Communion Service on Sunday: question

[Jen7]

I am in a group hosting a women’s retreat at my parish next weekend. Traditionally the retreatants have their own Mass early on Sunday morning. This year however, the pastor is traveling and the associate pastor is unable to offer an early morning Mass for the women - he will be saying four Sunday Masses later in the day. So our retreat leader arranged for us to have a Sunday morning Communion Service instead. My concern is that she then told us THIS WILL FULFILL OUR SUNDAY OBLIGATION since the priest wasn’t available to say the early Mass. Could she possibly be right about this?? Please remember that Sunday Mass WILL be happening in the building - just not at a time that fits nicely with our retreat. I am uncomfortable believing that we are just excused from Mass, then. I feel we need to tell the retreatants they’ll need to find a Sunday evening Mass after the retreat ends. And those of us hosting the reteat will need to find an evening Mass once we finish cleaning up from the retreat. Is this correct?!

 

[Vico]

…

A priest could give a dispensation, but how about Saturday evening instead?

 

[Jen7]

The retreat is all day Saturday and most of Sunday. Saturday evening Mass would be very disruptive.

So a priest could theoretically have dispensed the retreatants?? The retreat leader would have asked him to do so, I’m guessing? How does that work?? I want to be sure she went through the correct channels if she’s going to be telling the ladies that our Communion Service “counts” for Mass.

 

[JohnLilburne]

I would not think I had satisfied the Sunday obligation by attending a Communion Service.

The Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic church has in the last appendix:

“The five precepts of the Church:

1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays …”.

There is more about the Sunday obligation in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) at http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm particularly 2180 to 2183.

Canon 1248 and CCC 2183 discusses what should happen if participation in the eucharistic celebration is impossible. It is clearly not impossible in the situation described.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Unless a priest gives a dispensation for this in advance, I’m not buying that a Communion service fulfills the Sunday obligation when it sounds like you have multiple Saturday evening and Sunday morning Mass options.

i also have no idea how you can put on a decent spiritual retreat with an attitude that Mass would be “disruptive.” There is not anything you could possibly be doing in that retreat that is more important than people attending Mass. Every Catholic retreat I have ever attended that ran even partly on a Sunday included a Mass, and most of the retreats I attended that weren’t on Sunday also included Mass as part of the retreat (there may have been one exception to this for a weekday retreat).

I’ll be honest, if you were giving a retreat on Sunday and it didn’t include a Mass but there was a Mass going on right there in the building in parallel with the retreat, I’d just walk out of your retreat, go to Mass and walk back in again after Mass.

 

[LateranBasilica]

Ask your Parish Priest. We cannot know what arrangements have been made and on that basis, could give you incorrect advice.

 

[thistle]

I am in a group hosting a women’s retreat at my parish next weekend. Traditionally the retreatants have their own Mass early on Sunday morning. This year however, the pastor is traveling and the associate pastor is unable to offer an early morning Mass for the women - he will be saying four Sunday Masses later in the day. So our retreat leader arranged for us to have a Sunday morning Communion Service instead. My concern is that she then told us THIS WILL FULFILL OUR SUNDAY OBLIGATION since the priest wasn’t available to say the early Mass. Could she possibly be right about this?? Please remember that Sunday Mass WILL be happening in the building - just not at a time that fits nicely with our retreat. I am uncomfortable believing that we are just excused from Mass, then. I feel we need to tell the retreatants they’ll need to find a Sunday evening Mass after the retreat ends. And those of us hosting the reteat will need to find an evening Mass once we finish cleaning up from the retreat. Is this correct?!

A Communion Service does NOT fulfill the Sunday obligation.

 

[poche]

I think it would be a better idea to rearrange your retreat schedule so that you could attend one of the regular masses as a group.

 

[angel12]

i also have no idea how you can put on a decent spiritual retreat with an attitude that Mass would be “disruptive.”

This! I go on a weekend retreat every year, and we have Mass both Saturday and Sunday. We wouldn’t have it any other way.
How on earth can Mass be “disruptive” to a Catholic retreat?

 

[thistle]

This! I go on a weekend retreat every year, and we have Mass both Saturday and Sunday. We wouldn’t have it any other way.
How on earth can Mass be “disruptive” to a Catholic retreat?

I agree with your comments.

 

[OraLabora]

A Communion Service does NOT fulfill the Sunday obligation.

True, but the obligation is waived in the case of impossibility to attend. However that does not appear to be the case here. It sounds like it only required some rearranging of the timetable of the retreat. Not knowing it’s nature makes it difficult to gauge how difficult that would be. A person attending could, however, ask for a dispensation from his/her pastor.

In situations where the communion service replaces Mass, it’s usually because no priest is available for a parish on a Sunday. So someone with transportation who is able to travel a reasonable distance, should do so to find a Mass. For those who are unable to travel, for instance a rural parish and no car, or someone with reduced mobility, there simply is no obligation to attend Mass if no priest is available where they are able to attend.

Same with bad weather, yesterday we had a wild blizzard and our road was not plowed until 11 am, the time of the last local Mass. And even then authorities asked everyone to stay off the roads. In such cases there is no obligation.

 

[Francis]

All this should be arranged in advance prudently ,There is nothing wrong to request priest from other religious congregations with due approval from the Parish Priest.1 Corinthians 14:40 but all things should be done decently and in order.

 

[TomH1]

No, a Communion Service does not fulfil the Sunday Obligation, only Mass does.

There is an obligation which must be fulfilled by going to Mass or there is no obligation.

If your retreat is in the same building where Mass is being celebrated there is no inconvenience so that will not excuse the obligation.

Your retreat leader cannot excuse you from the obligation.

Either the pastor or associate pastor can dispense your obligation on this occasion and I would check that he has.

I do not see how Mass can be disruptive to a retreat. It should be seen as very important. All it would require is a little re-scheduling.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

i also have no idea how you can put on a decent spiritual retreat with an attitude that Mass would be “disruptive.” There is not anything you could possibly be doing in that retreat that is more important than people attending Mass.

That was my thought as well. I’d also be someone who would leave the retreat for mass.

What an odd notion that mass could disrupt a spiritual retreat…

 

[Gorgias]

So our retreat leader arranged for us to have a Sunday morning Communion Service instead.

By rights, there shouldn’t be a Liturgy of the Word with Communion on a Sunday. Too much potential confusion. (And yes, I know that there are many priests of a certain age who are completely willing to schedule them.)

My concern is that she then told us THIS WILL FULFILL OUR SUNDAY OBLIGATION since the priest wasn’t available to say the early Mass. Could she possibly be right about this??

In principle, no. It’s not that “there’s no priest available” – in fact, he’s available and celebrating four Masses! What she’s trying to claim is that, since there isn’t a priest whose schedule matches yours, then the obligation is abrogated. That just ain’t so.

That being said, I’m sure there are many pastors out there who would make exactly that claim. It’s inaccurate, and it’s sad, but that’s the state of affairs today.

You know… you could just schedule the retreat around the local Mass schedule. That inconvenience (which is really all that’s in play here, when you get right down to it) might also raise awareness of the declining numbers of priests and the need for vocations. Wouldn’t that be a good thing, now…?

 

[Vico]

The retreat is all day Saturday and most of Sunday. Saturday evening Mass would be very disruptive.

So a priest could theoretically have dispensed the retreatants?? The retreat leader would have asked him to do so, I’m guessing? How does that work?? I want to be sure she went through the correct channels if she’s going to be telling the ladies that our Communion Service “counts” for Mass.

By canon law a pastor has this capability, but if not the pastor, then the bishop could also allow other priests to do so. It would be verbally given or in writing.

 

[Bluebright]

I’m sure you have your answer by now, how thoughtful of you to have asked and considered you retreatants . I am sorry there has been such harshness in response to your comment about the problems a Saturday mass would cause.

I hope you find a solution and manage to include mass somewhere in the schedule or adapt things somehow so that everyone has a chance to get to mass. I can only imagine how difficult arranging these things to fit everything in and how stressful it must be for you going between pastors and the leader and all. God bless you in your efforts.

 

[1ke]

Jen thanks for posting. There are just so many things awry here it’s hard to pick a place to start!

Thank you for being concerned!

So our retreat leader arranged for us to have a Sunday morning Communion Service instead.

This is not an appropriate application of the Directory for Sunday Celebrations without a Priest issued by the Congregation for Divine Worship.

See Chapter 2:
http://www.catholicliturgy.com/inde.../Index/2/SubIndex/11/ContentIndex/59/Start/55

You weren’t without a priest or without mass. It was totally inappropriate to do a communion service.

My concern is that she then told us THIS WILL FULFILL OUR SUNDAY OBLIGATION since the priest wasn’t available to say the early Mass.

She is not correct.

If you cannot get to mass, there is no obligation.

But that isn’t the case here. Everyone could have gone to mass.

But a communion service in no way fulfills the obligation.

just not at a time that fits nicely with our retreat.

In the future, plan your retreat around Mass time. I simply can’t fathom a Catholic religious retreat that doesn’t include mass or places it in lesser priority than Mass. In fact, I’d be unlikely to return to such a retreat.

The retreat is all day Saturday and most of Sunday. Saturday evening Mass would be very disruptive.

I’d really encourage you to examine this statement and see how at odds that is with “Catholic retreat”.

Mass should be the priority and everything else planned around it.

So a priest could theoretically have dispensed the retreatants??

Not any priest. Their pastor or the pastor in the place they find themselves.

want to be sure she went through the correct channels if she’s going to be telling the ladies that our Communion Service “counts” for Mass.

There are no channels that can make a communion service “count” as mass, because it simply cannot. Ever.

I’m appalled that the pastor allowed a communion service when there clearly was NOT a lack of sacred ministers, and appalled that the retreat leader didn’t know better.

 

[Jen7]

THANk you all so, so much for these thoughtful replies!! I want to add a couple more details and a questions:

The format of this retreat hs been “set” for 15 years at our parish & the retreat is a “progression” such that the timing for the 7am Mass was carefully selected. Just having the retreatant go to 9am Mass with the parish community would mess up the entire “thrust” of the weekend. I don’t say this as an excuse to skip Mass and do a CS instead… I say it because I am not the leader and I will be making the retreat leader pretty grumpy if I demand a schedule change or just walk out to attend the 9am Mass myself (I am the event emcee so this would be extremely disruptive of me to do). I am happy to do it for the Lord, though! And if the CS really doesn’t “count” then I WILL do it. But I want to be sure I NEED to because it wil ruffle a lot of feather and disrupt the beauty and flow of this weekend. (It is just really a shame the leader can’t find a priest to say 7am Mass for our retreatants!)

So… I have reached out to the retreat leader. If she says the CS was approved to stand in for Mass (and yes, I know it SHOULDNT be) am I still required to buck the system and either quit emceeing the retreat for an hour (leaving my job on someone else’s shoulders) or DEMAND that we redo the entire schedule to jam in Mass (and it WILL feel that way even though it shouldn’t)?

Basically my question is this: given the presence of three Masses on site during our retreat CAN a priest truly dispense us from attending?? If he CAN I will still sneak off to Mass on Sunday night myself. But if he CANT I need to ruffle a lot of feathers to either go to Mass during the retreat (showing the ladies I value Mass) or demand a schedule reworking so we can ALL go to Mass).

Is that any clearer??

Thanks again for all your time!! I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the replies!!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

will be making the retreat leader pretty grumpy

This retreat leader sounds frankly like they are leading Catholics down a very wrong path. I would question whether such a person should be in charge of retreats.

I think you need to ask your pastor about this potential dispensation and follow what he says. If he gives a dispensation and it’s wrong, the responsibility is on him, not on the retreatants who follow his guidance in good faith.