Communion in the Hand

[triumphguy]

It proves that communion in the hand is neither an innovation, nor an abuse, nor a recent development, nor did it originated in parishes.

Religious orders like the Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites and Benedictines are not segregated parts of the Church. It is they who inform the laity in the Church, guide the laity in the Church and enlighten the laity in the Church, not the other way around, nor are they off in a bubble on their own.

Art, music, architecture, monastic and aristotlean theology, liturgy, spirituality, meditation, lectio, prayer… The vast majority of what we have in the Church today comes from the orders. The vast majority of everything else are most likely adaptations of rabbinic and levitical Jewish practices from before 70AD.

-Tim-.

Good post Tim. I agree.

Not good because I agree, but Good, AND I agree

If the Church was a body of water it would be a huge ocean fed by many mighty rivers and touching many shores of civilizations both ancient and new.

Not some miserable little pond fed by a parched stream.

 

[Pork_Roll]

Can anyone honestly say that CITH was a good fruit? Did it originate from a pious devotion to the Eucharist or from a spirit of rebellion and experimentation? I think it was the latter.

 

[LightBound]

Can anyone honestly say that CITH was a good fruit? Did it originate from a pious devotion to the Eucharist or from a spirit of rebellion and experimentation? I think it was the latter.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=731923&page=4

Post 55

 

[Sirach2]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=731923&page=4

Post 55

You would be more helpful in posting the actual link to post #55, which is here.

I was going to send you a PM to show how to do this, but you do not have it enabled in your profile. You click the #55 in the actual post. When it appears on screen in a new single post, copy the address, then insert this link into your post, either separately, or use the “insert link” feature.

 

[LightBound]

You would be more helpful in posting the actual link to post #55, which is here.

I was going to send you a PM to show how to do this, but you do not have it enabled in your profile. You click the #55 in the actual post. When it appears on screen in a new single post, copy the address, then insert this link into your post, either separately, or use the “insert link” feature.

Thank you.

 

[Bill1940]

The discussion reminds me of the early Church’s discussion about circumcision. The converts who were of the sect of the Pharisees wanted to require circumcision. We speak of consecrated hands only permitted to touch the sacred host and we are reminded that the tongue probably sins more than do our hands. The Church determined that being uncircumcised of heart and soul was the true impediment to grace and the true sacrilege was to approach the altar in such a state.

 

[agnes_therese]

Can anyone honestly say that CITH was a good fruit? Did it originate from a pious devotion to the Eucharist or from a spirit of rebellion and experimentation? I think it was the latter.

So the Church approved “a spirit of rebellion and experimentation.” Interesting view you have of the Magisterium.

 

[Sirach2]

The discussion reminds me of the early Church’s discussion about circumcision. The converts who were of the sect of the Pharisees wanted to require circumcision. We speak of consecrated hands only permitted to touch the sacred host and we are reminded that the tongue probably sins more than do our hands. The Church determined that being uncircumcised of heart and soul was the true impediment to grace and the true sacrilege was to approach the altar in such a state.

[sign]Good post! Amen![/sign]

 

[Mike30]

It proves that communion in the hand is neither an innovation, nor an abuse, nor a recent development, nor did it originated in parishes.

Religious orders like the Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites and Benedictines are not segregated parts of the Church. It is they who inform the laity in the Church, guide the laity in the Church and enlighten the laity in the Church, not the other way around, nor are they off in a bubble on their own.

Art, music, architecture, monastic and aristotlean theology, liturgy, spirituality, meditation, lectio, prayer… The vast majority of what we have in the Church today comes from the orders. The vast majority of everything else are most likely adaptations of rabbinic and levitical Jewish practices from before 70AD.

-Tim-.

I never said that it was. I merely stated that members of Religious Orders are generally better educated in religious matters and customs, than are the majority of the laity. I would think that our collective experience here with Brother J.R. is perfect evidence of that. To introduce wholescale to the laity at large a particular custom that has been used solely by various religious orders, not all, but some, for hundreds or years, without proper education into what the practice is, why we are doing it now and the proper way to do it seems odd and ill thought out at best.

And I will reiterate, I have no problem with receiving in the hand or those that do, except when my right to receive on the tongue is infringed upon by well meaningPriests Deacons and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion who obviously feel that I need to be brought into the fold as it were of the enlightened who choose to receive in the hand and even on occasion to be refused Holy Communion on the tongue by the above…

Regardless as to what Rome has said on the matter, it is still not at all uncommon for that to happen.

 

[Melchior_1]

Can anyone honestly say that CITH was a good fruit? Did it originate from a pious devotion to the Eucharist or from a spirit of rebellion and experimentation? I think it was the latter.

I dunno, ask St. Francis.

 

[Sirach2]

 

[ProVobis]

I dunno, ask St. Francis.

St. Francis should be remembered for more than CITH, I would think.

 

[LilyM]

I dunno, ask St. Francis.

Or better yet St Cyril of Jerusalem

 

[SuperTrad]

I’m not sure what that Moderator’s post has to do with what I posted.

I remain perplexed as to how God is better worshipped by letting lay-people handle Christ The King, especially in a time of rebellion against all authority.

Catholics need to realise that all the changes since the 70’s are not new. The Protestants have already tried them.

One hears about the older form. You go to one. You notice it’s quiet. The priest, dressed in fine vestments processes in with his MC and servers, also vested. The choir starts singing ‘Asperges Me’ … People kneel to receive the King, in a neat row.

It’s all there, ready to be used, when the children get tired of moving around the furniture.

 

[TimothyH]

Can anyone honestly say that CITH was a good fruit? Did it originate from a pious devotion to the Eucharist or from a spirit of rebellion and experimentation? I think it was the latter.

What the Holy See itself allowed cannot be attributed to rebellion.

Reception of the Eucharist bears good fruit in millions of souls throughout the world every day.

-Tim-

 

[SuperTrad]

What the Holy See itself allowed cannot be attributed to rebellion.

Reception of the Eucharist bears good fruit in millions of souls throughout the world every day.

-Tim-

I would say that what the Holy See allowed can be attributed to fear of rebellion. Those reading this who lived through those times can recount how this indult came about.

Your second point has no bearing on the discussion of CITH; we’re talking about the method of reception, not reception itself.

(Lat. Indultum, found in Roman Law, bk. I, Cod. Theodos. 3, 10. and 4, 15: V, 15, 2; concession, privilege). Indults are general faculties (q.v.), granted by the Holy See to bishops and others, of doing something not permitted by the common law. General needs, peculiar local conditions, the impossibility of applying to Rome in individual cases, etc., are sufficient reasons for making these concessions.

catholicity.com/encyclopedia/i/indult,pontifical.html

 

[Melchior_1]

I’m not sure what that Moderator’s post has to do with what I posted.

I remain perplexed as to how God is better worshipped by letting lay-people handle Christ The King, especially in a time of rebellion against all authority.

Catholics need to realise that all the changes since the 70’s are not new. The Protestants have already tried them.

And where did the Protestants get them? Several Protestant practices were cribbed from Catholics.

• Their “Bible services” resemble Lectio Divina (some religious houses do Lectio with hymns).
• Anglicans & Lutherans obviously have taken a few things from us. They even share the same Baptism.
• Luther was an Augustinian monk, so he took several elements of their life with him.
• We could all follow their lead for studying Scripture and tithing.

One hears about the older form. You go to one. You notice it’s quiet. The priest, dressed in fine vestments processes in with his MC and servers, also vested. The choir starts singing ‘Asperges Me’ … People kneel to receive the King, in a neat row.

Sorry mate, but this doesn’t exactly do it for me, nor for others. Simple is as simple does, I guess. It has nothing to do with rebellion or immaturity, but instead has to do with austerity and differences in practicing and living the spirituality of our Catholic faith.

It’s all there, ready to be used, when the children get tired of moving around the furniture.

So those who do not enjoy the EF, or engage in valid practices which you do not agree with, are children?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Would someone clue me into how this now :slapfight: of a discussion is supposed to help the OP?

 

[TimothyH]

I’m not sure what that Moderator’s post has to do with what I posted.

I remain perplexed as to how God is better worshipped by letting lay-people handle Christ The King, especially in a time of rebellion against all authority.

Catholics need to realise that all the changes since the 70’s are not new. The Protestants have already tried them.

One hears about the older form. You go to one. You notice it’s quiet. The priest, dressed in fine vestments processes in with his MC and servers, also vested. The choir starts singing ‘Asperges Me’ … People kneel to receive the King, in a neat row.

It’s all there, ready to be used, when the children get tired of moving around the furniture.

All of that is your spirituality, not mine.

I prefer an old abbey Church with hard benches made from the pieces of wood left over from the old barn, or benches made of rough cold stone to remind me of the stone that will stand above my grave some day. I prefer that the only artwork visible be a cross without corpus to remind me that that it is my body which should be nailed to it. I prefer to see my breath in the Church on February morning. No distractions.

That’s my spirituality.

Should I look at the fresco’s at a parish church and make comments about the children doodling on the cieling? Should I look at the statues and make comments about the children playing with Play-Dough? Of course I shouldn’t, because it would be highly offensive. Disgusting.

-Tim-

 

[SuperTrad]

Found this when researching:
communion-in-the-hand.org/quotations.html

If you believe that your god is in this thing then collectively getting up off your knees and
having it being passed into your hands by another layman makes no sense at all, unless your beliefs have changed.

If I wasn’t Catholic it’d be fascinating to watch from a socio-psychological perspective; “Belief And Practice in Roman Catholicism, 1812 - 2012”