Communion service instead of Sunday Mass?

[Solomonson]

In our Archdiocese, these Communion Services are not acceptable on weekdays, but on Sundays where no priest is available, these are wonderful for the parishes in need (and I find it appalling that anyone would refer to the Blessed Sacrament as a cancer).

Edit to add: it doesn’t seem like the OP’s parish meets the “need” requirement.

I did no such thing! My, my how you have attempted to spin my words! Shame on you!

I referred to the use of CSs in place of Masses when resources are available to celebrate the Mass as a “cancer.”

Communion services were implemented into my parish for two reasons. So my pastor could have Saturday morning off and so that laywomen could pretend.

 

[Solomonson]

I conduct CSs at least quarterly on overnight hiking trips. In fact I conducted one on the summit of Mt. Whitney – the highest point in the lower 48.

Hikers really seem to get something out of them – Catholic or not. Only Catholics can receive communion of course…

 

[Solomonson]

I’m pretty sure the “cancer” is supposed to be unnecessary (and perhaps repudiated) scheduling rather than than the object of the scheduling.

And none of us know the specifics of what is happening at the OP’s parish so we can only hope that what whatever they do will be done the way the Church envisions.

The “cancer” is scheduling CSs in place of Masses, even though the requirements for a Mass are available.

 

[Solomonson]

I think you’re being unfair. I doubt whether either the deacon or the laypeople were “pretending” anything. What they likely did do was to get out of bed early those days to serve the people of the parish as directed by their pastor and in a role that, at that time anyway, was sanctioned by their bishop.

I hope other parishes are different, but it got very bad in my parish. The vestments worn by the laity, the “preaching” that went on, the infighting over who was going to “celebrate” the CSs, etc., etc. became excessive.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

"Give father a break" from saying Sunday Mass? That sounds rather odd, doesn’t it?

“Does this fulfill the Sunday Obligation for Mass?” If there is no Mass available, then there is no obligation to attend Mass. The “Sunday Celebration in the absence of a Priest” is something to be done when there is no priest available, but it is not the same as the Mass.

No, not to me it doesn’t. Not at all.

I remember being in a fidei donum assignment when I contracted a bad infection. I was hospitalised. After discharge, the recovery was long. My lay collaborators did daily Communion Services until I was recovered but, for Sundays, I was brought to the church and said Mass seated throughout the whole synaxis…no homily, the extraordinary ministers distributing the Eucharist in my stead…and even then there were several times that my making it through the Mass was not a sure thing.

It was a very important life experience for me in all these subsequent years.

There were no other priests – this missionary diocese was already stretched as thin as possible…and even more.

Similarly here, depending upon the level of shortage in the diocese, taking action to ease the burden could prolong the priest’s active ministry.

Depending upon this priest’s physical condition, he may not be able to continue at the current pace and, like his predecessor, may have reached the point of his limit; there may indeed be need to figure out a reasonable path ahead that reduces his load.

Of course, the decision is ultimately the Bishop’s. But when I was in the chancery, I was grateful when lay members or Religious of a parish’s pastoral team would let me know if a priest was showing any signs of difficulties…they were with him on a daily basis and working alongside of him as part of the parish’s pastoral team, so their contact with him was more intense and in-depth than mine.

If anything, there was a tendency to wait too long to advise the diocese of warning signs that those with the priest on a daily basis chose to keep silent. There is little sadder than a priest who doesn’t want to raise an alarm but tries to shepherd on, the people see he is struggling but choose to say nothing to the diocese…and the Bishop ends up at the hospital bedside of a priest who suffered a stroke that might have been prevented if we’d only known the priest was unwell and had entered a health crisis…but instead the parishioners say they had seen warning signs and said nothing.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

American Rose , is your Priest aged? Ill? How many Masses and Parishes does he visit over Saturday night/Sunday? Is he the only Priest?

Does he get any days off?
We shouldn’t be commenting without knowing this. And then. Perhaps it’s between the priest and his Bishop.

Laity running communion prayer services during the week can work well. Not all laity are out to usurp the Priest , or functioning at the level of the alter ego.

It is incredibly uncharitable to say this , nor bring a personal agenda into this thread.

Very well said.

And your questions are right on point

We do know that he has two parishes.

In addition to the questions you have enumerated, another important question is how far apart are the two parishes and how arduous is the journey. Also does he have other responsibilities that should be taken into account.

 

[Rosebud77]

This will be seen more and more and I think the people need to support the problems being faced by the lessening of the numbers of priests

Limerick Diocese have already advised that very soon there will be Sundays when there are no Masses in many churches but a Prayer Service.

Are people planning to desert their parishes?

I live now in a remote and scattered Irish parish.

We have a new priest; he is Polish, young and a Divine Word missionary priest. He covers 4 scattered parishes and there are four masses, one at each church . 2 Vigil 2 Sunday

No midweek masses but there are within an easy drive.

He has also to be here for any funerals etc and as we have an ageing rural population they are common

It seems harsh if folk will not support the Church in these difficult times when new measures will be increasingly unavoidable

Perhaps Don Ruggero can assure re the “Sunday Obligation” concern that many are expressing?

And yes priests need a break … One who has just retired here was 85! Said he was finding it hard going…

 

[Rosebud77]

Keep meaning to ask

When I was last in hospital, it was Sunday and a Lay Minister brought communion round to all who wanted it

Why cannot this be done in Church? Distributing pre-Consecrated hosts?

 

[CB_Catholic]

Keep meaning to ask

When I was last in hospital, it was Sunday and a Lay Minister brought communion round to all who wanted it

Why cannot this be done in Church? Distributing pre-Consecrated hosts?

That is exactly what is done in Communion Services and Sunday Celebrations in the Absence
of a Priest.

 

[Rosebud77]

That is exactly what is done in Communion Services and Sunday Celebrations in the Absence
of a Priest.

OK so what then is the objection please?

As in

“Does this fulfill the Sunday Obligation for Mass?” If there is no Mass available, then there is no obligation to attend Mass. The “Sunday Celebration in the absence of a Priest” is something to be done when there is no priest available, but it is not the same as the Mass.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

OK so what then is the objection please?

As in

“Does this fulfill the Sunday Obligation for Mass?” If there is no Mass available, then there is no obligation to attend Mass. The “Sunday Celebration in the absence of a Priest” is something to be done when there is no priest available, but it is not the same as the Mass.

I understood the objection as two-fold:

1. It was a lay group in the parish trying to decide instead of priest and bishop.
2. It was for the priest’s convenience rather than necessity (and I’m not sure we have enough info about the priest/that situation for a clear understanding of that).

 

[OraLabora]

1. It was for the priest’s convenience rather than necessity (and I’m not sure we have enough info about the priest/that situation for a clear understanding of that).

We weren’t there, and we don’t know for sure it was for “convenience”. What the OP said was to “give the priest a break”. That might not be a matter of convenience, but of prudence or even necessity, if they are seeing signs that the priest is having a hard time keeping up with the load. It’s uncharitable to assume that "giving a break’ equates with simple “convenience”.

Parish priests don’t just celebrate Mass. They make sick calls, preside at funerals, counsel those who need counselling, do much of the pre-nuptial questioning, and help run the parish, to name a few. Now he isn’t doing this for just one parish, but for two. We have no idea how far apart the two parishes are, but imagine a priest so fatigued that he falls asleep at the wheel rushing to the next Mass.

I’m not a priest but I’ve been in situations where I was so tired from overwork that I came close to driving off the road from fatigue.

Why do people on CAF automatically have to assume the worst of people, in particular of our clergy? They are only human and doing their best with diminishing resources. I’ve been in work situations where mass layoffs meant that those who remained saw their workloads significantly increase. I fully understand if a priest in facing a similar increase in workload, coupled with advancing age, feels he needs a bit more slack in the schedule.

 

[CB_Catholic]

OK so what then is the objection please?

As in

“Does this fulfill the Sunday Obligation for Mass?” If there is no Mass available, then there is no obligation to attend Mass. The “Sunday Celebration in the absence of a Priest” is something to be done when there is no priest available, but it is not the same as the Mass.

I think the OP did not understand that there is no obligation to attend Mass if there is no Mass available. So the Sunday Celebration in the Absence of a Priest does not fulfill the obligation, because there is no obligation. But this is a service that can be offered so that people who are in that situation can still have a Liturgy of the Word, and receive Communion on Sundays
with their fellow parishioners, but are not obliged under pain of sin to do so.

I was under the impression that a group of lay people were at a meeting and discussing this possibility without the priest knowing about this, but I might have jumped to a conclusion. That is what I felt was not proper, as that is something the priest should be discussing with the Bishop, if needed, not the parishioners deciding the priest might need this.

 

[FrDavid96]

The use of Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest (SCAP) requires the permission of the bishop (unless it’s a genuine emergency)–either personally or through his vicar (eg vicar general or vicar forane).

My point is that in order for this proposed change to the schedule to become a reality, the bishop’s permission is required. Whatever questions need to be asked, and whatever circumstances need to be considered, will be asked and considered by the bishop.

People on an internet forum can only speculate as to whether or not this is necessary or appropriate.

Objectively, anyone can say that use of SCAP is not an equivalent of Sunday Mass. Objectively, anyone can say that SCAP does not fulfill the Sunday obligation; because it can be used only when meeting the Sunday obligation is physically or morally impossible, and therefore the obligation is lifted.

Some things for people to consider:

1. We only know that someone brought this up at a meeting. OK. Fine. People bring ideas to meetings all the time. That doesn’t necessarily mean it will happen.
2. We have no information on how the priest himself feels about this. Consider the possibility that when this idea is brought to the priest, he might say “Thanks for your concern, but let’s keep our priorities in order. I would appreciate some help with other things, but I’m not going to cancel Sunday Masses.” So before anyone accuses the priest of being lazy or not taking his own obligation to celebrate Sunday Mass seriously, remember that we know nothing about the priest’s own reaction to this idea.
3. If the priest does agree to this, he still needs the bishop’s permission. Therefore, anyone on CAF who might have concerns should trust that ultimately the bishop will make the right decision. If it’s not a good reason, he will say no. If he says yes, then we have to trust that there is a good reason.
4. It’s not fair to speculate that the priest is healthy or infirm; that he is old or young; that the 2 locations are far away or close. None of those assumption should be made, nor any others, for that matter.

Remember friends, except for the OP, no one here knows anything substantive about the situation. Speculating doesn’t do anyone any good.

 

[hcruz402]

Only if you have no other opportunities to attend a Mass. Otherwise, I suggest that you find another parish, if possible, and attend Mass, there, on those Sundays. Remember that you are not bound to any parish, to fulfill your Sunday obligations to attend Mass.

 

[jaimeleglise]

If the Mass had to be replaced out of necessity by a Communion Service, we could receive a dispensation on the obligation of attending Mass on Sundays and holydays if we could not attend a Mass somewhere else.

The problem lies not so much in fulfilling the obligation, but we would be missing out on many of the graces and benefits of the Mass. Please correct me if I’m wrong, those of you who are experts.

 

[CB_Catholic]

If the Mass had to be replaced out of necessity by a Communion Service, we could receive a dispensation on the obligation of attending Mass on Sundays and holydays if we could not attend a Mass somewhere else.

The problem lies not so much in fulfilling the obligation, but we would be missing out on many of the graces and benefits of the Mass. Please correct me if I’m wrong, those of you who are experts.

A dispensation is not necessary if there is no Mass available to attend. You can’t be dispensed from something that is not there. If there is a Communion Service, though, you would receive the graces from receiving Holy Communion, but you would not be obligated to attend the Communion Service.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

If the Mass had to be replaced out of necessity by a Communion Service, we could receive a dispensation on the obligation of attending Mass on Sundays and holydays if we could not attend a Mass somewhere else.

The problem lies not so much in fulfilling the obligation, but we would be missing out on many of the graces and benefits of the Mass. Please correct me if I’m wrong, those of you who are experts.

There seems. in this forum, to be a misunderstanding of dispensation with regard to the obligation to assist at Mass.

One seeks and receives a dispensation from the Mass obligation when one could attend Mass but one petitions to be allowed not to do so for a reason.

On the other hand “If the Mass had to be replaced out of necessity by a Communion Service” and one could not get to Mass, one is excused by that fact itself. If one is ill or caring for an infant, one does not have to seek a dispensation, as one is excused. If one is on a ship in the middle of the ocean with no Catholic priest aboard…the law does not oblige the impossible. There is no means by which the obligation could possibly satisfied in those circumstances.

Nothing can replace the Mass. If, however, Mass is unavailable then with SCAP one at least profits from being in the liturgical assembly, hearing the Scriptures proclaimed, offering praise to God, and receiving the reserved Sacrament, which is far more than spending moments of private prayer on one’s own. SCAP is a liturgy, with its particular graces and benefits…it is not a private prayer or a solitary devotion.

 

[corsair]

I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. We attend an FSSP parish with two priests. We have Masses 7 days a week. (twice on Sunday). Confessions before and during all Masses. Baptisms, weddings and Requiem Masses when needed.

Our old diocesan parish has been reduced to two Masses a week, Saturday Vigil and a Wednesday evening Mass. Parish attendance there has dropped to less than 100 per Mass. The choir dissolved and there are very few children. All this is why we transferred to the FSSP parish which is thriving. There were six parishes in the cluster served by two priests. CCD classes are almost non existent. Its a sad situation as our old parish was founded in 1838 and has a history of rebuilding. Perhaps someday again.

 

[Solomonson]

I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. We attend an FSSP parish with two priests. We have Masses 7 days a week. (twice on Sunday). Confessions before and during all Masses. Baptisms, weddings and Requiem Masses when needed.

Our old diocesan parish has been reduced to two Masses a week, Saturday Vigil and a Wednesday evening Mass. Parish attendance there has dropped to less than 100 per Mass. The choir dissolved and there are very few children. All this is why we transferred to the FSSP parish which is thriving. There were six parishes in the cluster served by two priests. CCD classes are almost non existent. Its a sad situation as our old parish was founded in 1838 and has a history of rebuilding. Perhaps someday again.

I guess I’m even luckier by your measure. I attend a diocesan parish with 4 priests and 3 Masses/day M-F (07:00, 12:15 and 7:00 PM), 2 on Saturday (07:00 and 6:00 PM) and 7 (07:00, 09:00, 11:00, 12:30, 3:00 PM, 6:00 PM and 7:00 PM) on Sunday.

And nary a one CS…