Communion of Children

[QuoVado]

Perhaps this has already been asked and answered, but I am an Orthodox contemplating the move to Catholicism and I need to know, do Eastern Catholics commune children from the time of Baptism, as is our practice in the Orthodox Church? If I make the move I do not want to bring confusion to my children, who would not be of age to commune in the Latin Rite.

Thanks,

QuoVado

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Perhaps this has already been asked and answered, but I am an Orthodox contemplating the move to Catholicism and I need to know, do Eastern Catholics commune children from the time of Baptism, as is our practice in the Orthodox Church? If I make the move I do not want to bring confusion to my children, who would not be of age to commune in the Latin Rite.

Thanks,

QuoVado

they should commune children. That is their tradition. that being said, there are several Churches that delay it…the Maronites come to mind.

are you interested in staying Eastern or do you want to switch to the Latin Church? If you stay Eastern but have no Eastern Church to go to, approach the priest at the Latin church…I’m almost positive that they can’t deny your children communion.

 

[QuoVado]

they should commune children. That is their tradition. that being said, there are several Churches that delay it…the Maronites come to mind.

are you interested in staying Eastern or do you want to switch to the Latin Church? If you stay Eastern but have no Eastern Church to go to, approach the priest at the Latin church…I’m almost positive that they can’t deny your children communion.

I personally do not care which rite I am in, I just want to have a clearer picture of who’s in charge further on up the chain of command. My own city is a major center of Eastern Catholicism (mostly Slavic) as well as the Latin Rite. Within 10 minutes of my house there are 5 Latin Rite parishes, 4 Byzantine and 1 Maronite. I’m blessed! If I had my way I would just go Latin because the cultural specificity of so much of Eastern Christianity (especially around here) has really got me worn down, but my kids are of a very impressionable age, and I really have to think of what will make the transition simple for them liturgically and sacramentally.

 

[jmcrae]

I personally do not care which rite I am in, I just want to have a clearer picture of who’s in charge further on up the chain of command. My own city is a major center of Eastern Catholicism (mostly Slavic) as well as the Latin Rite. Within 10 minutes of my house there are 5 Latin Rite parishes, 4 Byzantine and 1 Maronite. I’m blessed! If I had my way I would just go Latin because the cultural specificity of so much of Eastern Christianity (especially around here) has really got me worn down, but my kids are of a very impressionable age, and I really have to think of what will make the transition simple for them liturgically and sacramentally.

If they have received their First Holy Communion, the Latin Rite priest will accommodate them - just give him a “heads-up” to let him know ahead of time, so that he isn’t surprised during the distribution of Holy Communion. We had that situation with a little boy at our parish several years ago - he was Eastern Rite, but he was still being carried by his parents. They used to bring him to the weekday Mass. The priest was more than happy to accommodate the family.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

I personally do not care which rite I am in, I just want to have a clearer picture of who’s in charge further on up the chain of command. My own city is a major center of Eastern Catholicism (mostly Slavic) as well as the Latin Rite. Within 10 minutes of my house there are 5 Latin Rite parishes, 4 Byzantine and 1 Maronite. I’m blessed! If I had my way I would just go Latin because the cultural specificity of so much of Eastern Christianity (especially around here) has really got me worn down, but my kids are of a very impressionable age, and I really have to think of what will make the transition simple for them liturgically and sacramentally.

what Orthodox Church do you belong to? If you do become Catholic, you will technically switch to the equivalent Eastern Catholic church…you can then request a canonical transfer to the Latin Church. How old are your children?

I am jealous of you for having so many Eastern Catholic parishes to choose from especially a Maronite church!

 

[QuoVado]

If they have received their First Holy Communion, the Latin Rite priest will accommodate them - just give him a “heads-up” to let him know ahead of time, so that he isn’t surprised during the distribution of Holy Communion. We had that situation with a little boy at our parish several years ago - he was Eastern Rite, but he was still being carried by his parents. They used to bring him to the weekday Mass. The priest was more than happy to accommodate the family.

That actually makes very good sense. On a related question, does the Eastern Rite still formally catechize and confirm, even though they might commune them young? Formal catechesis is not really done in the Orthodox Church.

 

[jmcrae]

That actually makes very good sense. On a related question, does the Eastern Rite still formally catechize and confirm, even though they might commune them young? Formal catechesis is not really done in the Orthodox Church.

I have absolutely no idea - sorry!

 

[QuoVado]

what Orthodox Church do you belong to? If you do become Catholic, you will technically switch to the equivalent Eastern Catholic church…you can then request a canonical transfer to the Latin Church. How old are your children?

I am jealous of you for having so many Eastern Catholic parishes to choose from especially a Maronite church!

Ah, well, I live in Pittsburgh, PA, great center of all things Catholic and Orthodox. If you’re looking for it we’ve got it. Byzantine Rite, Latin Rite (including a huge Latin Mass Community), Polish National Church. Oh, yes, we’ve got lot’s of Arab Christians here, too – Maronites, Antiochian Orthodox, Coptic, etc. On last count I think I tallied up six different Orthodox Episcopal Sees here , both old and new calendar. In the summertime it’s “Battle of the Ethnic Food Festivals”, the city literally reeks of cabbage, tzouvlaki and kibbeh, and we keep the neighborhoods up all night with polkas and Greek dancing. LOL It’s a total zoo! Fun, though.

I’m in the Orthodox Church in America (OCA). I would assume I would switch to the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Archeparchy. My kids are a very precocious 2 and 5.

 

[Aramis]

Perhaps this has already been asked and answered, but I am an Orthodox contemplating the move to Catholicism and I need to know, do Eastern Catholics commune children from the time of Baptism, as is our practice in the Orthodox Church? If I make the move I do not want to bring confusion to my children, who would not be of age to commune in the Latin Rite.

Thanks,

QuoVado

If you and your children convert, they are elligible to continue to receive, even if the particular church which you participate in does not normally do so. (Be warned: Some Roman priests are woefully ignorant of the Eastern churches.)

If you are canonical orthodox, you and your children should be received by mere profession of faith, and reception of communion. (Per the CCEO.)

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Ah, well, I live in Pittsburgh, PA, great center of all things Catholic and Orthodox. If you’re looking for it we’ve got it. Byzantine Rite, Latin Rite (including a huge Latin Mass Community), Polish National Church. Oh, yes, we’ve got lot’s of Arab Christians here, too – Maronites, Antiochian Orthodox, Coptic, etc. On last count I think I tallied up six different Orthodox Episcopal Sees here , both old and new calendar. In the summertime it’s “Battle of the Ethnic Food Festivals”, the city literally reeks of cabbage, tzouvlaki and kibbeh, and we keep the neighborhoods up all night with polkas and Greek dancing. LOL It’s a total zoo! Fun, though.

I’m in the Orthodox Church in America (OCA). I would assume I would switch to the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Archeparchy. My kids are a very precocious 2 and 5.

yes, I’ve heard Pittsburgh is a lovely “Eastern” city. I would love to go and check it out sometime!

slightly off topic but, why are you contemplating Catholicism? no need to answer if you don’t want to, i understand

 

[bpbasilphx]

That actually makes very good sense. On a related question, does the Eastern Rite still formally catechize and confirm, even though they might commune them young? Formal catechesis is not really done in the Orthodox Church.

If your children were baptized in the Orthodox Church, they were confirmed at the same time.

Therefore, confirmation would NOT be repeated by ANY Catholic Church.

 

[graceandglory]

. I’m blessed! If I had my way I would just go Latin because the cultural specificity of so much of Eastern Christianity (especially around here) has really got me worn down, .

That did it for me too.

 

[Ghosty]

In answer to the catechesis question, I can only speak for the Melkite Church (counterpart to the Antiochian Orthodox). In most cases I’ve seen the catechesis does continue until about the age that most Latins have “First Communion”. At that time a “Solemn Communion” is often celebrated, around the time that the kids will make their first Confessions to the Priest.

This is a carry-over from the Latin Church tradition of First Communion, but in this case I do think it’s beneficial because Catechesis continues. The children still Commune from the time they are Baptized, they just have an “extra special” event at the time of their first Confession.

Peace and God bless!

 

[QuoVado]

yes, I’ve heard Pittsburgh is a lovely “Eastern” city. I would love to go and check it out sometime!

slightly off topic but, why are you contemplating Catholicism? no need to answer if you don’t want to, i understand

Well, many of the reasons are personal, but I can tell you that Orthodoxy in America is absolute chaos. It seems to work in its traditional cultural contexts in the mother countries (I have seen it first hand in Russia), but it is woefully unfit for a modern pluralist culture like this one. It seems to be content with fighting and re-fighting the theological battles of the 4th-8th centuries, without taking a clear and vocal moral stand in this one. Which is why you almost never see us attacked by the secular media in the manner that they love to skewer Catholicism.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Well, many of the reasons are personal, but I can tell you that Orthodoxy in America is absolute chaos. It seems to work in its traditional cultural contexts in the mother countries (I have seen it first hand in Russia), but it is woefully unfit for a modern pluralist culture like this one. It seems to be content with fighting and re-fighting the theological battles of the 4th-8th centuries, without taking a clear and vocal moral stand in this one. Which is why you almost never see us attacked by the secular media in the manner that they love to skewer Catholicism.

interesting…yes I’ve noticed that the Orthodox often stay out of the media. And the ethnicity is certainly true…in my city there are 3 Orthodox Churches and I think only 1 has a mixed culture similar to any Latin/Roman Catholic Church, the other 2 are still rather ethnic. Not that it’s necessarily a bad thing, but it does seem to put people off who aren’t of that culture. i would love to visit the Greek Orthodox church here in town but I would feel SOOOO out of place, more so b/c I’m not Greek than b/c I’m not Orthodox.

Do you think that the ethnicity that is “plaguing” the Orthodox Church in America is also doing harm to the Eastern Catholic Churches? I know I desire very much to join the Ukrainian Catholic church (God willing if our mission succeeds!) but have NO Ukrainian blood in me at all

 

[Patchunky]

That actually makes very good sense. On a related question, does the Eastern Rite still formally catechize and confirm, even though they might commune them young? Formal catechesis is not really done in the Orthodox Church.

In the Byzantine Ruthenian church, catechesis goes up until high school, although, sadly, not many of the kids participate at this level. I think much depends on the parish family and how much emphasis they place on the program and what activities they do to keep the kids interested.

 

[QuoVado]

interesting…yes I’ve noticed that the Orthodox often stay out of the media. And the ethnicity is certainly true…in my city there are 3 Orthodox Churches and I think only 1 has a mixed culture similar to any Latin/Roman Catholic Church, the other 2 are still rather ethnic. Not that it’s necessarily a bad thing, but it does seem to put people off who aren’t of that culture. i would love to visit the Greek Orthodox church here in town but I would feel SOOOO out of place, more so b/c I’m not Greek than b/c I’m not Orthodox.

Do you think that the ethnicity that is “plaguing” the Orthodox Church in America is also doing harm to the Eastern Catholic Churches? I know I desire very much to join the Ukrainian Catholic church (God willing if our mission succeeds!) but have NO Ukrainian blood in me at all

Well, knowing the Ukrainians very well (my own mother’s family comes from just north of there, from Belarus), they are fiercely proud of their heritage, and there’s nothing wrong with that, if it doesn’t get in the way of their faith.

The ethnicity issue is different in Orthodoxy than it is in Catholicism, and the reason is ecclesiological. It is certainly true that Eastern Catholicism can be very ethnic. For that matter Latin Rite can have a heavily ethnic flavor (Irish, Italian, Polish, Latino, etc.). The difference, imo, is that Catholics are Catholic first, and they share “communio in sacris”, so that whatever multiplicity of surface differences there may be, Eastern or Western, Byzantine Liturgy, Latin Mass or Novus Ordo, the faithful are united by the Eucharist and and the pastoral oversight of the Holy See on moral and dogmatic issues. The Catholic Church may be plagued with problems of it’s own, but it seems to have captured universality more successfully.

The problem with Orthodoxy is that, historically speaking, each jurisdiction is tied to the Mother Church of the respective Mother Country. And, also historically speaking, all of those mother countries happen to be “eastern”. So an organic, historical “western” expression of Orthodoxy cannot and does not exist. There is a floundering Western Rite that is a 20th century reconstruction of pre-schism proto-Catholicism, but it’s small, and it’s regarded with scorn and suspicion. Generally, “western” in Orthodoxy means one thing, “heretical”. That means, practically speaking, that you can’t be western and be Orthodox. You have to learn to be Greek or Russian, etc. before you can practice the faith. And, more importantly, you have no idea who’s in charge of what, where the Church stands on social or moral issues, etc., and if (God forbid) there should be pastoral misconduct of any sort (financial, sexual, etc.), there is no clear line of accountability and no “processibus” to handle the problem.

This is what makes Orthodoxy’s ethnicity problem unique, imo.

 

[babochka]

That was a beautiful reply, and sums up so much of what makes me happy to be Catholic.

As to your question of formal Catechesis, I think that it is considered a given that catechesis will continue through high school. I don’t know how well that actually works out, particularly in smaller parishes. Our parish, until very recently, didn’t have enough children for a formal catechesis program. Now, we’re teeming with little ones. We have 17 children in the parish (its a very small parish), but they are all under 7 years old. We’ll hopefully start something for the older ones soon. (As it is, they all get together on their own and hold their own “school” after liturgy.)

Elizabeth

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Well, knowing the Ukrainians very well (my own mother’s family comes from just north of there, from Belarus), they are fiercely proud of their heritage, and there’s nothing wrong with that, if it doesn’t get in the way of their faith.

The ethnicity issue is different in Orthodoxy than it is in Catholicism, and the reason is ecclesiological. It is certainly true that Eastern Catholicism can be very ethnic. For that matter Latin Rite can have a heavily ethnic flavor (Irish, Italian, Polish, Latino, etc.). The difference, imo, is that Catholics are Catholic first, and they share “communio in sacris”, so that whatever multiplicity of surface differences there may be, Eastern or Western, Byzantine Liturgy, Latin Mass or Novus Ordo, the faithful are united by the Eucharist and and the pastoral oversight of the Holy See on moral and dogmatic issues. The Catholic Church may be plagued with problems of it’s own, but it seems to have captured universality more successfully.

The problem with Orthodoxy is that, historically speaking, each jurisdiction is tied to the Mother Church of the respective Mother Country. And, also historically speaking, all of those mother countries happen to be “eastern”. So an organic, historical “western” expression of Orthodoxy cannot and does not exist. There is a floundering Western Rite that is a 20th century reconstruction of pre-schism proto-Catholicism, but it’s small, and it’s regarded with scorn and suspicion. Generally, “western” in Orthodoxy means one thing, “heretical”. That means, practically speaking, that you can’t be western and be Orthodox. You have to learn to be Greek or Russian, etc. before you can practice the faith. And, more importantly, you have no idea who’s in charge of what, where the Church stands on social or moral issues, etc., and if (God forbid) there should be pastoral misconduct of any sort (financial, sexual, etc.), there is no clear line of accountability and no “processibus” to handle the problem.

This is what makes Orthodoxy’s ethnicity problem unique, imo.

i agree with babochka, that is beautifully put!

I love being Catholic b/c of all the diversity in it but also for the unity it brings…I love the East and the West and all the things that go with them.

I wish you luck on your journey if you decided to become Catholic. My prayers are with you

 

[Volodymyr]

Generally, “western” in Orthodoxy means one thing, “heretical”. That means, practically speaking, that you can’t be western and be Orthodox. You have to learn to be Greek or Russian, etc. before you can practice the faith. And, more importantly, you have no idea who’s in charge of what, where the Church stands on social or moral issues, etc., and if (God forbid) there should be pastoral misconduct of any sort (financial, sexual, etc.), there is no clear line of accountability and no “processibus” to handle the prob

That was a beautiful reply, and sums up so much of what makes me happy to be Catholic.

Dear Ms Butterfly,

If this is beautiful reply it is also somewhat sad and biased. Let me tell you how, by changing positions:

Generally speaking for Catholic “Eastern” and "Orthodox"meaning only two things backwards and heretical. Moreover, Catolics speak Polish (or else Italian, French) and Polish people always hate Russians and mock Ukrainians. I would have to speak their language to be of their faith (oddly, Ms Butterfly I can also speak Polish, English, French and German but will not join their faith). Therefore, one cannot be Russian or Ukrainian and be Catolic.

Only 1 person, the bishop of Rome is in charge of everything. If there is sexual misconduct by homosexual priests in Catolic church it is ignored unless Pope finally comes out against it. Laity in Catolic church cannot take moral or social actions without consulting to and approval of such Bishop.

I hope you see the bias of this poor statement, now - if I can learn your language - you could learn Ukrainian and Russian or Greek. Yes, most books on Orthodoxy are in those languages, because that is where most Orthodox live. But one can practice Orthodox faith in Francia, Brazilia, Japon, Indonesia, anywhere. First step is only to wake up and begin to pray Morning Rule.