Communion of other faiths

[Grace_Seeker]

We didn’t have a New Testament until 405 AD.

We did, however, have all of the doctrines that the Church continues to teach well before then. (Indeed, many Protestants say that the Church began to “go astray” in the early 300s, because they recognize that the teachings of the Council of Nicea in 325 AD are so very Catholic.) These doctrines came out of the oral teachings of the Apostles; not from the Scriptures, since we didn’t have the Scriptures (meaning, all of the books in one place, translated into one language), as such, yet.

In fact, the reason it took so long to develop the New Testament was because they first needed to figure out what the doctrine of the Church actually was, in a systematic way, so that they would be able to discern which books actually belonged in the New Testament, and which ones did not belong there.

Doctrine came first - then the Bible. Not the other way around.

But all the parts of the NT were written in the first century, and from them developed the doctrines you speak of. Though, I will grant you that there are some doctines of the Catholic church that cannot be traced back to any books of the New Testament (or even Old Testament) canon.

 

[Mannyfit75]

But all the parts of the NT were written in the first century, and from them developed the doctrines you speak of. Though, I will grant you that there are some doctines of the Catholic church that cannot be traced back to any books of the New Testament (or even Old Testament) canon.

The parts of the NT were not put together in the first century it was not until the Synod of Rome in 382 AD, Council of Hippo 392 AD, and Council of Carthage in 396 AD and then finally Council of Florence.

The doctrines have their foundation in Scripture based on the interpretation of the Church.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

The parts of the NT were not put together in the first century it was not until the Synod of Rome in 382 AD, Council of Hippo 392 AD, and Council of Carthage in 396 AD and then finally Council of Florence.
.

TBDAQ

 

[jmcrae]

But all the parts of the NT were written in the first century, and from them developed the doctrines you speak of.

In tandem with, and subservient to, the rituals and prayers that were being passed down orally and safeguarded with the Bishops of the Church. Keep in mind, the original books were in several different languages, and only located in certain parts of the world. In Galatia, they knew nothing of the Letter to the Romans - but they did have the Mass, the Liturgy of the Hours, the seven Sacraments, and the Hail Mary. Likewise in Corinth, which knew nothing of the Letter to the Galatians, but had the same Mass, the same Liturgy of the Hours, the same seven Sacraments, and the same Hail Mary that they had in Galatia, and in every other part of the world, since these were brought to them by the Bishops, who had learned them at the feet of the Apostles and their successors.

Also keep in mind that the books that ultimately ended up in the New Testament were not the only books being written at the time - there were thousands of books then, just as there are now - but they lacked the printing press, and they lacked a system of distribution, so books written tended to stay in the area where they were written, and it was a long, slow, expensive process to get copies made - it was easier to transmit information through ritual and song than by means of books, back in those days.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

In tandem with, and subservient to, the rituals and prayers that were being passed down orally and safeguarded with the Bishops of the Church. Keep in mind, the original books were in several different languages, and only located in certain parts of the world. In Galatia, they knew nothing of the Letter to the Romans - but they did have the Mass, the Liturgy of the Hours, the seven Sacraments, and the Hail Mary. Likewise in Corinth, which knew nothing of the Letter to the Galatians, but had the same Mass, the same Liturgy of the Hours, the same seven Sacraments, and the same Hail Mary that they had in Galatia, and in every other part of the world, since these were brought to them by the Bishops, who had learned them at the feet of the Apostles and their successors.

Also keep in mind that the books that ultimately ended up in the New Testament were not the only books being written at the time - there were thousands of books then, just as there are now - but they lacked the printing press, and they lacked a system of distribution, so books written tended to stay in the area where they were written, and it was a long, slow, expensive process to get copies made - it was easier to transmit information through ritual and song than by means of books, back in those days.

I think it is interesting that you think that though they did not have the written word in every place, that they nonetheless had the same rituals. What kept these rituals in different places from differentiating from each other?

There is a modern Christian song quite prevelant in youth ministry “Pharoah, Pharaoh” I dare you to find any two Christian camps anywhere that do it exactly the same. As one travels from one to another, there is no doubt that they are all singing the same song. But each does it its own way, with its ritual adapted to the song. Putting a message in song and ritual is a way to widely disperse it. It is NOT a means to ensure that all practice exactly the same thing.

BTW, books were circulated then. Paul’s letter to the church at Colossae was not for just one congregation, but shared among several. The whole concept of a letter to the Galatians tells you that it was for many churches, not one, for Galatia was the name of a province, not a city.

 

[jmcrae]

I think it is interesting that you think that though they did not have the written word in every place, that they nonetheless had the same rituals. What kept these rituals in different places from differentiating from each other?

The Bishops in communion with the Bishop of Rome.

Even today, they go to visit the Pope once every five years, and then send letters out to their priests telling them what the Pope wants them to do.

There is a modern Christian song quite prevelant in youth ministry “Pharoah, Pharaoh” I dare you to find any two Christian camps anywhere that do it exactly the same. As one travels from one to another, there is no doubt that they are all singing the same song. But each does it its own way, with its ritual adapted to the song. Putting a message in song and ritual is a way to widely disperse it. It is NOT a means to ensure that all practice exactly the same thing.

i’m betting that you and I both know the same words to “Michael, Row the Boat Ashore,” though. The difference is that our youth leaders passed it on to us as-is, without getting “creative” with it.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

i’m betting that you and I both know the same words to “Michael, Row the Boat Ashore,” though. The difference is that our youth leaders passed it on to us as-is, without getting “creative” with it.

And if we didn’t, which one of us would be “right”?

Btw, what’s your favorite verse? Mine is:
“El Señor recusito. Al-le-lu-ya!”

 

[jmcrae]

And if we didn’t, which one of us would be “right”?

Me, of course.

Btw, what’s your favorite verse? Mine is:
“El Señor recusito. Al-le-lu-ya!”

I like that one, too.