Communion Service: answers requested

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newguy40

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Hi-

A couple times per week (for the few months), I have been attending Mass at a local church that is not my Sunday parish. This parish has a morning Mass that is very convienent to my job. I also love the extra Masses too!

Anyway… I went this morning intending to attend the daily Mass. But, I did not know that the priests were all at a retreat. So, instead of a Mass there was a communion service.

I have never attended a communion service before today. My preference has always been to attend the Mass.

So…

The communion service seemed almost like a Mass. I was and am distubed. I wanted to ask for help here. Specifically, if these items that I will note below don’t follow the rubrics.
I have read thru the GIRM.

The man leading the prayer wore a white alb with large crucifx hanging from a chain.
He did say the rite of blessing.
He did lead the penitential rite.
Read the first reading and the responsorial psalm for today’s mass
And, read the Gospel for todays mass.
Read part of the communion rite (Sorry - by this time my mind was buzzing and I was a bit off).
Lead in the Lords Prayer
Lead in the Sign of Peace.
Gave the concluding blessing.

To me this had the feel of a Mass.

I asked one of the other attendees who I see at these Masses regularly if the man leading the prayer was a deacon. No.

I told her of my concern about how this felt like a mass and the man leading the prayer should not have done these rites. She told me that it was okay because this was a communion service and not a Mass so it was okay.

Am I correct in treating this as a violation of the GIRM?
Or, am I overly picky?
 
newguy40 said:
Hi-

Am I correct in treating this as a violation of the GIRM?
Or, am I overly picky?
Click to expand...
We on this board do not have enough information to make a correct judgement on whether or not the Communion Service that you attended was in any violation of GIRM. What we do know is that the local bishop should not easily grant that Communion Services be held especially if Mass is offered in that parish on a regular basis.
 
newguy40 said:
Hi-

A couple times per week (for the few months), I have been attending Mass at a local church that is not my Sunday parish. This parish has a morning Mass that is very convienent to my job. I also love the extra Masses too!

…
To me this had the feel of a Mass.

I asked one of the other attendees who I see at these Masses regularly if the man leading the prayer was a deacon. No.

I told her of my concern about how this felt like a mass and the man leading the prayer should not have done these rites. She told me that it was okay because this was a communion service and not a Mass so it was okay.

Am I correct in treating this as a violation of the GIRM?
Or, am I overly picky?
Click to expand...
There are 2 different issues here.

It is not permitted to have Communion services as a substitute for daily Masses. If a priest is available for Mass either on the Sunday before, or the Sunday after, then Communion services are not permitted. These are intended only to accomodate communities who have no priest available to them, and not circumstances where the priest is merely unavailable on a particular day.

As for the ritual itself, it does closely resemble a Mass. However, the person leading the service does not (indeed cannot) impart a blessing. A deacon can (and should) give the blessing at the end, but a layman does not attempt to bless, but instead concludes with “May the Lord bless us…” or one of the other forms, while making the sign of the cross on himself (never others).
 
FrDavid96 said:
It is not permitted to have Communion services as a substitute for daily Masses. If a priest is available for Mass either on the Sunday before, or the Sunday after, then Communion services are not permitted. These are intended only to accomodate communities who have no priest available to them, and not circumstances where the priest is merely unavailable on a particular day.
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Fr. David,

Can you please give me a citation for this?

In my diocese, while our priest population is aging rapidly, I would not consider us to be in a grave shortage. Actually, most parishes have at least one, if not more priests (both active and retired) that are available to say Mass.
For example there is a large suburban parish that offers 2 daily Masses, one very early in the morning and one in the late morning. There are 2 priests assigned to this parish and a retired priest who helps out occaisionally. More often than not, one the the 2 Masses is actually a “Communion Service” that is led by a deacon (this particular parish has 2) or by a lay woman.

This never seemed "kosher" to me, especially knowing that both priests are in the building at this time. 🤷
 
Thanks to you both for the quick responses.

I did do a search on this forum after I posted my original question. I noted that my confusion appears not to be uncommon.

Yes. There are regular masses on the previous and subsequent Sundays at this parish.
The diocese is medium sized but there is no lack of daily and Sunday mass options.

In all honesty, I do not specifically recall if the layperson signed himself or the congregation. Possibly he did neither.

Is there a particular church document that I can review the detail of what is or is not allowed within the communion service? Having seen a couple posts here on the same subject, it seems that there is not a detailed instruction.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Fr. David,

Can you please give me a citation for this?

In my diocese, while our priest population is aging rapidly, I would not consider us to be in a grave shortage. Actually, most parishes have at least one, if not more priests (both active and retired) that are available to say Mass.
For example there is a large suburban parish that offers 2 daily Masses, one very early in the morning and one in the late morning. There are 2 priests assigned to this parish and a retired priest who helps out occaisionally. More often than not, one the the 2 Masses is actually a “Communion Service” that is led by a deacon (this particular parish has 2) or by a lay woman.

This never seemed "kosher" to me, especially knowing that both priests are in the building at this time. 🤷
Click to expand...
Sure. See Redemptionis Sacramentum

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

adoremus.org/RedemptionisSacramentum.html#anchor316949

See also the paragraphs before this one.

If there’s a priest present in the building, then there’s no question about it, such services cannot be held. These services can be held only if it is “impossible” to have a priest say Mass.
 
Newguy, the Communion Service felt similar to a Mass because it has many elements of the Mass: 1) the Liturgy of the Word, i.e., a reading, a responsorial psalm, the Gospel; and 2) instead of the Liturgy of the Eucharist there is the Communion Service, i.e. the Our Father, receiving communion. What it does not have is the consecration. The communion that is received at a Communion Service are hosts previously consecrated at a prior Mass.
 
FrDavid96 said:
. . .

It is not permitted to have Communion services as a substitute for daily Masses. If a priest is available for Mass either on the Sunday before, or the Sunday after, then Communion services are not permitted. These are intended only to accommodate communities who have no priest available to them, and not circumstances where the priest is merely unavailable on a particular day.
. . .
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This is the ideal, but many places are rather slow in implementing it. Supposedly we are working toward having Morning Prayer any day there is not a priest available for weekday mass, e.g. the week they are all on retreat.
 
newguy40 said:
Hi-
… I told her of my concern about how this felt like a mass and the man leading the prayer should not have done these rites. She told me that it was okay because this was a communion service and not a Mass so it was okay.

Am I correct in treating this as a violation of the GIRM?
…
Click to expand...
The GIRM is the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. The Roman Missal is the book used for the Mass. But the book used to describe communion services is “Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass”.

I have a copy of this: Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass, published by E.J. Dwyer, Sydney, 1975, ISBN 0-85574-401-4.

Another book with it is: The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0.
 
Newguy40, the info from John Lilburne is correct and good. There is also one other little booklet that I have used. It is a booklet (7 pages) put out by the NCCB and published by the Liturgical Press at Collegeville, MN and was published in 1997.
A few years back I lived in Montana and we had a mission parish. Once in awhile our priest was not able to make the trip because of snow, ice, wind and very low temperatures or all of the above so we were proficient in the “Liturgy of the word with Holy Communion”. One thing we always tried to do was to use two people, one the leader and the other the reader and that is one thing the NCCB booklet pushes.
Maintaining a sense of decorum and sacredness is of the up most importance.
God Bless!!!
Norval
 
According to the the liturgical book “Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass”, published in Latin in 1973:

“II. THE TIME OF COMMUNION OUTSIDE MASS
16. Communion may be given outside Mass on any day and at any hour. It is proper, however, to schedule the hours for giving communion, with a view to the convenience of the faithful, so that the celebration may take place in a fuller form and with greater spiritual benefit. Nevertheless:
a) On Holy Thursday communion may be given only during Mass; communion may be brought to the sick at any hour of the day.
b) On Good Friday communion may be given only during the celebration of the passion of the Lord; communion may be brought at any hour of the day to the sick who cannot participate in the celebration.
c) On Holy Saturday communion may be given only as viaticum.”

“IV. THE PLACE OF COMMUNION OUTSIDE MASS
18. The place where communion outside Mass is ordinarily given is a church or oratory in which the eucharist is regularly celebrated or reserved, or a church, oratory, or other place where the local community regularly gathers for the liturgical assembly on Sundays or other days. Communion may be given, however, in other places, including private homes, when it is a question of the sick, prisoners, or others who cannot leave the place without danger or serious difficulty.”

In 1988 a further restriction was added. From the Directory for Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest, Chapter II “Conditions for Holy Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest”:
“21. It is imperative that the faithful be taught to see the substitutional character of these celebrations, which should not be regarded as the optimal solution to new difficulties nor as a surrender to mere convenience.
[footnote 20: See Paul VI, Address to bishops of Central France, 26 March 1977: AAS 69 (1977); “Proceed judiciously, but without multiplying this type of Sunday assembly, as though it were the ideal solution and the last chance” (tr., DOL 449, no. 3842).]
Therefore a gathering or assembly of this kind can never be held on a Sunday in places where Mass has already been celebrated or is to be celebrated or was celebrated on the preceding Saturday evening, even if the Mass is celebrated in a different language. Nor is it right to have more than one assembly of this kind on any given Sunday.”

The 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum is at vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html . It has a section “3. Particular Celebrations carried out in the Absence of a Priest”. It includes:
“[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday.”

In the end a decision must be made. The bishop needs to weigh up the considerations given in Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharist Outside of Mass:
“14. The faithful are to be led to the practice of receiving communion during the actual eucharist celebration.
Priests, however, are not to refuse to give communion to the faithful who for a legitimate reason ask for it even outside Mass. [footnote 2: See SCR, Instr. EuchMyst no. 33 a [DOL 179, no. 1262].
In fact it is proper that those who are prevented from being present at the community’s celebration should be refreshed with the eucharist. In this way they may realize that they are united not only with the Lord’s sacrifice but also with the community itself and are supported by the love of their brothers and sisters. …”.

Another consideration for the bishop may be indulgences. According to The Gift of the Indulgence (at vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_pro_20000129_indulgence_en.html ):

“4. A plenary indulgence can be gained only once a day. In order to obtain it, the faithful must, in addition to being in the state of grace:
— have the interior disposition of complete detachment from sin, even venial sin;
— have sacramentally confessed their sins;
— receive the Holy Eucharist (it is certainly better to receive it while participating in Holy Mass, but for the indulgence only Holy Communion is required);
— pray for the intentions of the Supreme Pontiff.” (My bold text.)

Decisions need to be made about what is a “legitimate reason” for a request for Communion and what is a “surrender to mere convenience”.

NewGuy40 wrote that in this case one person did everything. This is discouraged in the Redemptionis Sacramentum 165: “… It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration. …”.
 
In some dioceses (e.g., the Diocese of Baker, Oregon), these Communion services are forbidden. And they should be. They breed confusion.
 
Victorious said:
In some dioceses (e.g., the Diocese of Baker, Oregon), these Communion services are forbidden. And they should be. They breed confusion.
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The problem is that they are forbidden throughout the entire Church–in so many different ways, not the least of which is the fact that there is no permission to hold them in the first place; but they’re happening anyway.

The Church allows for this service only in the most extreme circumstances. We need more bishops like that who are willing to finally stand up and do what’s right rather than sit back and ignore these gross abuses. (and just in case anyone’s wonderring, yes, my bishop has also “forbidden” them, without his permission–and that only happens if there is a genuine need).
 
FrDavid96 said:
We need more bishops like that who are willing to finally stand up and do what’s right rather than sit back and ignore these gross abuses.
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Unfortunately, some bishops are not merely ignoring Communion services; some bishop are actually encouraging them.
 
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