Communion is just a symbol!

[JonNC]

Holy Ghost has a leader on the ground, appointed by Jesus. But some troops have formed their own army

Luke 9:50. 49John answered, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us.” 50But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you.”

Jon

 

[Michael96]

Of course i do not believe this, but I want to put on my fundamentalist protestant hat and play objector for this thread.

My family and friends think it is just symbolic because…He who is Truth said…do this in REMEMBRANCE of me. So the idea is that it’s just like a memorial of sorts with no spiritual significance.

In the book of John, Jesus spoke symbolically and refers to Himself as a gate in John 10:9, but Catholics don’t take him literally there, so why do you take him literal 4 chapters earlier when he said " For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." John 6:55

Clearly, Jesus is speaking symbolically there as well. Once again the Catholic Church got it wrong!!!

Hi Lenten Ashes

I wonder if there is a middle way, that what starts as a symbol leads us to a knowledge of a deeper reality of the presence of Christ in the Eucharist (which then leads us on to an understanding of the presence of Christ everywhere, perhaps). I find much symbolism in the Eucharist, but also a deep reality of the presence of Christ and and through the sacrament.

Just a thought.

God bless +

Michael

 

[benhur]

Holy Ghost has a leader on the ground, appointed by Jesus. But some troops have formed their own army

Jesus certainly appointed the apostles. Beyond them, appointments are made by men, as they yield to the Holy Ghost’s guidance.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Luke 9:50. 49John answered, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us.” 50But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you.”

Jon

.
Just means we should encourage everyone to be Christian.

Doesn’t negate the promise made to Peter in Matthew 16:16-19 or the need for a authoritative Church Matt 18:17

Pax

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Jesus certainly appointed the apostles. Beyond them, appointments are made by men, as they yield to the Holy Ghost’s guidance.

Gave keys to Peter, singular.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Hi Lenten Ashes

I wonder if there is a middle way, that what starts as a symbol leads us to a knowledge of a deeper reality of the presence of Christ in the Eucharist (which then leads us on to an understanding of the presence of Christ everywhere, perhaps). I find much symbolism in the Eucharist, but also a deep reality of the presence of Christ and and through the sacrament.

Just a thought.

God bless +

Michael

Hi Michael.

Della responded earlier that it is both symbolic and the real body and Blood.

Since it’s still under the appearance of bread and wine, it is symbolic to the human eye.

Makes sense.

Pax

 

[Wannano]

Hi Michael.

Della responded earlier that it is both symbolic and the real body and Blood.

Since it’s still under the appearance of bread and wine, it is symbolic to the human eye.

Makes sense.

Pax

I don’t think most non-Sacremental churches would disagree with taking the word “just” out of the op.

 

[benhur]

Gave keys to Peter, singular.

Hi La,

Again, beyond that ? Is Jesus giving the keys directly to popes like He did with Peter, or through fallible men needing the guidance of the Holy Sprit ?

Blessings

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Hi La,

Again, beyond that ? Is Jesus giving the keys directly to popes like He did with Peter, or through fallible men needing the guidance of the Holy Sprit ?

Blessings

Hi Ben

It’s the office that matters, not the person.

 

[clem456]

Hi La,

Again, beyond that ? Is Jesus giving the keys directly to popes like He did with Peter, or through fallible men needing the guidance of the Holy Sprit ?

Blessings

A false dichotomy. Christ and the Holy Spirit are one, right? Fundamental Christian belief.

Humans are fallible. The Holy Spirit is not. Fallible human beings accomplish God’s will as he wills it.

God is living. Christ has risen. His Spirit initiates the Church and lives with it, guiding it. So while Jesus is not present in body to give his “Ruach” to each Pope, the Holy Spirit is his living “Ruach”, transmitting through and animating His Body .

The gift of authority (or unique leadership if you prefer) is a living gift.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Gave keys to Peter, singular.

Or otoh, gave the power to bind and loosen, the function of keys, to many, plural.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Or otoh, gave the power to bind and loosen, the function of keys, to many, plural.

One of them, specifically, was told to “feed my sheep” John 21

 

[Sy_Noe]

One of them, specifically, was told to “feed my sheep” John 21

There are many shepherds tending to their flocks. Even Pope Francis has said for priests to be shepherds living with the smell of the sheep.

thecatholictelegraph.com/pope-francis-priests-should-be-shepherds-living-with-the-smell-of-the-sheep/13439

The bottom line is when it comes to matters of God and faith and belief, no one truly knows anything for sure and can only believe or think they know… with some. Walking by faith, not by sight, a peaceful journey to all. Brightest blessings!

 

[clem456]

There are many shepherds tending to their flocks. Even Pope Francis has said for priests to be shepherds living with the smell of the sheep.

Do you accept that human beings are unique?
How about diverse? Unique persons are evidence of diversity. No uniqueness, no diversity.

How about gifts? Assuming you believe God gives us graces, or gifts, do you think God gives every person the same gifts? The same vocation?

So while the word “shepherd” can be applied to many people, each of those shepherds are unique in the eyes of God, and are given unique charisms, graces, vocations. And in their uniqueness they can still be called “shepherd”.

The fact that we all have a commonality does not mean we are not unique.

thecatholictelegraph.com/pope-francis-priests-should-be-shepherds-living-with-the-smell-of-the-sheep/13439

The bottom line is when it comes to matters of God and faith and belief, no one truly knows anything for sure

Are you sure about that?..

and can only believe or think they know… with some. Walking by faith, not by sight, a peaceful journey to all. Brightest blessings!

While God is mysterious and not fully comprehensible, faith calls for a response. A commitment. Not a throwing up of the hands.

God calls us to come to know him. God reveals himself as “logos”, or reason-able for us.

 

[JonNC]

One of them, specifically, was told to “feed my sheep” John 21

Indeed, though that is not the keys.

Jon

 

[benhur]

Hi Ben

It’s the office that matters, not the person.

Hi La,

Again, not either or so much. The person in the office totally matters also. History bears this out.

Tell me, would you prefer that Jesus personally groomed and picked our president, and is what we are doing now just as unconditionally infallible because of His promised guidance/hand in the matter ?

Blessings

 

[clem456]

Hi La,

Again, not either or so much. The person in the office totally matters also. History bears this out.

The office is filled by a person. It is personal, but not an individualistic way, or exclusively personal way.

 

[benhur]

A false dichotomy. Christ and the Holy Spirit are one, right? Fundamental Christian belief.

And some have therefore said the perfect Vicar, the Holy Ghost. Why need we a “king” ? (Didn’t another Covenant try this?)

Then why does the CC insist those with out a pope are “unshepherded”, “orphaned”, as if Invisible church" shepherding is a fallacy. Is not Jesus with every congregation of believers ? Does not every congregation having “living” authorities/giftings.

We quibble over the reality of one office of many. We quibble over the brotherhood of believers through faith in Christ and that of one distinct , alledged office.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

The office is filled by a person. It is personal, but not an individualistic way, or exclusively personal way.

Hi clem,

Correct. The office holder is not exempt from the condition of being in the Spirit and not exclusively in a way that seems right to himself.

Blessings

 

[clem456]

Hi clem,

Correct. The office holder is not exempt from the condition of being in the Spirit and not exclusively in a way that seems right to himself.

Blessings

Right. Never exclusive of the Holy Spirit. That would be an arbitrary exercise of “what seems right”. Arbitrary means dependent on one’s own will and pleasure.

When a person is in the confidence of the Holy Spirit (“con-fide” ) the exercise of the office will seem right, and it is expressed in confidence and authority through the power of the Holy Spirit. The Pope is unique in his giftedness, just as you and I are uniquely gifted in our unique ways.