Communion question for Protestant Brothers and Sisters

[x4us]

The sixth chapter of John is understood differently by Catholics and Protestants. Catholics take Jesus’ teachings literally when He says, “this bread is my flesh, which I give for the life of the world” (6:51b) and “For my flesh is real food and my blod is real drink” (6:55).

Looking at those verses in their context, we see that Jesus’ teaching greatly upset the crowd. They took Him literally, and they were offended (according to OT guidelines, Jews were forbidden from eating or drinking blood). John 6:60-61 says, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it? Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, Does this offend you?"

The people who hear Jesus’ teaching agree that it is hard and wonder who could accept Jesus’ teaching. Jesus knows that He has offended His audience. In this chapter, all but 12 of the disciples desert Him, because they cannot follow the “hard teaching.”

My question for the Protestant brothers and sisters is: what is the offensive, “hard teaching” that the vast majority of Jesus’ disciples thought they could not accept? What Jesus taught in John 6 was a deal-breaker for almost everyone who followed Him, but Jesus stood firm, even if it meant only having twelve of the disciples remain w/ Him.

It is my contention that a symbolic feeding of believers is neither hard nor offensive. So what is the offensive, “hard teaching”?

 

[x4us]

I thought there’s be some replies to this. What do you think?

 

[Vi_Type]

The hard teaching are those of monergistic salvation as the context clearly shows.

60.) When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61.) But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62.) Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63.) It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64.) But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

and

29.) Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

and

37.) All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

and

44.) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day

 

[Tonks40]

x4us:

I thought there’s be some replies to this. What do you think?

They can’t really answer because they don’t read the doxology of the Eucharist in it’s whole and entire context. They pick and choose what they feel they can understand, and overemphasize it by saying, “Well, that’s what Christ really meant!”

Balony!

 

[NotWorthy]

Vi Type:

The hard teaching are those of monergistic salvation as the context clearly shows.

OK, I have no clue what you’re getting at. Can you help me out?

Notworthy

 

[I_A]

John 6:

53Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

**Many Disciples Desert Jesus **

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” 61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirite] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.”

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.

68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”

70Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

 

[x4us]

What is “monergistic” salvation?

 

[NotWorthy]

x4us:

What is “monergistic” salvation?

Isn’t that the stuff they are trying to take out of Chinese Food???

Help us out, here, VI!!!

Notworthy

 

[Aaron_I]

I think monergism is getting into the whole thomism vs molinism debate about predestination and grace. Monergism states that grace alone causes someone to have faith. This is correct, of course. Monergism also denies free will, if I understand it correctly, and here I would have to disagree. Personally, I find the distinction between sufficient and efficacious grace to be logical and biblical.

 

[x4us]

I know there are lots of Protestants who comment on apologetics topics - what are your thoughs on this question?