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O.S.Luke
Guest
They were probably afraid they might ‘catch something’, too.
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jmcrae
Guest
In any case, it’s clear that they now no longer have any connection to the historical Church that was founded by Jesus Christ, and that the break was quite deliberate.They were probably afraid they might ‘catch something’, too.
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O.S.Luke
Guest
About as clear as mud, actually. But if you say so, and if it makes you feel better.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Well if I dont have the fullness of God I guess its too bad. I guess the pope never considered that some of us didnt even have God. Then, when we finally do well now, its God but only God lite. Its not good enough God, like the God over there.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Getting back to the topic of the thread. Heres a communion I could believe in, at least the music speaks to my soul as it has for years. Wish I lived closer!
news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=27816
news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=27816
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Peregrino
Guest
How can we tell that something is more real than another thing, i.e. on what basis do we assess and evaluate the differing degrees of reality that you are suggesting?
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freudmacher
Guest
I completely agree with wath jmcre stated john
"Protestants put themselves out in the cold, nearly 500 years ago - it was they who rejected the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and they who deliberately got rid of the validly ordained priesthood in their churches.
The door is still open, though, and the light is still on after all these years - come home!! "
and your statement about the pope and his outlook on protestantism is a bit off the wall
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ComradeAndrei
Guest
“Real” is used in a more nuanced sense than you seem to be seeing it as. The Real Presence of the Eucharist is the same Christ who was born of the Virigin Mary and who is the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity. The “real presence” of Christ amongst us is a spiritual presense-He’s there but not in the same way that He’s there in the tabernacle of a Catholic Church.
The Eucharist is Christ-the consecrated Host is God to put it very bluntly. Will you say that three Christians praying the Our Father are God?
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StacieAdy
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
I was merely reiterating the other Faiths which share the common doctrine on the Eucharist.
He would, if you would retain the proper belief and form of the Blessed Sacrament.
I respect your belief, or rather, disbelief in our doctrine of the Eucharist…
You are free to believe as you wish and hopefully some day you will come to the fullness of Truth. God bless!
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Peregrino
Guest
Real is real, or it is not. It seems that you are not disputing the reality of Jesus’ presence (per Matthew 18:20), but only saying that it is not “physical”, discriminating between spiritual and physical. Are three Christians who pray together God? This is an interesting question. Given Matthew 18:5 (he who receives one such child in my name receives me), is the receiving person therefore receiving God in the flesh of the child?
To our ears, “Three Christians who pray together are God” sounds odd, about as odd as “the bread is God”. Is the physical presence to be valued over the spiritual presence? Is not the Holy Spirit equivalent with the other two persons of the Trinity or are we to value the 2nd person of the Trinity over the 1st and 3rd persons because of Jesus’ physical presence in the Eucharist?
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hamburglar
Guest
I thought I saw somewhere that Lutherans believe that the Eucharist is the real body of Christ. Is this what they (the Lutherans) believe?
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Grace_Seeker
Guest
Or if I might put the question slightly differently:
Since when did spiritual things become somehow less real just becauce they are spiritual rather than physical?
Will not the spiritual bodies we are raised with in 1 Corinthians 15 be in fact real bodies? Do you suppose that the altar in heaven where the sacfrice is placed before God is a physical altar made of wood or stone or any other physical material, or is it something other than material but nonetheless real just the same?
Surely a spiritual presence is a real presence or we might have to question the reality of all things spiritual. Dare I say it, even of him who is himself Spirit.
Oh, and yes, Lutherans most certainly believe in the “real Presence.”
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jmcrae
Guest
No. God comes with the child, but the child does not become God. He remains himself.
Yes, but for Catholics, the bread really is God - we kneel down and worship it, and we carry it in processions, and all who watch the procession go by fall down on their knees and worship what once was bread, but now is God. The bread doesn’t merely represent God - it has become God.
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Peregrino
Guest
I agree, however the original greek verb used dechomai, can mean to “literally receive” Christ. Your interpretation is theologically consistent within your framework, but the same phrase could also be taken differently and consistently in another framework, perhaps within a panentheistic interpretation of parts of the gospel.
Graceseeker has taken my thought to its logical conclusion. If we value the physical at the expense of the spiritual, what cost does this incur for us theologically or even morally?
Just think what the world would be like if we reverenced each other, flesh and blood humans (in which Jesus’ indwells spiritually) as much as we Catholics reverence a flat piece of bread (because it is God). If we were willing to exalt and honor the least among us, or even maybe those who are the most different (theologically, racially etc.) like we do the Eucharist in procession because of the indwelling presence of Christ in all of us. Think about rule 53 of the Rule of St. Benedict which states “At the arrival or departure of all guests, let Christ - who indeed is received in their persons - be adored in them, by bowing the head or even prostrating on the ground.”
Is the physical superior to the spiritual? What about those fortunate enough to be in heaven? To demean another Eucharist on grounds that it is not “the real presence” yet to acknowledge at least the spiritual presence of Christ in that Eucharist/congregation seems to be a somewhat questionable mindset.
Are the 1st and 3rd persons of the Trinity less real/important than the 2nd because they are insubtantial?
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Doxiemom
Guest
first let me apologize that I could not read all of the 9 pages of posts as my eyes began to glaze over and I do so much want to be part of this discussion
We, as catholics, must realize that many of our non-catholic christian brethen have an adversion even to the word of sacrament, and to the word sacrifice, . For some our Eucharist is called, scornfully, Jesus cookies. It is called idol worship. It is called worse. For these Christians, nothing Catholic is valid.
As a lay person this tells me that not all of these Christian communities treat(holy) communion as truely a holy event, even when it is done in Christ Jesus’ memory. It is just a part of the agend of the Sunday’s schedule.
But, as a catholic, I must look beyond all of our Christian brethern’s blindness- and treat their rememberence of the last Supper with dignity. While it may not have been performed under that priestly authority, the real test is what would we do if we had it handed to us?
No, it is not His Body and His Blood. Butit may very well be surrounded by Him, for these people were gathered in His Name and called upon Him.
When Jesus said, “Do onto others as you would have them do unto you” it was not a suggestion. To do less than this, is sin.
We, as catholics, must realize that many of our non-catholic christian brethen have an adversion even to the word of sacrament, and to the word sacrifice, . For some our Eucharist is called, scornfully, Jesus cookies. It is called idol worship. It is called worse. For these Christians, nothing Catholic is valid.
As a lay person this tells me that not all of these Christian communities treat(holy) communion as truely a holy event, even when it is done in Christ Jesus’ memory. It is just a part of the agend of the Sunday’s schedule.
But, as a catholic, I must look beyond all of our Christian brethern’s blindness- and treat their rememberence of the last Supper with dignity. While it may not have been performed under that priestly authority, the real test is what would we do if we had it handed to us?
No, it is not His Body and His Blood. Butit may very well be surrounded by Him, for these people were gathered in His Name and called upon Him.
When Jesus said, “Do onto others as you would have them do unto you” it was not a suggestion. To do less than this, is sin.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Just had a thought, perhaps this is part of what it means to Love your neighbour. Seeing Christ in each other.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Doxiemom
Actually part of the last bit of discussion is about how it is treated with dignity. That “protestants” can and do respect this entirely. Read OSLuke and Peregrino and I hope you will see it.
Please dont fall into the stereotype of what is thought, its not always as you say, sometimes but not always.
Actually part of the last bit of discussion is about how it is treated with dignity. That “protestants” can and do respect this entirely. Read OSLuke and Peregrino and I hope you will see it.
Please dont fall into the stereotype of what is thought, its not always as you say, sometimes but not always.
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Doxiemom
Guest
Oh, I won’t.
I failed, I guess, in trying to make it clear that I was referring to the extreme types.
Please accept my apology to those whom I have offended.
I failed, I guess, in trying to make it clear that I was referring to the extreme types.
Please accept my apology to those whom I have offended.
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Kitty_Chan
Guest
Doxiemom no offense, just trying to share that some of its postive and theres a shortage of that in this ole world.
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