mass at all. I’m there for worship, not to judge and critique fellow Parishioners. Of course, after the conclusion of Mass we have coffee & snacks in the kitchen. And that’s the appropriate time to talk and fellowship.

I don’t mean to offend anyone. I’m praying for each and everyone of you. I just finally had to add my 2¢ on this topic. ~PEACE~
 
We’re not just individuals at Mass. We’re part of a group. At minimum we shouldn’t distract others. At maximum, we should inspire them to greater piety.

To return to the original topic:

Even before I came back to regular worship I knew one of the reasons CITH was forbidden was to stop Satanists palming the Host. I’m amazed it was re-introduced. Is it the case that bishops don’t think Satanism exists any more? Absolutely crazy to bring it back.
So don’t you think one could “palm” the Host on one’s tongue, spit into one’s hand, put it one’s pocket or whatever?
 
So don’t you think one could “palm” the Host on one’s tongue, spit into one’s hand, put it one’s pocket or whatever?
Read up about the investigation done by Louis XIV of France into satanic practices, includng ‘black Masses’ with consecrated hosts - in his royal court. Apparently his mistress was one of the worst offenders.

All during the time when Communion on the tongue was the only way to receive. So communion on the tongue wouldn’t seem to be a deterrent for those who are determined to obtain consecrated Hosts for nefarious purposes. All it would need would be someone to nick the keys to the Tabernacle - or the Tabernacle itself (I know a few cases where this has happened or been attempted).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top