Communion Patens

[Bob_Aliano]

The Church disagrees with you. I’d rather be on the side of the Church.

Wrong, the church does not disagree with that!

 

[Jegudiel]

Wrong, the church does not disagree with that!

Yes it does. The Church does not define receiving communion on one’s tongue as “proper” and in one’s hands as “improper.”

 

[paperwight66]

Yes it does. The Church does not define receiving communion on one’s tongue as “proper” and in one’s hands as “improper.”

Exactly. The claim was made that COTT was ‘the proper way’. This carries the connotation that anything else is ‘improper’. the Church does not say this.

Both COTT and CITH (i.e. in the hand) are ‘proper’.

 

[Steady_Eddy]

Hi paperwight66,

When you say “The Church disagrees with you” I’m not sure if that’s a reply to my comments about Communion on the tongue, or is it a reply to the initial thread?

I actually had a bit of a debate with a local priest recently; he was promoting Communion in the hand, and doing so from the altar of all places. I wrote him a letter, and we debated the issue for a while until I found a video on YouTube which settled the issue completely. I am giving you the link below to the video, but if you have any trouble finding it I will forward it to you

Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum

2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry.

 

[tradcathconvert]

Of course in the EF, COTT is mandatory. Here is a chance for me to correct my information if I am wrong about the OF. It has been my understanding, that COTT is the norm, and CITH is by indult. Is that right?

 

[YoungTradCath]

Of course in the EF, COTT is mandatory. Here is a chance for me to correct my information if I am wrong about the OF. It has been my understanding, that COTT is the norm, and CITH is by indult. Is that right?

Yes.

 

[Jegudiel]

Hi paperwight66,

When you say “The Church disagrees with you” I’m not sure if that’s a reply to my comments about Communion on the tongue, or is it a reply to the initial thread?

I actually had a bit of a debate with a local priest recently; he was promoting Communion in the hand, and doing so from the altar of all places. I wrote him a letter, and we debated the issue for a while until I found a video on YouTube which settled the issue completely. I am giving you the link below to the video, but if you have any trouble finding it I will forward it to you

Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum

2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry.

“Preferred” does not equate to “proper.” “COTT” is the normative form not requiring permission (an “indult”) as does “CITH.”

That in no way makes “COTT” in any ways superior to “CITH” within the Latin Rite of the Church

 

[paperwight66]

Hi paperwight66,

When you say “The Church disagrees with you” I’m not sure if that’s a reply to my comments about Communion on the tongue, or is it a reply to the initial thread?

I actually had a bit of a debate with a local priest recently; he was promoting Communion in the hand, and doing so from the altar of all places. I wrote him a letter, and we debated the issue for a while until I found a video on YouTube which settled the issue completely. I am giving you the link below to the video, but if you have any trouble finding it I will forward it to you

Communion Kneeling and on the Tongue is Preferred Form - Cardinal Arinze & Redemptionis Sacramentum

2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry.

I wonder if you have read the Pope’s latest book, ‘the Light of the World’? In it he states that he has ‘no problem’ with Communion n the hand, and that he has both given and received that way himself’.
He gives COTT at Papal Masses to avoid the disgusting possibility that someone could otherwise save the Host he gave them as a souvenir, and also to impress on those watching the holiness of the occasion (don’t forget, the Pope’s Masses are frequently televised).

I would take what the Pope says over the opinion of a Cardinal.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I wonder if you have read the Pope’s latest book, ‘the Light of the World’? In it he states that he has ‘no problem’ with Communion n the hand, and that he has both given and received that way himself’.
He gives COTT at Papal Masses to avoid the disgusting possibility that someone could otherwise save the Host he gave them as a souvenir, and also to impress on those watching the holiness of the occasion (don’t forget, the Pope’s Masses are frequently televised).

I would take what the Pope says over the opinion of a Cardinal.

I’m not arguing against you, but doesn’t the bolded imply thus that kneeling for Holy Communion is holier than standing?

 

[paperwight66]

I’m not arguing against you, but doesn’t the bolded imply thus that kneeling for Holy Communion is holier than standing?

No, it implies that the public, in general, is impressed by outward signs, and the Pope is aware that the Church needs to ‘stage-manage’ how church events appear to non-Catholics. The public in general would also prefer .Bells of St. Mary’s’ type goodlooking yet holy priests and nuns, in habits and soutanes at all times. They would ‘feel’ stone churches with stained glass are holier than a mission church with a corrugated roof, and, given the choice between a picture of a pretty little girl in a white dress to represent First Holy Communion and one of a teenager with spots or an old lady, would choose the little girl every time.

Image matters, to lead people to the deeper truths. But I would hope that most of us here are above needing that kind of symbolism.

 

[YoungTradCath]

No, it implies that the public, in general, is impressed by outward signs, and the Pope is aware that the Church needs to ‘stage-manage’ how church events appear to non-Catholics. The public in general would also prefer .Bells of St. Mary’s’ type goodlooking yet holy priests and nuns, in habits and soutanes at all times. They would ‘feel’ stone churches with stained glass are holier than a mission church with a corrugated roof, and, given the choice between a picture of a pretty little girl in a white dress to represent First Holy Communion and one of a teenager with spots or an old lady, would choose the little girl every time.

Image matters, to lead people to the deeper truths. But I would hope that most of us here are above needing that kind of symbolism.

Yeah, I can’t quite understand that. We are all creatures of sense, and when we pretend otherwise, well, we get into all sorts of messes, liturgical and otherwise. Don’t take that as meaning anything particularly against CITH, but in general. The Church needs to “stage-manage” everything She does, and not for some sneaky political reason (although that is part of it, as the Holy See is clearly a political as well as spiritual organization) but for the fact that we learn through symbols. We experience Tradition through tradition. Sure, we can learn all about the Saints and the Trinity and Mary’s Assumption and whatnot in a thick textbook or something, but that is not really how we learn; that is how we glean random facts. We learn through immersion, and immersion requires a nearly set-in-stone outward identity supported by a fully set-in-stone inward identity with prudence being the main criteria for discernment there. When we start junking outward symbols for some reason, then I bet every dollar I own that whatever organization that does so will start to dissolve in some way or another even if we make gains in some areas. Of course my point is far more ideological than it is specific. I’m not arguing about Communion patens. But wait, I am…

The greatest asset of any religion–and any organization, spiritual or temporal, for that matter–that is either very old or very large is a strong outward identity. As I said earlier, we experience Tradition, as in infallible Sacred Tradition, through tradition(s).

 

[centurionguard]

I’m not arguing against you, but doesn’t the bolded imply thus that kneeling for Holy Communion is holier than standing?

I think its how a Catholic sees the Real True Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist and disposes themselves according in the proper norm in the Latin Rite which is kneeling.

As Cardinal Arinze makes comment why don’t you keel, why don’t you crawl before receiving your Eucharistic Holy God. youtube.com/watch?v=Cc0g3UMRtMM

Is kneeling holier than standing before your God? Its a matter of humble disposition.

 

[centurionguard]

I not suggesting someone who kneels to receive the Blessed Sacrament does so thinking their holier than thou.

To me a sense of Awe has been lost in complacency in the Church when going up the receive the Eucharistic Lord and My God.

Making a symbolic comparison of Moses before the Burning Bush.

We Catholics go up to receive (“hopefully worthily”) the Eucharistic True Presence of Christ every time we go to Mass. But the big question should be asked of ourselves ("is it just an ordinary every Mass occurrence that Catholics get used to repeatedly going through the motions of every Mass?

In other words is not receiving the Eucharistic Christ into our souls something supernaturally (“new and refreshing”) every time we go up to receive worthily?

Consciously in Faith I surely have to contemplate this aspect.

 

[Steady_Eddy]

Hello again,

I came across another interesting video today. If you go to YouTube and type in the following. (THE VORTEX, Communion in the hand) you should find it okay.

2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry

 

[Steady_Eddy]

Hello again,

Found another interesting video today. Go to YouTube and type in the following (THE VORTEX, Communion in the hand) the comments underneath this particular video are very interesting also.

2 Cor 13:13
Eddy Barry